# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/441 "2016-01-13T02:16:48Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I do think we can look at France as an example of attempted Muslim integration into a Western European country. The French state has had it’s Islamic population for quite some time now. At least enough time for the majority of it['s Muslim population to be considered 2nd or 3rd generation French. The results have so far been problematic. This in itself does not refute your post but it does paint a more pessimistic scenario for Germany. I think it’s pretty widely agreed that France has taken a particularly poor approach to integration. This says a lot of France, but not necessarily a lot about Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/442 "2016-01-13T02:19:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Imagine if someone said: > _“I do it all the time. As someone who was once robbed by a black man, and whose cousin was once stabbed in school by a black teenager, I am of the mind to assume guilt until proven innocent. It’s not “fair” to all black people, but it’s how you place your bets. African Americans have a high rate of per capita violent crime. Simple facts, and if it hurts your feelings as a black person that I don’t trust you, too bad.”_ If I were black and said that it would mean something very different from what it meant if I said it as a white person. I was speaking about my fellow males, whose experiences and backgrounds are similar to mine. I am also very protective of my wife and daughters. I don’t much like men as a group and I don’t trust them, as a group, to always be on their best behavior. I openly admit that I am a misandrist. Shit, I tend to be a misanthrope. Just say that I like dogs better than people, especially men. > [@Disposable Hero](#): > > I’m not going to give much weight to the opinion of someone who openly admits he was ‘a bit of a dog’. And you were always the very picture of propriety? I am a better person now than I was as a drunken teen. I trust you are, too. Those jerks in Cologne will probably act better when sober, with more life experience, and with someone in authority to slap them across the snout with a rolled-up newspaper the next time they act badly. If things were as bad as people say, the Polizei dropped the ball, or they were ill-equipped to confront a crowd that large. I assume they will be better prepared next time, with plenty of rolled-up newspapers. Or truncheons. After all, first you have to get their attention. > [@T.M](#): > > I think what dropzone is saying that like me he has been around the block more than once without breaking any laws and has seen what a terrible place the world can be. the problem is not race it is a mix of young men and alcohol. I have three daughters who are now all grown up I always used to pick them up and drive then home of a night time. I am still trundling around that block with all its problems trying to make where I live a better place. This. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Or imagine a US frat party on a Friday night. Despite being as sexed-up as a culture can get, alcohol fueled crowds of young people still turn sexually predatory with depressing frequency. And this, since it’s much like something I said earlier. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/443 "2016-01-13T04:32:32Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > .Or alternatively how about a t-shirt saying “Fuck the US of A”, and I pick which American city you’ll wear it in? It’s likely to be in Texas, but I’d have to give it some thought. Hell, if you fancy coming this neck of the woods why not try wearing a “Fuck the pope” t-shirt in certain areas of Glasgow and see how it plays out. My guess is badly, with a closed casket funeral to follow, And what’s your basis for saying that? Do you have any factual basis for the claim that expressing “Fuck the Pope” or any similar sentiment in Glasgow would put any person in any danger? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/444 "2016-01-13T04:43:44Z")
Out of curiosity, for those who are anti-alarmists about what happened, what’s your take on what happened? “Nothing to see here”, “routine mob action, unrelated to the perpetrators’ culture of origin”, “prosecute these perpetrators, but otherwise continue current immigration policies as-is”? In your opinion, besides prosecuting the perpetrators, should \*anything \*be done? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/445 "2016-01-13T04:49:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, whenever you claim that Mohammed is the source of all evils, . Never said that. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/446 "2016-01-13T06:34:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You think that most Muslims think slavery is ok? Most Muslims know that according to mainstream and traditional interpretations, there are conditions under which enslaving and raping non-Muslim women is Islamically permissible. [Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#24) Suad Salih, E[gyptian professor of theology at the Al-Azhar University and director of the theological department at the Faculty of Islamic Studies for Girls](https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suad_Salih&prev=search) says Muslims may capture non-Muslims as slaves and rape them as spoils of war- “[they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-Bx4SYufA)” ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/447 "2016-01-13T06:58:33Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Most Muslims know that according to mainstream and traditional interpretations, there are conditions under which enslaving and raping non-Muslim women is Islamically permissible. [Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#24) > > Suad Salih, E[gyptian professor of theology at the Al-Azhar University and director of the theological department at the Faculty of Islamic Studies for Girls](https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suad_Salih&prev=search) says Muslims may capture non-Muslims as slaves and rape them as spoils of war- “[they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-Bx4SYufA)” Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that “most Muslims” agree with Suad Salih in this? The aforemetioned Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani has issued a Fatwa where he clearly disagrees: > [@](#): > > Is it permissible to enslave women belonging to infidels who make war [against us] without the permission of the legitimate ruler? Is it permissible to have sex with them before they surrender? And if someone bought or came to own a non-Muslim concubine, may he have sex with her? > > Answer: No, it is not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/448 "2016-01-13T07:51:21Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that “most Muslims” agree with Suad Salih in this? Most Muslims know about it because it is in the Koran, which is the direct word of God according to mainstream belief. Those majority who are neither ISIS supporters nor progressives have a variety of forms of cognitive dissonance, denials, and minimization. They don’t generally include full on blanket condemnations of the principle of enslavement of non-Muslims under\* all\* conditions. > [@](#): > > The aforemetioned Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani has issued a Fatwa where he clearly disagrees: No, like Suad Salih, he laid out certain conditions in which it is not permissible. He did not contradict Islamic texts and their traditional interpretations which state that there _are_ conditions under which it _is_ permissible. > [@](#): > > Is it permissible to enslave women belonging to infidels who make war [against us] **without the permission of the legitimate ruler?** Is it permissible to have sex with them before they surrender? And if someone bought or came to own a non-Muslim concubine, may he have sex with her? > > Answer: No, it is not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/449 "2016-01-13T09:15:52Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that “most Muslims” agree with Suad Salih in this? The aforemetioned Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani has issued a Fatwa where he clearly disagrees: It is Belief. > [@Polerius](#): > > In your opinion, besides prosecuting the perpetrators, should \*anything \*be done? it has been stated several times here that improved police action and screening is wise and is needed. Perhaps you would like to have agitation for camps for the refugees? And then screening, the muslim ones can wear green crescents for better visual identifications. It would be so t > [@even\_sven](#): > > You think that most Muslims think slavery is ok? HB has many wild beliefs, so yes. > [@marshmallow](#): > > If terrorism is primarily the blowback from Western imperialism then there should be a deluge of terrorists from Latin America, Asia, and sub-Saharan Africa. If the westerners were now intervening directly and starting wars of aggresions in these regions and supporting dictatorships, perhaps - and if it was a matter of geographic closeness as well. Of course Coulibaly was sub-saharan. [quote=“Fuzzy\_wuzzy, post:435, topic:742538”] I do think we can look at France as an example of attempted Muslim integration into a Western European country. [quote] Certainly as the country which by laws in the labor and other sectors, and a badly functioning elitist education system - if the Germans were so crazy and stupid as to copy these. It is the country of course that in the various investigations of labor market for over twenty years has found continued, high levels of systematic discrimination in employment against people with “immigrant names” but has taken no action at all than to piously assert for itself an “attachement” to equality. Of course if one pretends the problems seen in the muslim community are just there, but the data for the immigrants from other backgrounds but from the same economic profile countries shows problems essentially the same. but it is easier to yell Muslim than to look at the socio-economic data and the structural economic and policy issues of the France. It is wodnerful how the europeans claim to have learned lessons from the last world war, but show in fact only limited care, while they replicate the virtually all the same discourses as they had about the low income eastern jewish refugees… > [@Tithonus](#): > > How many frat parties do you think would need to be thrown Or how many demonsrations of xenophobic anti muslim White men may occur before they do on a violent rampage against Leftist and immigrants? Obviously this demonstrates the white men of the european origin are extremely dangerous and have a culture of violence. it is logical. (Broomstick maybe she can from her american context provide you with the many stories of large scale sexual assualt…) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/450 "2016-01-13T10:17:10Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > In your opinion, besides prosecuting the perpetrators, should \*anything \*be done? In addition to prosecuting the crimes that occurred, Germany should take a serious look at how integration of newcomers is handled. I’m not entirely sure how the refugees are being handled, but their arrival should also involve German language classes as well as some sort of course on cultural and legal differences between where the refugees came from and where they are now. While that will not prevent the truly bad apples from misbehaving it will cut down on those who get into trouble simply through ignorance. One problem with that is the sheer number of people arriving, which complicates delivery of such support services. Another thing that should be offered is counseling - a lot of these people arriving have suffered trauma to one degree or another, quite a few are likely to be suffering some degree of PTSD. Counseling won’t be accepted by everyone, and it doesn’t work for everyone, but dealing with past trauma may make it easier for newcomers to adapt to their new country. There’s no question the Germans would take care of physical ills and wounds, why should mental health be neglected? I think there should also be an exit option - if refugees decide they don’t like Germany after all it would be ideal for there to be some sort of assistance for them to go elsewhere. I’m not sure where that “elsewhere” would be, but it might act as a safety valve for those who find they don’t care for Europe after all. Best for everyone if they go elsewhere, and even better if they do so voluntarily. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/451 "2016-01-13T11:55:16Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > And what’s your basis for saying that? Do you have any factual basis for the claim that expressing “Fuck the Pope” or any similar sentiment in Glasgow would put any person in any danger? It certainly would put a person in physical danger of a beating, no question about that. Though its worth pointing out a couple of things. Such a t-shirt would probably be seen as more of a cultural/ethnic slur than a religous one. Also, that more than a hundred years after the Irish influx to Glasgow there are still such problems, yet such problems with Muslim refugees are to disappear within a generation or two. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/452 "2016-01-13T12:06:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think it’s pretty widely agreed that France has taken a particularly poor approach to integration. This says a lot of France, but not necessarily a lot about Muslims. Except Muslim integration into Britain has shown many similar problems to France. France is not quite a one-off. Sure, different policies may help, but a lot of these policies seem to be unchangeable. For instance unemployment; a State cannot just wave a magic wand and find a cure for unemployment. Some societal and economic problems are extremely hard to fix. I have little faith in the ability of Western Govt’s to find a cure for such problems. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/453 "2016-01-13T13:12:41Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Out of curiosity, for those who are anti-alarmists about what happened, what’s your take on what happened? > > “Nothing to see here”, “routine mob action, unrelated to the perpetrators’ culture of origin”, “prosecute these perpetrators, but otherwise continue current immigration policies as-is”? > > In your opinion, besides prosecuting the perpetrators, should \*anything \*be done? Prosecute the perpetrators. They committed a serious crime and need to be put through the justice system. Break up the pickpocketing ring and throw the book at them. Word will spread. Take a look at what wasn’t working in terms of crowd control. While it’s not usually sexually violent, mob violence is not uncommon. Just over Christmas, 2000 US teenagers rampaged across a Kentucky mall. Concerts (remember the mosh pit rapes of Woodstock 99?), sporting events, festivals, protests and other large public gatherings have a track record of turning unexpectedly ugly quickly. I assume there are policing techniques for preventing this. Germany may need to reassess what kinds of crowds to expect at certain public events right now and organize accordingly. More services for refugees would help, but organizations are no doubt stretched thin. Creative outreach using social media and community leaders may help. I don’t really think changing immigration policy is a proportional solution. It might work, but it causes a lot of damage to solve a problem better fixed through other means. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/454 "2016-01-13T16:38:36Z")
Haven’t read through the thread, and most likely someone has linked to this already (sorry if so), but [here](http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/opinions/mushaben-cologne-attacks/index.html) is CNN’s take on it: > [@](#): > > CNN)When the Arab Spring erupted in 2011, Western states optimistically assumed that protests against authoritarian regimes across Northern Africa would result in a democratic “fourth wave.” But few could have expected the chain of events that would lead to over 2 million refugees crossing the Mediterranean in open boats, seeking safe haven from their own failed states – or a series of New Year’s flashpoints that intensified a national debate that even drew the attention of a U.S. presidential candidate. > > On New Year’s Eve, marauding groups of “north-African looking” men reportedly surrounded women in public spaces in the German cities of Cologne, Hamburg and Frankfurt, grabbing their purses, cell phones and intimate body parts. So far, some 500 victims have filed robbery and sexual assault complaints. Despite initial reports that “all was peaceful,” we now know that Cologne’s police force had turned down reinforcements from Duisburg, and that officers on duty that night were so overwhelmed by the crowd that they reportedly could not even rescue one of their own female undercover agents, who was also allegedly assaulted. > [@](#): > > The truth is that politicians have known for years that women also face higher rates of sexual assault at the hands of drunken men during Germany’s world-famous Oktoberfest and pre-Lenten Carneval celebrations. That raises the question as to why officials have waited until now to revise rape laws that still expect women to prove they have actively resisted their attackers. It also makes one wonder why officials were not just as concerned about reported rapes and assaults occurring in the refugee reception centers. > > Right-wing extremists linked to far-right organizations such as Pegida and the AfD reject policies that would really strengthen gender rights in Germany, such as equal pay, a 30% female quota for corporate boards and tougher laws against domestic abuse, even as they shamelessly exploit the New Year’s debacle to legitimize their own racist agendas “to protect our women.” > > But if protecting women is the goal, then shouldn’t there have been a little more outrage over the report from the Ministry for Family, Seniors, Women, and Youth that 25% of all German women will experience some form of domestic violence during their lifetime? Dorothea Moesch, who operates a center for migrants, needy locals and their children in Westerfilde, received an anonymous phone threat in June declaring: “You’re going to burn witch, just like all of the other c—.” Or when Chancellor Angela Merkel visited a refugee camp in Heidenau, anti-migration protesters held up signs calling her a slut and an “enemy of the German state.” According to CNN anyway, this has been an ongoing problem in Germany that stems from before mass immigration from the ME was happening, and that it’s now a problem only because this has put focus on the issue that wasn’t there before. No idea if they are right or wrong, I’ve never been to Germany on NYE before nor in my trips did I notice this supposed systemic abuse of women, but that’s the view of the author of the article anyway. > [@](#): > > Arch-feminist Alice Schwarzer described the event in Cologne as a “gang-bang party … 1,000 men who were acting as if they were in Tahir Square in Cairo, dreaming of being heroes like their brothers in the civil wars of North Africa and the Middle East.” > > As reprehensible as I find these assaults on women, along with police chief failures to have taken additional security precautions given the recent terrorist attacks in Paris, I think Schwarzer is right, but for the wrong reason. Because while she stresses “misplaced tolerance” in her country, I believe the bigger problem rests with European and American tolerance of violence against women everywhere else. > > For decades, Western leaders have pursued lucrative trade deals with authoritarian leaders ranging from former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad to the Saudi royals, selling them weapons, automobiles and luxury goods while ignoring U.N. and EU gender mainstreaming mandates. Indeed, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier is scheduled to visit Saudi Arabia next week, the very country whose Wahhabism gave rise to Osama bin Laden and initially tolerated extremist Sunni formations like al Qaeda. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, whatever solution Merkel proposes, one thing should be crystal clear: The more the leaders of Western democratic states ignore the brutal, sexist treatment of women in other countries, the sooner it will come back to haunt all of us on our own turf. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/455 "2016-01-13T17:18:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Prosecute the perpetrators. They committed a serious crime and need to be put through the justice system. Break up the pickpocketing ring and throw the book at them. Word will spread. > > Take a look at what wasn’t working in terms of crowd control. While it’s not usually sexually violent, mob violence is not uncommon. Just over Christmas, 2000 US teenagers rampaged across a Kentucky mall. Concerts (remember the mosh pit rapes of Woodstock 99?), sporting events, festivals, protests and other large public gatherings have a track record of turning unexpectedly ugly quickly. I assume there are policing techniques for preventing this. Germany may need to reassess what kinds of crowds to expect at certain public events right now and organize accordingly. > > More services for refugees would help, but organizations are no doubt stretched thin. Creative outreach using social media and community leaders may help. > > I don’t really think changing immigration policy is a proportional solution. It might work, but it causes a lot of damage to solve a problem better fixed through other means. Many of you will not agree on the number of genuine refugee’s that we are taking from Syria, but I think by selection from the refugee camps near the Syrian boarder is the best way it gives us chance to check papers and make sure that they are genuine refugee’s. Personally I would prioritise children & parent (sadly not all children have two parents) medical emergencies. Bottom of my list would be fit single males between 18-45 my feelings are they should stay and help sort out their country ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/456 "2016-01-13T17:20:13Z")
> [@XT](#): > > According to CNN anyway, this has been an ongoing problem in Germany that stems from before mass immigration from the ME was happening, and that it’s now a problem only because this has put focus on the issue that wasn’t there before. **No idea if they are right or wrong** , I’ve never been to Germany on NYE before nor in my trips did I notice this supposed systemic abuse of women, but that’s the view of the author of the article anyway. (bolding mine) Answer: The article is complete bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/457 "2016-01-13T17:31:15Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Except Muslim integration into Britain has shown many similar problems to France. France is not quite a one-off. Sure, different policies may help, but a lot of these policies seem to be unchangeable. For instance unemployment; a State cannot just wave a magic wand and find a cure for unemployment. Some societal and economic problems are extremely hard to fix. I have little faith in the ability of Western Govt’s to find a cure for such problems. Agreed a state cannot wave a magic wand and cure unemployment, it can control the entry of immigrants to the number of vacancies that are available. The U.K. failed to do this last year so we now have unemployed immigrants with little or no hope of finding employment. All countries should have a controlled immigration policy linked to job vacancies with genuine refugee’s given priority. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/458 "2016-01-13T18:24:57Z")
My opinion is that in the past Governments got it wrong and have been operating a cover up on serious problems that would reflect badly on policies of operating an open door on immigration. Any group protesting against the open door policy was condemned as right wing racist’s by the left wing media when racism did not come into the equation, yes there are groups in the U.K. such as the BNP and the NF and I am sure Europe has its equivalent. The U.K. had a socialist government at the time and decided to link all protest against uncontrolled immigration to the BNP which was not true and the majority of the protesters had a dislike of the BNP. What is happening now is the truth is starting to come out not just in the U.K. but across northern Europe, up until now there have only been unconfirmed reports of sexual assaults committed by some immigrants, now some of these reports are being proven true even though originally governments denied them. A great deal of what is happening today is not down to religion but to governments who close their eye’s to cultural practices that are illegal in most countries within Europe rather than say no you cannot do that it is illegal and unacceptable they hushed it up and allowed the problem to grow. As I have said it is an opinion I am sorry it is a bit of a ramble but I tend to type on line ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/459 "2016-01-13T20:58:51Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Yeah, Western women in the 1940s and before were downtrodden little things, fearful of offending men and hidden away indoors. > Actually rape was a death offence from ancient Rome to Mediaeval times: swinging them stopped in English law in the 1840s, but it was replaced with imprisonment for life. Which wasn’t a picnic in 19th century prisons. > > It wasn’t the same in Eastern countries so much. Depended whom you raped probably. > > Which is not to say that muslims don’t have useful insights on gender relations that we can adopt. I have recently been enthused with the muslim Shia invention of [**Mut’ah**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-term_marriage), Fixed-Term Marriages, legal with the Twelvers ( the major Shia ). Instead of people being forced to stay in a loveless, boring marriage, it can instead be fixed in advance to 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years., after which both parties can go their own way in friendship and amity. The only caveat being the woman has to refrain from sex for a while after. > > We have much to learn from them. I’m pretty sure rape is illegal in every country even in Muslim countries. In fact it is punishable by death in all the ones I know of. As an aside, one of the reasons rape no longer carries the death penalty was because juries would not convict if they knew the accused would be executed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/460 "2016-01-13T21:09:48Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Very true on both points, the first BBC reports I read did mention that the suspects were ‘apparently of Middle Eastern or North African origin’, but then spent the next few paragraphs saying that they weren’t necessarily refugees. Sure, but they were still immigrants at _some_ point. How are you so sure none of them were born there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=24)