# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/341 "2016-01-12T08:01:11Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > I didn’t say that, unless we use the definition supplied by the immortal Ambrose Bierce: Let’s forego the poor man’s Sam Clemence, and use a dictionary instead: “one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance” So do you accept she displays hatred and intolerance towards Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/342 "2016-01-12T08:22:48Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Sadly, that site was one of the first large ones to report on the attacks in Cologne. In fact, [it looks like they broke the story.](http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/04/revealed-1000-migrants-brawl-rape-sexually-assault-steal-one-german-train-station-new-years-eve/) What was that you were saying about Liberal tolerance of fascism? I don’t follow Breitbart news. The whole story really exploded in Germany last Monday (January 4th) afternoon with a press conference by the (now deposed) chief of police in Cologne, Wolfgang Albers. He mentioned the breathtaking number of 1,000 and more attackers in and around Cologne main station. I literally dropped my tea-cup when I heard this. Since this would obviously be a major international news story, I checked the English version of Google News and the only article that showed up was the one by Breitbart. The report was accurate and it summed up what was known and being reported by German news media (after days of silence or at least under-reporting). Maybe Breitbart has a chequered reputation, but they sure enough got this one right. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/343 "2016-01-12T08:44:06Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > That is completely irrelevant to my question. First of all, I have never “attacked, killed, or detained” anyone on any basis. Secondly, I personally am about the same colour as most Arabs. Your claimed personal color has nothing at all to do with the common reality of anti-islamic bigots acting on a racial basis and attacking persons of a racial profile who they believe to be muslim due to their racial appearance, although they are not. The pretension that waiving the dictionary around to excuse the reality is a hypocritical and sad and pitiful. Even more pitiful is the idea of using a irrelevant personal angle as if this comments on a wider phenomena. > [@](#): > > So let me ask you a question. If I, a brown-skinned gay atheist, were to be put to death by a light-skinned Muslim in one of the many Muslim countries where they execute homosexuals, would I have a right to accuse that light-skinned Muslim of “racism”? 😃 You would be pathetic and a drama queen if you did an extending of an absurd and pathetic internet board demarche - since of course there is not a constant association of the gay man with any skin color or any race in particular which the bigots act upon in violance. Unlike with the muslims, such that Sikhs and other non-muslims sharing an associated racial appearance with many of us have been attacked and murdered many many times-particuarly in north america. > [@Magiver](#): > > sailed over your head and is now orbiting the planet. The Tunis attacks had a religious basis to them and were focused on killing random people based on the hate constructed from the religion. I see you show as much logic and as much reason as in the fantasies of the parachuting moto-squads of benghazi scenarios… There is no logic outside of the merely boiling illogic of hatred in responding to the question of actual pictures of real women wearing ordinary clothes in the cities of casablanca and tunis by linking to a terror attack, _not in Tunis at all but over a hundred kms away_… Yes this shows a nice hateful non-logic like linking to an abortion clinic terror attack by one of those right wing christianist extremist white men (and it seems by the SPLC supporters usually of the CCW etc) when someone speaks of New York etc. Obviously so very relevant to the subject of the local women clothing and no law against the western clothing - particularly the Sousse attack where the attacker did not attack Obviously in any thread about American gun control, any terroristic use of the guns by the right wing white american men is fully relevant and speaks greatly to all the right wing american men who may support the carrying of weapons, ETC. > [@Magiver](#): > > Good luck citing that I made such a statement. The entire dress code exchange started with Ramira’s knee-jerk response to billfish678’s premise that “Jesus sucks” would not get noticed in a Western country but “Mohammad sucks” would get you arrested in an Islamic country. **This is your fiction and funnily enough purely knee jerking by you** Or complete inability to read through the seething hatreds and the ideological blinders. My post was in response to that person’s idiot sweeping about women and clothing - the only thing I have commented re that posters silly religious comments is the prejudiced / ignorant stupidity of sticking in allah in his phrases for God in English to signal his commenting on the muslims, as the Arabic speaking of all the monotheistic religions, the _ **Jews** _, the _ **Christians** _, the _ **Bahai** _ etc. use Allah to mean only simply the one God. the stupid word substituting demarche to poke at the muslims is childish, ignorant and insults the other arabic speakers. But is typical of course of a certain profile Here is the source of the dress code > [@billfish678](#): > > If you wanna compare stuff like that to **being jailed or worse for wearing the wrong thing,** …: **Emphasis added.** > [@](#): > > It was never about any dress codes promoted by Islam. Try reading next time before inventing completely false assertions. > [@](#): > > She then used Tunis as some kind of Example of Islamic dress. Tunis and Casablanca actual live examples of ordinary people. Oh the horror of having live examples of reality instead of Stereotypes. > [@](#): > > I pointed out when I think of Tunis I think of the terrorist attacks of recent years. Yes what great non-logic… It is so logical to attach Tunisian women wearing ordinary clothes to Terrorism… > [@](#): > > You’re persistence in making excuses for the acts of Mohammad a the actions, claimed, asserted, or whatever, of the Prophet over 1400 years ago, like the actions of Jesus or the actions of the other Jews of the period have not one thing to do rationally, outside of a generalized hatred, with the modern writings of a hate-promoting modern bigot. The idea there is a link to be made only makes it not at all surprising that the person writing this sources such people, and it becomes amusing in a sour and disgusted fashion, claims of ignorance… > [@sqweels](#): > > From here: [http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/11/taharrush/](http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/11/taharrush/) Oh so excellent the source repeats partially the Egyptian phrase and uses the sly language to imply the grand general problem of the “arab world” Of course what can be more fun to render the simple phrase “group harrassement” (taharrush gamaie is simply that, group harrassement and tahharush, harrassement, in the Cairo/egyptian dialect form) as more Alien more Othering more prejudicial than taking the simple word and giving it the Exotic flavor. So \*\*\*Harrassement \*\*\*of Women by Men is a known phenomena. Indeed. Of course it would be unknown in the western culture, it would never be seen videos of men groping, whistling, harrassing women on the streets of New york even. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/344 "2016-01-12T08:49:54Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Of course, the law-abiding majority of the migrants/refugees immediately turned the offenders in to the police. how would such persons do that? > [@](#): > > Silence still means complicity. Or it means not knowing or it means… any number of things. This is truly a stupid demarche for promoting the prejudiced attitudes… It presumes knowledge of a specific act, it presumes a migrant themself even would know later to identify another person possibly never seen before… ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/345 "2016-01-12T09:12:13Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The ones getting the worst deal of all are the ex-Muslims/gay Muslims ect who are victims of right wings racism and thuggery just for looking brown or Asian, and, as always, under attack from the talibros in their own communities, all while the deluded regressive liberals knock each other over in a frantic scramble to prove that they are more tolerant of fascism than each other, as long as the fascism comes from those with the ethnic flavor their virtue signalling requires. > > It’s not encouraging to see them [talking each other out of supporting the far right](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/40ilrv/pakistanis_and_syrian_attacked_by_german_gangs/cyuey4q), and having a difficult time of it because their aren’t real worthwhile options as far as movements that stand up for them. One of the reasons where I support the EDL is their support for Gay, Lesbian, Transgender groups. The far right groups who attack the gay community and any group who are none white are every bit as bad as the Nazi’s, the problem is that we are also starting to see far right Muslim groups exercising the same foul discrimination ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/346 "2016-01-12T09:23:06Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Judaism is a religion, Israel is a state, israel she did not mention and has not one thing to do with Broomstick’s comment. she refered to the reality of the Jews being called, referred to and treated as a race by the bigots and the racists despite the same reality of the multiple phenotypes of Jews just like the muslims. It is not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/347 "2016-01-12T09:38:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Imagine if someone said: > _“I do it all the time. As someone who was once robbed by a black man, and whose cousin was once stabbed in school by a black teenager, I am of the mind to assume guilt until proven innocent. It’s not “fair” to all black people, but it’s how you place your bets. African Americans have a high rate of per capita violent crime. Simple facts, and if it hurts your feelings as a black person that I don’t trust you, too bad.”_ I think what dropzone is saying that like me he has been around the block more than once without breaking any laws and has seen what a terrible place the world can be. the problem is not race it is a mix of young men and alcohol. I have three daughters who are now all grown up I always used to pick them up and drive then home of a night time. I am still trundling around that block with all its problems trying to make where I live a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/348 "2016-01-12T09:52:15Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > anti-islamic bigots Opposition to bad ideas is not bigotry, and using accusations of bigotry to deflect criticism of dangerous ignorance is morally indistinguishable from propagating the dangerous ignorance yourself. > [@](#): > > Of course it would be unknown in the western culture, it would never be seen videos of men groping, whistling, harrassing women on the streets of New york even. The Muslim world is much worse for women than the West. This is due to many factors, including some bad ideas from within Islamic texts and traditions. These include but are not limited to: teachings that women are less intelligent than men, that their testimony is worth less, that they are temptations to men that should be covered, that they are unclean, that they should be beaten when disobedient, and that they may be enslaved and raped. It is no surprise then, that migration of huge numbers of people from Muslim countries results in an epidemic of mistreatment of the women living in areas where Muslims migrate to en masse. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/349 "2016-01-12T10:00:11Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But there isn’t an organised Christian terrorist entity in the Western World which is actually propagating followers to go out and massacre infidels. As mentioned previously, the Lord’s Resistance Army did precisely that while claiming to be Christian, from 1987 to the present day. They’re small fry now, but in their hey day they were killing tens of thousands per year, as well as engaging in mass scale Rape as warfare, enforced child soldiers, kidnappings, and ethnic cleansing. For some reason no-one expected all christians to apologise on their behalf, just accepting they were a bunch of psychotic scum. Funny that. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/350 "2016-01-12T10:02:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Of course what can be more fun to render the simple phrase “group harrassement” (taharrush gamaie is simply that, group harrassement and tahharush, harrassement, in the Cairo/egyptian dialect form) as more Alien more Othering more prejudicial than taking the simple word and giving it the Exotic flavor. > > So \*\*\*Harrassement \*\*\*of Women by Men is a known phenomena. Indeed. What happened is far beyond simple harassment. [Op-Ed in New York Times calls for Merkel to step down](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/opinion/sunday/germany-on-the-brink.html). ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/351 "2016-01-12T10:06:57Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > israel she did not mention and has not one thing to do with Broomstick’s comment. she refered to the reality of the Jews being called, referred to and treated as a race by the bigots and the racists despite the same reality of the multiple phenotypes of Jews just like the muslims. > > It is not that hard. It is not hard to understand. Many people think of Judaism and the State of Israel as a whole they are not, You should not call people bigots and racists because they do not understand the division between the state of Israel and Judaism the religion ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/352 "2016-01-12T10:11:20Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > It is not hard to understand. Many people think of Judaism and the State of Israel … it seems it is for you. Broomstick said nothing about the subject of Israel. Neither did any other person. You replied with, again, irrelevancy and no real understanding of the comment. Her comment had not one thing to do with the Israel and it is astonishgly puzzling someone could be so confused as to think it in response, when it was not implied or hinted or mentioned… ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/353 "2016-01-12T10:13:13Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The Muslim world is much worse for women than the West. I like the chalk & cheese comparison here. It’s the muslim world, and the West. One is a religion that covers 1/3 of the worlds population, including some very poor, blighted regions that have endured decades of war. The other is a relatively small elite club of wealthy nations, predominantly enjoying access to education, healthcare, and decades of social reform. How about muslim world v christian world? How about CAR, with reports of Christian militias burning “witches” (uppity women), or Uganda where the Church of Ugana lobbied for legislation demanding inprisonment or the death penalty for Homosexuals? Either we apply the comparison to specific countries, or to whole religions. Let’s not mix and match to suit our stance. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/354 "2016-01-12T10:13:17Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > As mentioned previously, the Lord’s Resistance Army did precisely that while claiming to be Christian, from 1987 to the present day. They’re small fry now, but in their hey day they were killing tens of thousands per year, as well as engaging in mass scale Rape as warfare, enforced child soldiers, kidnappings, and ethnic cleansing. > > For some reason no-one expected all christians to apologise on their behalf, just accepting they were a bunch of psychotic scum. Funny that. or the white christian identity movements responsible for terror against the non-white or even the non-right-wing in the USA that return in great force when a dark person gains higher office. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/355 "2016-01-12T10:16:44Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I like the chalk & cheese comparison here. It’s the muslim world, and the West. One is a religion that covers 1/3 of the worlds population, including some very poor, blighted regions that have endured decades of war. The other is a relatively small elite club of wealthy nations, predominantly enjoying access to education, healthcare, and decades of social reform. > > How about muslim world v christian world? How about CAR, with reports of Christian militias burning “witches” (uppity women), or Uganda where the Church of Ugana lobbied for legislation demanding inprisonment or the death penalty for Homosexuals? > > Either we apply the comparison to specific countries, or to whole religions. Let’s not mix and match to suit our stance. Or the gang rape habits in some parts of the South Africa… but they are African so many of htese commentators do not consider them the same level of the humanity or even really truly christians… Let us add also the [catholic Latin america](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/femicide-rise-central-america-article-1.1552233) since they have the paler skin, may be more admissible… (but if we talk about this, we should use the Spanish word, in italics, not the english, and talk aobut it as the general habits of the raping latino men…) ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/356 "2016-01-12T11:20:41Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > it seems it is for you. > > Broomstick said nothing about the subject of Israel. Neither did any other person. You replied with, again, irrelevancy and no real understanding of the comment. Her comment had not one thing to do with the Israel and it is astonishgly puzzling someone could be so confused as to think it in response, when it was not implied or hinted or mentioned… If you are going to quote me quote the whole of the comment not a fraction \*It is not hard to understand. Many people think of Judaism and the State of Israel as a whole they are not, You should not call people bigots and racists because they do not understand the division between the state of Israel and Judaism the religion \*This is a misconception held by many people. If the Israelis return fire against terrorists it is the Jews who get the blame even when large numbers of Jews do not agree with the Israelis action ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/357 "2016-01-12T11:53:11Z")
Israel = Nationality. not race. irrelevant. the race usage predates the existence by a century, it is 100% irrelevant to her observation. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/358 "2016-01-12T13:19:29Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > As mentioned previously, the Lord’s Resistance Army did precisely that while claiming to be Christian, from 1987 to the present day. They’re small fry now, but in their hey day they were killing tens of thousands per year, as well as engaging in mass scale Rape as warfare, enforced child soldiers, kidnappings, and ethnic cleansing. > > For some reason no-one expected all christians to apologise on their behalf, just accepting they were a bunch of psychotic scum. Funny that. Maybe because there isn’t like 50 or so similar Christian groups who do the same large scale terrorist acts the LRA did. In the Islamic world, the groups which are similar in ilk to the LRA in its butchery are common. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/359 "2016-01-12T13:25:48Z")
No, they are not. It is only the couple of groups that exist target white men so you care about them. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/360 "2016-01-12T13:58:56Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Maybe because there isn’t like 50 or so similar Christian groups who do the same large scale terrorist acts the LRA did. Splendid, we’ve gone from there not being “an organised Christian terrorist entity” to “there isn’t 50 or so”. If ever there was a person who buys goalposts on wheels to ease movement… Anyway, so let’s try it your way. The LRA are known to have killed over 100,000 people to date. Could you please list the Islamic organisations who’ve matched that count. Hell, tell you what, go for Islamic groups who’ve taken out half that number, there’s a chap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=19)