# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/561 "2016-01-18T01:29:41Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Just in case you might be misreading my post. > > I was making fun of Miller’s post. Leave it to him to make this debate about gay rights and rapey Texan frat boys with a minimum of justification. Much less the mind reading aspect of his post. Sorry ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/562 "2016-01-18T01:40:08Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So why were they not blocked from entering the EU? **Gripe as some will about US immigration policy, we do a much better job of vetting asylum seekers and blocking the purely economic migrants** , who are more likely than not single young males. Far from perfect, but better that, “You have a Mid East or North African accent of some sort? Welcome to the EU, you terrorized, downtrodden soul!” Ok in the US they queue up with their papers and are vetted, in the EU they push the officials out of the way and keep going , if they do not get their way they threaten to riot You have to remember some of these people are coming out of a war zone a few police men with guns does not scare them ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/563 "2016-01-18T01:58:05Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Sorry No need to apologize. But thank you for doing so. These things happen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/564 "2016-01-18T04:35:59Z")
OK, vetting. Great idea, get right on that. How? Anybody who fled without ensuring that they have the correct documents? They’re out of luck? And if they have documents, can we verify them by sending a polite letter to a civil war zone? “To Whomsoever May Have Survived: Please be so kind as to send us a copy of the birth records and vaccination schedule for Achmed A. Abdul, citizen 1234494…” Isn’t if obvious that the person we most want to forbid entry to will most likely have all his documents in perfect order, albeit forgeries? ISIS is likely sophisticated enough to put together some respectable forgery, even moreso since the place you will call to verify the documents burned up, fell over and sank in the sand. Suppose then, that none of this works, none of this will make us safe. These innocent people, huddling on our doorstep hungry, cold and fearful. Who wants to be first to tell them “Sorry about that, but we can’t help you and still guarantee our safety. Sucks to be you.” Perhaps we might have the good taste not to publicly congratulate ourselves for being humane, courageous and generous. About how we really wanted to help, but the risk was too much. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/565 "2016-01-18T04:48:09Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Today on FB I’ve been seeing “compassionate conservatives” who have advocated the outright criminalization of transgender persons for even _ **existing** _ fluttering their hands with horror over the attack on the two German transgender women. :rolleyes: Transsexuals would still exist, they just wouldn’t have their factually incorrect opinions be treated as if they were the truth. If the law forbids the state from officially declaring that a Catholic’s factually incorrect worldview is true (_which it does_), that does not mean that Catholicism has become criminalised. There is no contradiction between thinking someone is a fool and not thinking they should be physically attacked just for being a fool. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/566 "2016-01-18T10:03:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The splendid state of Jordan’s preparedness is happy news, and I do not presume to doubt it. However, other posters, less generous and open-minded than myself… might harbor doubts. > > Perhaps some citation for this excellent news would be appropriate? Not for me, mind you, but for those who cling to their dark ignorance. Let me make it clear. Funding by the EU to create safe communities in Jordon where medical and education services can be provided. We must remember that we are not dealing with down and outs, many will have qualifications that can be used within the community. I personally do not want to see people living in badly run shanty towns. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/567 "2016-01-18T10:09:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, vetting. Great idea, get right on that. How? Anybody who fled without ensuring that they have the correct documents? They’re out of luck? And if they have documents, can we verify them by sending a polite letter to a civil war zone? > > “To Whomsoever May Have Survived: Please be so kind as to send us a copy of the birth records and vaccination schedule for Achmed A. Abdul, citizen 1234494…” > > Isn’t if obvious that the person we most want to forbid entry to will most likely have all his documents in perfect order, albeit forgeries? ISIS is likely sophisticated enough to put together some respectable forgery, even moreso since the place you will call to verify the documents burned up, fell over and sank in the sand. > > Suppose then, that none of this works, none of this will make us safe. These innocent people, huddling on our doorstep hungry, cold and fearful. Who wants to be first to tell them “Sorry about that, but we can’t help you and still guarantee our safety. Sucks to be you.” > > Perhaps we might have the good taste not to publicly congratulate ourselves for being humane, courageous and generous. About how we really wanted to help, but the risk was too much. You are either a wind up merchant or seriously out of touch with the reality of the situation ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/568 "2016-01-18T18:02:22Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Let me make it clear. Funding by the EU to create safe communities in Jordon where medical and education services can be provided. We must remember that we are not dealing with down and outs, many will have qualifications that can be used within the community. I personally do not want to see people living in badly run shanty towns. You have yet to tell us why you think Jordan is totally on board with your plan. Or other such pertinent information like where the water is going to come from. And the food. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/569 "2016-01-18T18:16:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You have yet to tell us why you think Jordan is totally on board with your plan. Or other such pertinent information like where the water is going to come from. And the food. Who is on board with your plan? Though, to be fair I guess you don’t really have one so I am sure you can find some people on board with your platitudes. But the fact is, allowing hundreds of thousands of refugees in to Europe kind of needs a plan a little more structured than “come on in”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/570 "2016-01-18T18:18:12Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > You are either a wind up merchant or seriously out of touch with the reality of the situation Thus far, your authority for an expert opinion is largely, if not entirely, unproven. Now might be a good time to offer such. I am fully aware that my feeble opinions might be crushed beneath the massive weight of your expertise. But I am brave. You may proceed with the crushing. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/571 "2016-01-18T18:28:33Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > How does that even work? Citations for calling oneself a woman while possessing a penis? Or do they just oppose surgery and hormonal interventions with little or no proof of medical benefit? > > Unless they advocated or participated in physical attacks on transgender people, you have not discovered any hypocrisy whatsoever, let alone an eye-roll worthy example. We’re not here to discuss your transphobia. Not taking the bait. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/572 "2016-01-18T18:31:15Z")
There are few, if any, real experts on how to deal with a shitstorm like this. And I am not amongst them. But it is clear to me that any possible plan would rely on the humanity and generosity of Europe and the Americas. Propaganda that fans the flames of hatred and bigotry cannot possibly be of value to any such plan. If that is a mere platitude to you, so be it. There are other ears, other minds. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/573 "2016-01-18T18:38:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, then, where do they go? These desperate and terrified people, widows and orphans, where do you suggest they go? So far, all you’ve shown us is that you don’t much care what happens to them or where they go, so long as it doesn’t happen here. > > What is to be done? There are far far more hungry and desperate people in the world for the West to take in and save them all. So the question isn’t whether or not to turn away desperate and terrified people as you imply, but rather how many of them to turn away, and what to do to integrate the ones allowed in, and what to do to help the ones denied entry. You insinuate that the folks who voice concerns about the negative effects of immigration “don’t much care”, as if all it would take was for everyone to evolve to your superior state of magnanimity and -poof- no more human misery. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/574 "2016-01-18T18:41:52Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Transsexuals would still exist, they just wouldn’t have their factually incorrect opinions be treated as if they were the truth. If the law forbids the state from officially declaring that a Catholic’s factually incorrect worldview is true (which it does), that does not mean that Catholicism has become criminalised. Blatantly false analogy. You can be fired for being transgender in the majority of states. You can be denied a job. You can also be denied housing, loans and financial assistance, medical treatment for non-transgender health concerns, shelter accommodation, and many other protections. Whereas being Catholic, you are protected from discrimination based upon your religion in these things. The “compassionate conservatives” fight to keep us an oppressed minority. Not so with Catholics. They fight at the polls, they fight at the town halls, they fight at the city council meetings, they fight at their churches, and they come right up and fight in the streets when we are peacefully demonstrating. They tell us we are evil, we should be herded to the Nevada desert and nuked, we should be sterilized, and we should be killed. And at least some of those same local people, who I know very well, go on FB and wring their hands over the “evil Muslims” who harass transgender people. That is hypocrisy. This has all been explained to you before, in detail, including your factually incorrect statements regarding transgender people. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/575 "2016-01-18T18:43:25Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > We’re not here to discuss your transphobia. Not taking the bait. LOL nice one. Those who might disagree with you have a “phobia”. Where have I heard that one before? Did the people in question on your Facebook feed advocate or commit violence towards anyone? Because if they did not then you are posturing as a victim while others are actually victimized. Perhaps you have acquired some variety of phobia that clouds your judgement. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/576 "2016-01-18T18:46:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There are few, if any, real experts on how to deal with a shitstorm like this. And I am not amongst them. But it is clear to me that any possible plan would rely on the humanity and generosity of Europe and the Americas. Propaganda that fans the flames of hatred and bigotry cannot possibly be of value to any such plan. > > If that is a mere platitude to you, so be it. There are other ears, other minds. It definitely is mere platitude, pretty much the definition. You may not buy T.M.'s line, but saying the West should properly fund the refugee camps is not doing nothing and does rely on generousity and humanity. And if a lot of the refugees want to go back it makes a lot of logistical sense. Germany’s open door plan makes sense if, as Merkel basically stated, the goal is “Oh boy. New workforce”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/577 "2016-01-18T18:46:34Z")
> [@](#): > > …Perhaps you have acquired some variety of phobia that clouds your judgement. The fear of the frog Splashing in the ancient pond Zenophobia - _BuddhaShave_ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/578 "2016-01-18T19:24:50Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > LOL nice one. Those who might disagree with you have a “phobia”. Where have I heard that one before? I should imagine you might hear accusations of being transphobic, given your immediate fixation on genitals regarding the subject, but what do I know? Let your conscience be your guide. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/579 "2016-01-18T19:54:25Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > LOL nice one. Those who might disagree with you have a “phobia”. Where have I heard that one before? Was it the last time you demonstrated an irrational dislike of a minority group? Because I imagine you’d hear that a lot. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/580 "2016-01-18T21:21:32Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > It is “funny”. The liberal left has embraced the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend…but they are too ###%#%#% to realize that said enemy of their enemy is their worst fricking nightmare by comparision. This isn’t entirely wrong. On the other hand, it reminds me of conservatives thinking Mexicans are religious, hard working, and family oriented, so they’re bound to vote Republican once the scales fall from their eyes. Any day now. Seems more likely to me that libs and Muslims in the West will make common cause to fight the right, even if Muslims and the right agree on a lot of things. Look at America. Muslim politicians tend to be Dem. Think Andre Carson, Keith Ellison, or Barack Obama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=30)