# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/501 "2016-01-16T11:56:32Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Just to bring the conversation back on track. > > The backlash: Neo-Nazis on the rampage. Gun sales soaring. SUE REID warns sex attacks by migrants have unleashed dark forces in Germany that have disturbing echoes of the past > Half of Germans sceptical that Merkel will cope with the influx of migrants > In contrast, Eurosceptic party AfD hit an all-time high in an opinion poll > In Leipzig on Monday 500 thugs set cars ablaze and attacked shops and fast food restaurants, some of them belonging to migrants > Came after the mass sex attacks in Cologne on New Year’s Eve > > By Sue Reid for the Daily Mail > > Published: 22:16, 15 January 2016 | Updated: 00:16, 16 January 2016 > Read more: [SUE REID warns sex attacks by migrants have unleashed dark forces in Germany | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3401862/The-backlash-Neo-Nazis-rampage-Gun-sales-soaring-SUE-REID-warns-sex-attacks-migrants-unleashed-dark-forces-Germany-disturbing-echoes-past.html#ixzz3xOgHNOV8) > Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook > > When I read this I thought is this the start of the nightmare? This has echo’s of the start of the second world war only this time a large percentage of the European population will be in agreement about dealing with Islamism. The German Government has opened the door to the Neo Nazi party, the question is how do we slam it shut again I am always wary when reading of a rise in Neo Naziism. Such a rise has been warned of time and again these past few decades. In each case the fears have been exaggerated. In this instance the warnings may indeed be more accurate, but probably overblown. I have little doubt AfD(or similar groups) will see an increase in it’s poll numbers in the near future. An increase from 10% to 15% is probably not much to be concerned with; an increase to 25% will be more problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/502 "2016-01-16T12:03:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Who is doing this? > > Seriously, who in this thread said that? The closest I came to was stating that getting your tits and ass grabbed, and fingers in orifices, while definitely a horrible and invasive assault, is not the worst of all possible fates, there are far worse things that can and have occurred. Of course, this was immediately twisted around to the notion that I am somehow minimizing what happened - no, I’m not. It’s that goddamned tendency people have to view the world in a binary fashion holding all crimes equal. No, they’re not. There are bad things and worse things. BigT for one? The quote I used at the start of my last reply? And there’s no need to get to get uptight, I was under the impression we could discuss this calmy and rationally, but apparently not. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, the current wave didn’t wait to be invited, they just sort of showed up. Merkel invited them to Germany, but they were already in Europe at the time. Plenty showed up after Merkel’s unilateral invite, and those here before that were at least partially attracted by the European Union’s lax border controls. A question, I believe you’re American, correct? Should the USA have a similar border control policy to Europe? > [@dropzone](#): > > And you were always the very picture of propriety? I am a better person now than I was as a drunken teen. I’m not American and my teenage years were somewhat different than what seems to be considered the norm over there _(though unfortunately its gotten a lot worse, not better, since then, witness the rise of ‘lad’ and ‘ladette’ culture)_. So perhaps its a cultural problem rather than a ‘men’ problem per se? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How are you so sure none of them were born there? If they weren’t immigrants then their parents or grandparents were, certainly they should be considered full German citizens and as German and welcome to be there as any other German who’s ancestry goes back centuries, but do _they_ consider themselves as such? Its an integration issue again, some immigrants have done so, _(the old ‘more Irish than the Irish themselves’)_ while some haven’t. There are quite a few British Muslims for example who would not describe themselves as British despite having been born here. > [@Velocity](#): > > Whenever Islam is criticized, there’s this instinctive, almost knee-jerk reaction by many on the political left to swoop in and defend it. I’ve never quite seen that reaction when it comes to any other religion. Its bizarre, we hear a lot about rape culture, sexual assault and violence against women, but when have a 100% genuine real-deal example the response from those most vocal about the above is either curiously muted, entirely silent or dismissive. No, we shouldn’t overstate the case either, its no 9/11, but it is something that has made a lot of people sit up and take notice about the European Unions frankly absolutely insane immigration policy. Again, how is having proper border controls where we decide who and who not to let in even controversial? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/503 "2016-01-16T12:23:42Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > So here we are: defending abusers of women because they are a “despised minority.” > > The liberal cognitive dissonance is so loud it’s a fucking tritone. Nobody is defending the abusers. People are defending people who haven’t done a single thing wrong except have the same religion as the abusers. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/504 "2016-01-16T12:56:15Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I am always wary when reading of a rise in Neo Naziism. Such a rise has been warned of time and again these past few decades. In each case the fears have been exaggerated. In this instance the warnings may indeed be more accurate, but probably overblown. I have little doubt AfD(or similar groups) will see an increase in it’s poll numbers in the near future. An increase from 10% to 15% is probably not much to be concerned with; an increase to 25% will be more problematic. It is wise to be wary, the problem is not the growth of individual groups that may grow by 10-15% and may not cause an immediate problem. It is the growth of the number of groups in Northern Europe especially in Eastern Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/505 "2016-01-16T16:57:58Z")
This op-ed (“Germany Shames U.S. With Its Policies Toward Refugees”) appeared in my local paper a few months ago. \*“Maher Zain, a 1981-born singer who was just eight when his Lebanese family was admitted by Sweden, is the latest showcase that Muslim immigrants can make contributions to world peace rather than causing troubles to their receiving countries. With millions of fans in Europe, England, Malaysia, Indonesia, Palestine, Pakistan and China, Zain’s anti-war songs are no less heart-touching than Pakistan-born Canadian singer Irfan Makki’s “You and I”. Yet, Germany is the only state in the West camp welcoming Muslim refugees when all its peers hesitate. Berlin’s once again deviation means something important to International Relations.” “Despite being named skeptically (or sarcastically) as “Mother Angela” that her decision “has divided Europe”, Chancellor Merkel has shown her resolute to welcome the refugees in mass volume.” “With a higher moral status after accepting a huge number of refugees, Germany will have a stronger base to choose its role and position to play in world politics. Its metamorphosis would eventually become another solid footing for an ‘International Society’ to operate in the 21st century.”\* > **[Germany Shames U.S. With Its Policies Toward Refugees, China, and Russia - FPIF](https://fpif.org/germany-shames-u-s-with-its-policies-toward-refugees-china-and-russia/)** > > Despite risks to domestic politics and local administration, Germany is opening its gates to vast numbers of refugees. Seems a bit quaint now. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/506 "2016-01-16T18:17:03Z")
Here’s an interesting tidbit that might actually be an accurate poll, and a sign of changing times: In today’s New York Times, there is an [op-ed article](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/16/opinion/can-germany-be-honest-about-its-refugee-problems.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0) by a German journalist, saying that “gee whiz,after the Cologne assaults, it looks like we Germans may actually have a problem with all these Muslim immigrants,and we need to start thinking about how to solve it”. The comments section has 500 responses from NYTimes registered readers.(far more than usual ) Over 90% are on the same side of the issue: they say that it’s time to end the left’s knee-jerk political correctness. They state out loud that massive Muslim presence is not healthy for western culture; that the time has come to recognize that protecting our own culture is more important than worshipping the ideal of “diversity”. This isn’t a random collection of idiots, like ,say, youtube comments— This is the frickin’ _New York Times_!—the ultimate bastion of political correctness. Do 500 well-written comments by its registered subscribers provide an accurate picture of the political landcape? Are we witnessing the begining of a deep change in the liberal mindset? ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/507 "2016-01-16T19:54:27Z")
You may wish to take a look at the UKs Guardian for it as well. Read their articles on the issue, then look at the comments from their usually very left-wing and articulate registered readers. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/508 "2016-01-16T19:59:31Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This isn’t a random collection of idiots, like ,say, youtube comments— > This is the frickin’ New York Times!—the ultimate bastion of political correctness. They’re all clearly bigoted, bigoty bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/509 "2016-01-16T21:02:23Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > You may wish to take a look at the UKs Guardian for it as well. Read their articles on the issue, then look at the comments from their usually very left-wing and articulate registered readers. I stopped reading the Guardian a long time ago because of its overly-leftist views, I checked out their website and suggested and yes there does seem to be something of a backlash from even their readers. And yet nothing will be done until our leadership, political or otherwise, decide to listen to the people, the majority of whom want stricter controls on immigration. The right-wing Conservative party was elected, twice, in the UK at least partially on its policies to bring immigration to the UK down markedly, something which it has yet to do. Either they are _incapable_ of doing so or they _don’t want_ to do so. Either way it is not reassuring. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/510 "2016-01-16T21:15:22Z")
Two German transgender women ‘are STONED in the street’ by a gang of three North African teenagers in Dortmund who said ‘such people’ should be killed Three men of North African origin arrested for alleged assault on two women Transgender victims said the men threw stones at them and attacked them Attackers fled the scene when a police intervened near Dortmund station Dortmund police have confirmed three men are in custody and no one was seriously injured in the incident last Monday By Tom Wyke for MailOnline Published: 18:31, 16 January 2016 | Updated: 18:35, 16 January 2016 Read more: [German transgender women ‘are STONED in the street’ by North African teens | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3402706/Two-German-transgender-women-STONED-street-gang-three-North-African-teenagers-Dortmund-said-people-killed.html#ixzz3xRbXx5eu) Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/511 "2016-01-16T22:22:59Z")
There is a fundamental disconnect between espousing left-wing values, and supporting the large-scale import of workers that are willing to work harder at lower wages than the workers already present. When this import concentrates on people from countries where the median opinion on issues like womens rights, gay rights, priority between church and state etc, etc are far to the right of even the far right… the disconnect becomes acute. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/512 "2016-01-16T22:26:29Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > There is a fundamental disconnect between espousing left-wing values, and supporting the large-scale import of workers that are willing to work harder at lower wages than the workers already present. > > When this import concentrates on people from countries where the median opinion on issues like womens rights, gay rights, priority between church and state etc, etc are far to the right of even the far right… the disconnect becomes acute. No kidding. This would be funny if it wasn’t so tragically sad. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/513 "2016-01-16T22:37:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Nobody is defending the abusers. People are defending people who haven’t done a single thing wrong except have the same religion as the abusers. Public policy _always_ involves some collateral damage when countries deal with other foreign countries or populations - life is just unfair like that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/514 "2016-01-16T22:57:38Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > There is a fundamental disconnect between espousing left-wing values, and supporting the large-scale import of workers that are willing to work harder at lower wages than the workers already present. > > When this import concentrates on people from countries where the median opinion on issues like womens rights, gay rights, priority between church and state etc, etc are far to the right of even the far right… the disconnect becomes acute. AFAICT the overton window that exists in theNorth African countries many of these refugees come from is so far to the right that if it were a Venn diagram there would be a 20% overlap at best. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/515 "2016-01-17T03:20:58Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Two German transgender women ‘are STONED in the street’ by a gang of three **North African** teenagers in Dortmund who said ‘such people’ should be killed > Three men of North African origin arrested for alleged assault on two women > Transgender victims said the men threw stones at them and attacked them > Attackers fled the scene when a police intervened near Dortmund station > Dortmund police have confirmed three men are in custody and no one was seriously injured in the incident last Monday > > By Tom Wyke for MailOnline > > Published: 18:31, 16 January 2016 | Updated: 18:35, 16 January 2016 > Read more: [German transgender women ‘are STONED in the street’ by North African teens | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3402706/Two-German-transgender-women-STONED-street-gang-three-North-African-teenagers-Dortmund-said-people-killed.html#ixzz3xRbXx5eu) > Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook So then since Syria is not in “North Africa” you would agree that only a bigot or someone who was highly ignorant would see this a reflection on Syrians? Correct? If not, please explain. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/516 "2016-01-17T03:49:26Z")
North Africa includes the entire Mediterranean. So, Syria is Northeast Africa. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/517 "2016-01-17T04:10:09Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > There is a fundamental disconnect between espousing left-wing values, and supporting the large-scale import of workers that are willing to work harder at lower wages than the workers already present. > > When this import concentrates on people from countries where the median opinion on issues like womens rights, gay rights, priority between church and state etc, etc are far to the right of even the far right… the disconnect becomes acute. This is an excellent point, and one that mainstream politicians and writers seem almost totally unwilling to face. Unfortunately for them, the events that are occurring almost daily and dominating the news are forcing people to recognize and confront this issue. Right-wing politicians will have an easy time pointing this out to the public and using it to draw in new support. I don’t support politicians who wave an anti-immigrant banner as if it will solve all problems, whether they be named Donald Trump or Marine Le Pen or something else. But if the mainstream politicians continue to deliver things like what happened in Cologne, I predict that support for the fringe politicians will continue to grow. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/518 "2016-01-17T06:42:17Z")
If only we could think up a heroic act that didn’t involve any actual risk. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/519 "2016-01-17T08:37:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So then since Syria is not in “North Africa” you would agree that only a bigot or someone who was highly ignorant would see this a reflection on Syrians? > > Correct? > > If not, please explain. > > Thanks. Speaking of ignorant, would you agree that someone bringing up Syria and bigotry in response to a post that doesn’t mention or reference Syria might likely be attempting to deflect attention from horrible hate crimes and the ideology that drives them? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/520 "2016-01-17T09:37:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So then since Syria is not in “North Africa” you would agree that only a bigot or someone who was highly ignorant would see this a reflection on Syrians? > > Correct? > > If not, please explain. > > Thanks. The title is what is happening in Germany so I am looking at the whole migration problem. The mass migration that is travelling north from the Mediterranean to Northern Europe is not purely Syrian it is a mix from many countries, out of this mix the only ones to be considered as Refugees are the Syrians, the others are considered to be economic migrants. Due to the massive influx no proper checks have been made so Germany has no idea how many illegal immigrants she has within her boarders and how many are Syrian refugees, Government figures for the U.K. that there are at least 1M. illegal immigrants in the U.K. and there is no trace of them. The problem is the EU open border policy. This is the reason why the U.K. is taking in Syrian refugee’s directly from the refugee camps this way we know they are genuine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=27)