# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/281 "2016-01-10T21:15:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Geller is a known liar and hate promoter. Can you find any support for her claims in an independent source? same question to you. Did she kill anyone? Did she own slaves? Did she issue any fatwas? did she punish anyone for leaving a religion? I’ll research her and answer your question when you answer mine about Mohammad. If we’re nailing people to a cross lets get to the root of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/282 "2016-01-10T21:35:14Z")
What a person who lived over 1400 years ago has to do with Tunis in 2015 or the hateful bigot and well known extremist racist Geller is puzzling. Doubtless because I am muslim it is thought that insulting the Prophet is a nice gambit to troll me, but since I am not practicing at all, I am just amused by sad gambit undertaken out of prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/283 "2016-01-10T22:02:57Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > What a person who lived over 1400 years ago has to do with Tunis in 2015 or the hateful bigot and well known extremist racist Geller is puzzling. Doubtless because I am muslim it is thought that insulting the Prophet is a nice gambit to troll me, but since I am not practicing at all, I am just amused by sad gambit undertaken out of prejudice. If you could have explained it to the terrorists beforehand that would have been swell. If you find the practices of Mohammad insulting that’s your issue. It goes a long way to explain the crazy behavior over cartoons/movies and aligns with the mindset that people who leave the religion should be punished. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/284 "2016-01-10T22:09:17Z")
Sad. Maybe if they banned the fantasy based extremist organizations in the USA and their fantasies around the guns we would see the USA invading less places and starting less wars of aggression, it might reduce the violent cowboy ideology. voilia, interesting way to think, this illogic ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/285 "2016-01-10T22:33:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > same question to you. Did she kill anyone? Did she own slaves? Did she issue any fatwas? did she punish anyone for leaving a religion? Irrelevant to your claim when you cited her to"prove" Islam was forcing all Muslim women into restrictive dress. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’ll research her and answer your question when you answer mine about Mohammad. So you have no independent confirmation of her claims and are going to go haring off on one of your “Let’s bash Mohammed” rants to avoid addressing your claims. Noted. > [@Magiver](#): > > If we’re nailing people to a cross lets get to the root of the problem. Your persistent efforts to blame Islam and Mohammed for all problems precludes you from recognizing the root of any problem. Not a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/286 "2016-01-10T22:37:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You posted a picture of how tolerant the dress code was in Tunis. You can’t get more tolerant than the beach. And you can’t get any less tolerant of people then by randomly slaughtering them. > > I don’t know who Pamela Geller is. Has she killed anybody or talked about killing anybody? \*\*Has she issued any fatwas? \*\* That’s where bigotry meets the pavement. And in that respect there is a massive disconnect within the religion of Islam. People are killing in the name of the religion. They do this based on the words and deeds of Mohammad. So if you judge Geller a bigot then how is Mohammad’s lifestyle of slave owner, polygamist, warlord/imperialist to be judged? And by extant, his followers? Why should anyone be surprised when the nuttiest of his followers emulate his behavior. The mere act of punishing people for leaving the religion is the ultimate act bigotry and intolerance. (bolding mine) You’ve been on the Dope for more than ten years, discussed Islam in I don’t know how many threads and you still have utterly no idea what a fatwa is do you? It’s merely an answer to a question given by a someone considered a religious scholar. Most are frankly rather boring but sometimes you can get some interesting ones. I don’t know if it’s still up, but the Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani had a whole pile up on his website up responding to readers and I used to get a kick out of reading them and shocking co-workers and friends who tended to have this impression of Arabs been these prudish, repressed. people. I remember one in which a housewife in Baghdad asked a question that I doubt few Catholic priests or Rabbis have been asked. She asked if, too show her appreciation and love for her husband, could she give her husband a blowjob. I suspect that most Anglican ministers or Reform Rabbis would have turned several shades of pink and ran away as quick as they could, but Sistani merely replied “Yes, so long as no fluid enters the mouth, it is permissible”. He was also another time asked a question by a man away from his wife, quite lonely, and who said he was terrified he’d wind up cheating on his wife if he was not allowed to, as the kids like to say, “spank his monkey” and if that would be okay. Sistani’s reply, paraphrased was, “Yes, you can choke your cobra if doing so will help you avoid engaging in adultery and remain faithful to your wife.” Not all fatwas are “SLAUGHTER THE UNBELIEVERS! KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU SEE THEM! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH, AIIIIIII!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/287 "2016-01-10T22:42:32Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > And German girls are sunbathing in public parks and beaches, topless and wearing very little? I think its imperative that German girls start wearing burquas, so as not to offend these refugee’s sense of morality. Whereas no one on beaches in Muslim countries wears bikinis. [https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3189/3081464507\_b9ff23f739.jpg](https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3189/3081464507_b9ff23f739.jpg) [http://blogbaladi.com/images/banet-425x250.jpg](http://blogbaladi.com/images/banet-425x250.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/288 "2016-01-10T23:43:22Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > More like getting your arm broke then being told, “Well I’m very sorry about that, but you have to remember the man that did it once sustained 50% burns to his body”. How is that reassuring or even helpful? I have no idea where you’re getting this. MY point is that rape is not the worst of all possible fates. We need to get away from that notion. Now, that said, it’s still a terrible thing to happen to a person. Being sexually molested/assaulted is also bad, but it’s not as bad as, say, slowly choking to death on poison gas while watching your children do the same, or having your limbs blown off, or being deliberately starved to death, all things which have been happening in Syria the last couple years which is why something like 2 million people have risked death by drowning and various other bad things in order to get the hell away from Syria. That would include some people who are criminals because criminals don’t like poison gas, IED’s, and starvation either. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/289 "2016-01-11T00:22:30Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > _ **Rather telling? Need to?** _ **What complete excusing bullshit.** It is simply that Broomstick has already linked to the source that easily from wiki had other links to other incidents - not something I “had to” go to, it was provided conveniently, it is showing within a highly regimented Western culture institution, the repeated problem. This is merely the answer to the essentiallist culture rubbish asserted by the bigotted, who race to this every time. If the Western or the American culture was somehow more advanced about “rape” then it should not be a case that such a thing returns again and again in that highly controlled environnement. But it does. > > Of course Broomstick has already provided another link to non military incident almost exactly the same as Cologne - I can expect her as american to know these incidents better than me. > > But of course for every example there is some contextualizing excuse why it is not a pan amerian culture issue. So it is equally in other contexts that the non-hypocritical non bigots can realize if they reflect and think It’s the usual practice of “othering” the bad guys - oh, it’s not OUR people doing it, it’s those foreigners! Oh, wait, our air force molested people? Well, they’re military, that’s the reason! Basically, anything to distance the speaker from the criminal element, as if sharing some random trait with a criminal makes one also a criminal, rather than whether or not one is engaging in criminal behavior. > [@](#): > > It is not “whataboutism” it is “anti-hypocrisy” - no need for the other examples if they do not write sweeping claims. ^ This. > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > From all the statistics I have seen in the last months, not a single breakdown mentions single women. A small number of families, unaccompanied minors, but mainly young men. This coincides with my personal observations, but that would of course be very random and subjective. It’s not unusual for refugees fleeing a war zone to be disproportionately male for the simple reason that men are stronger than women and are less likely to be targeted by other men (which is not to say men are _never_ targets, just less often than women). Even more extreme than the current wave entering Europe from the MENA, of the 4000 Sudanese refugees taken into the US in 2000 only 89 were women. Why? In Sudan women are more likely to either be killed or taken captive/sold into slavery than the men are, with the result there are many fewer girls/women escaping the region than boys/men. I’m not certain of all the obstacles faced by the MENA refugees at present, but there may well be factors skewing the demographics. > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > I can unequivocally agree with this. And for the refugees who have already arrived: A safe haven for the time being, shelter, but no expectation to settle permanently. > [@Hiker](#): > > Why not use permanent residency as an incentive for integration? Uh, yeah, why bar them from permanent settlement? The US has done pretty well with accepting refugees under the assumption they’ll become _citizens_, not just permanent residents. Not all do, and we have to deal with some that turn out to be criminals, but honestly, very few refugees and asylum seekers ever managed to go “home” again, they need to be able to make a new life and a future for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/290 "2016-01-11T02:28:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Uh, yeah, why bar them from permanent settlement? The US has done pretty well with accepting refugees under the assumption they’ll become _citizens_, not just permanent residents. Not all do, and we have to deal with some that turn out to be criminals, but honestly, very few refugees and asylum seekers ever managed to go “home” again, they need to be able to make a new life and a future for themselves. Jordan has the ability to house the refugees. They don’t necessarily have the funds. Send them to Jordan and help with their care. It keeps them closer to home. That provides a better option to reintegrate them back to their homeland. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/291 "2016-01-11T02:33:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Jordan has the ability to house the refugees. They don’t necessarily have the funds. Send them to Jordan and help with their care. It keeps them closer to home. That provides a better option to reintegrate them back to their homeland. Ok, I nearly pissed myself laughing at this. Jordan already has huge numbers of refugees. You do realize that roughly 60% of their population are Palestinians don’t you? If not, perhaps you should do more research before making such comments. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/292 "2016-01-11T02:45:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, the problem is MEN. Hey, a fellow misandrist. Is there a secret handshake or something? One interesting angle to this is how many people are saying the West should only accept women and children refugees. Basically admitting men are degenerate. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/293 "2016-01-11T03:16:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > (bolding mine) > > I remember one in which a housewife in Baghdad asked a question that I doubt few Catholic priests or Rabbis have been asked. She asked if, too show her appreciation and love for her husband, could she give her husband a blowjob. I suspect that most Anglican ministers or Reform Rabbis would have turned several shades of pink and ran away as quick as they could, but Sistani merely replied “Yes, so long as no fluid enters the mouth, it is permissible”. you’re probably right that they would turn various shades of red but then we differ on the definition. I would describe it as foreplay. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > He was also another time asked a question by a man away from his wife, quite lonely, and who said he was terrified he’d wind up cheating on his wife if he was not allowed to, as the kids like to say, “spank his monkey” and if that would be okay. Sistani’s reply, paraphrased was, “Yes, you can choke your cobra if doing so will help you avoid engaging in adultery and remain faithful to your wife.” > > Not all fatwas are “SLAUGHTER THE UNBELIEVERS! KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU SEE THEM! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH, AIIIIIII!!!” Good examples of the range of fatwas. Yes I think most of us are aware of them as this is the age of the internet. And as usual these discussions portray everything at it’s furthest point and are thus taken to represent the entire discussion. But I was referring to the fatwas regarding blasphemy. I shouldn’t have to spell it out each time I use the word because (as you’ve pointed out) this is not the first discussion of the subject. It should be understood that is what I’m referring to. It is a reality of the religion. At this point in history we have a conundrum with Islam. A better than 50% majority of it’s practitioners aren’t living on the corner of Crazy and Caliphate Street. However there are a significant number of those who subscribe to an extremely violent version as to how it should be practiced. And due to the rather flat structure of the religion there is no easy way for a Martin Luther event to occur to realign the religion into a more cohesive element. It’s rather difficult for those who prefer the peaceful side of the street to dictate terms to the crazy side. It’s more difficult when you live in another neighborhood entirely. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/294 "2016-01-11T03:18:36Z")
Weeeeelllllll, some of us are degenerate, especially when we’ve been drinking. So, now that this thread has gone on for six pages, can we go back to the real reason this occurred? There was a bunch of hicks from the sticks, first time away from Mommy, all liquored up. A frat party writ large. Or Halloween at Southern Illinois University writ not particularly large. Not a 9/11. Not exclusive to Muslims. Just “boys will be boys, so keep the water cannon and tear gas handy.” Had this been a repeat of Cologne’s football hooligan and neo-Nazi riot nobody in the US would’ve heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/295 "2016-01-11T03:22:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, I nearly pissed myself laughing at this. > Jordan already has huge numbers of refugees. > > You do realize that roughly 60% of their population are Palestinians don’t you? yes I do. Which means there has always been a Palestine. It just has a different name. But as you know they already house Syrians there in the Zaatari refugee camp. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/296 "2016-01-11T03:30:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you’re probably right that they would turn various shades of red but then we differ on the definition. I would describe it as foreplay. Huh? You think a woman asking a religious scholar if blow jobs are allowed constitutes foreplay? With all due respect and let me double down and make it clear that no insult is intended, but have you ever had sex with a woman? :dubious: I ask because I genuinely can not see how a woman sending an e-mail to an Iraqi version of “Dear Abbey” could be viewed as foreplay. Perhaps you can enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/297 "2016-01-11T03:33:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes I do. Then your post is truly bizarre. Perhaps you could explain. > [@](#): > > Which means there has always been a Palestine. It just has a different name. Are you attempting to be profound? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/298 "2016-01-11T03:38:01Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Hey, a fellow misandrist. Is there a secret handshake or something? > > One interesting angle to this is how many people are saying the West should only accept women and children refugees. Basically admitting men are degenerate. Nah, just admitting it’s a safer bet. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/299 "2016-01-11T03:42:02Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Huh? > > You think a woman asking a religious scholar if blow jobs are allowed constitutes foreplay? > > With all due respect and let me double down and make it clear that no insult is intended, but have you ever had sex with a woman? :dubious: > I ask because I genuinely can not see how a woman sending an e-mail to an Iraqi version of “Dear Abbey” could be viewed as foreplay. > > Perhaps you can enlighten me. :smack: No the act as described by Sistani is foreplay in my book. If you want to start a discussion of what constitutes a BJ then feel free to start a thread on it. I think it’s been done before. I’m not going to argue over it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/300 "2016-01-11T06:05:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Islamic meaning nothing more than having parents from Pakistan or Bangladesh (and not Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc.) with no actual evidence that they participated in Islam. > > Where the Christian and Christian-raised secularists covered their asses to avoid doing paperwork or because they figured the girls brought it on themselves. The ass covering, imo, is almost as bad. But it was for political reasons not pure laziness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=16)