# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/581 "2016-01-18T22:19:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Was it the last time you demonstrated an irrational dislike of a minority group? Because I imagine you’d hear that a lot. Of course that is what your imagination conjures up. Such fantasies are the primary response of regressives when confronted with their own hypocrisy. In these sorts of discussions, the presence of accusations of racism and bigotry being used to shield against criticism of favored ideologies is about as surprising as seeing a dog smell it’s own butt. And just as useful and informative to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/582 "2016-01-18T22:23:08Z")
In fact, in certain circles, the accusations serve as a nice barometer that one is on the right track. It’s like arguing with white supremacists, if you do so for any length of time without being accused of being a Jew, you are doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/583 "2016-01-18T22:35:36Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > This isn’t entirely wrong. > > On the other hand, it reminds me of conservatives thinking Mexicans are religious, hard working, and family oriented, so they’re bound to vote Republican once the scales fall from their eyes. Any day now. Seems more likely to me that libs and Muslims in the West will make common cause to fight the right, even if Muslims and the right agree on a lot of things. Look at America. Muslim politicians tend to be Dem. Think Andre Carson, Keith Ellison, or Barack Obama. I think the situations are not very analogous. If the left has to give up the notion of equality for an alliance with the new immigrants, it probably wont happen. Well, hopefully. Reactions to this case has brought it home that a lot of people are willing to accept different rights for “their” women. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/584 "2016-01-18T23:25:54Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > If the left has to give up the notion of equality for an alliance with the new immigrants, it probably wont happen. They’re already allies. You can even compare the right’s panic regarding the ideas of Eurabia vs. the Mexican reconquista. The right has more to lose in both cases because they’re so invested in the ideas of nationality and Western values, which are punchlines on the left, especially nowadays. Most libs would discount both as the fever dreams of rascists, but even if true there’s not much reason for them to care. Especially if it gives them more political power. A more pragmatic fear is it would lead to a right wing backlash, but I’ll believe it when I see it - they strike me as big on talk and low on action. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/585 "2016-01-18T23:59:21Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > rascists My brain wanted to say fascist and racist at the same time, but it’s better as a portmanteau for rascally racists. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/586 "2016-01-19T09:35:48Z")
YASMIN ALIBHAI-BROWN: It is crucial that Muslim women learn English as without it they and their daughters are kept captive Yasmin Alibhai-Brown believes PM is correct to bring up language issue Says Muslim men are stripping away rights of their wives and daughters David Cameron said that 190,000 Muslim women speak little or no English Mrs Alibhai-Brown asks why David Cameron blames women for being unable to speak English when he allows single-sex faith schools to be built By Yasmin Alibhai-brown For The Daily Mail Published: 00:23, 19 January 2016 | Updated: 01:24, 19 January 2016 Read more: [YASMIN ALIBHAI-BROWN: It is crucial that Muslim women learn English as without it they and their daughters are kept captive | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405763/YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-crucial-Muslim-women-learn-English-without-daughters-kept-captive.html#ixzz3xgEzomAR) Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook At last the U.K. P.M. David Camoron has woken up to a problem that has been known for years. Germany and the rest of Europe must follow the U.K. example on this one. By not being allowed to read, write and speak the language of the country in which they dwell Muslim woman are being imprisoned by invisible bars and that is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/587 "2016-01-19T09:57:45Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Blatantly false analogy. You can be fired for being transgender in the majority of states. You can be denied a job. You can also be denied housing, loans and financial assistance, medical treatment for non-transgender health concerns, shelter accommodation, and many other protections. > > Whereas being Catholic, you are protected from discrimination based upon your religion in these things. > > The “compassionate conservatives” fight to keep us an oppressed minority. Not so with Catholics. They fight at the polls, they fight at the town halls, they fight at the city council meetings, they fight at their churches, and they come right up and fight in the streets when we are peacefully demonstrating. They tell us we are evil, we should be herded to the Nevada desert and nuked, we should be sterilized, and we should be killed. And at least some of those same local people, who I know very well, go on FB and wring their hands over the “evil Muslims” who harass transgender people. > > That is hypocrisy. > > This has all been explained to you before, in detail, including your factually incorrect statements regarding transgender people. Just a question. What would these haters of trans genders do if they came face to face with a unisexual ( someone who is physicaly both genders in the same body)? They exist naturally they are part of Gods creation ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/588 "2016-01-19T10:03:33Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > In fact, in certain circles, the accusations serve as a nice barometer that one is on the right track. It’s like arguing with white supremacists, if you do so for any length of time without being accused of being a Jew, you are doing it wrong. Best compliment I ever had was being called a nigger lover, just because I attended a black Pentecostal Church ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/589 "2016-01-19T21:18:34Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Let me make it clear. Funding by the EU to create safe communities in Jordon where medical and education services can be provided. We must remember that we are not dealing with down and outs, many will have qualifications that can be used within the community. I personally do not want to see people living in badly run shanty towns. Better yet, why don’t these people go to Saudi Arabia? Specifically Mecca (millions of hotel rooms available). The culture is Moslem, so the young people will not have their morals corrupted by western women (who go about indecently clad). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/590 "2016-01-19T21:25:06Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Better yet, why don’t these people go to Saudi Arabia? Specifically Mecca (millions of hotel rooms available). The culture is Moslem, so the young people will not have their morals corrupted by western women (who go about indecently clad). I’ve suggested that in other threads. Apparently, it’s too hard or something. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/591 "2016-01-20T00:33:17Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Just a question. What would these haters of trans genders do if they came face to face with a unisexual ( someone who is physicaly both genders in the same body)? They exist naturally they are part of Gods creation That’s not the definition of unisexual as I know it. > **[Definition of UNISEXUAL](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unisexual)** > > of, relating to, or restricted to one sex:; male or female but not hermaphroditic; diclinous… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/592 "2016-01-20T01:31:26Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > That’s not the definition of unisexual as I know it. > > [Unisexual Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unisexual) sorry it should have been hermaphrodite ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/593 "2016-01-21T03:42:10Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > sorry it should have been hermaphrodite Quite simply, some haters consider intersex persons to be “pathetic birth defects and aberrations” or else “cursed by God.” At best, they consider them be exceptions who should be shoehorned into one gender or another, against their will if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/594 "2016-01-21T12:45:36Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Quite simply, some haters consider intersex persons to be “pathetic birth defects and aberrations” or else “cursed by God.” At best, they consider them be exceptions who should be shoehorned into one gender or another, against their will if necessary. Before meeting up with the EDL I was a Christian Homophobic bigot, it was through their LGTG group that I found out about intersex persons, far from being disgusted it helped me realise that sexuality was not A&B but A-Z and all shades in between. Thankfully now I am just a Christian who has no problem mixing with other faiths (I used to have a problem) ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/595 "2016-01-21T12:58:07Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > YASMIN ALIBHAI-BROWN: It is crucial that Muslim women learn English as without it they and their daughters are kept captive > Yasmin Alibhai-Brown believes PM is correct to bring up language issue > Says Muslim men are stripping away rights of their wives and daughters > David Cameron said that 190,000 Muslim women speak little or no English > Mrs Alibhai-Brown asks why David Cameron blames women for being unable to speak English when he allows single-sex faith schools to be built > > By Yasmin Alibhai-brown For The Daily Mail > > Published: 00:23, 19 January 2016 | Updated: 01:24, 19 January 2016 > Read more: [YASMIN ALIBHAI-BROWN: It is crucial that Muslim women learn English as without it they and their daughters are kept captive | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405763/YASMIN-ALIBHAI-BROWN-crucial-Muslim-women-learn-English-without-daughters-kept-captive.html#ixzz3xgEzomAR) > Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook > > At last the U.K. P.M. David Camoron has woken up to a problem that has been known for years. Germany and the rest of Europe must follow the U.K. example on this one. By not being allowed to read, write and speak the language of the country in which they dwell Muslim woman are being imprisoned by invisible bars and that is wrong. That might read as more thoughtful and caring of him if he wasn’t actually planning to [deport](http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/19/david-cameron-muslim-women-who-dont-learn-english-risk-deportation.html) Muslim women who don’t speak English to an “acceptable” standard. Even if the rest of the family do pass the tests, so are permitted to stay. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/596 "2016-01-21T16:29:07Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > That might read as more thoughtful and caring of him if he wasn’t actually planning to [deport](http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/19/david-cameron-muslim-women-who-dont-learn-english-risk-deportation.html) Muslim women who don’t speak English to an “acceptable” standard. Even if the rest of the family do pass the tests, so are permitted to stay. There is a practice by some Muslim men forbidding their woman to learn to read and write English. To quote a 12 year old Muslim girl Her mother was forbidden by her father from learning to read and write because it would reduce his power over her, the girl said that the only reason that her father allowed her to go to school was that he was afraid of going to prison. I agree that it would be wrong to deport just the woman (which I cannot see happening) I think the threat should be to deport both the man and the woman ( a threat that would not have to be carried out as the man would ensure that his wife learnt to read and write in English even out of self preservation) I think that this is going to be aimed more towards immigrants who will have to have a reasonable understanding of the English language before gaining entry. On our estate the Nepalese receive free English lessons and great pride is taken in their new language skills. I want to see Muslim woman enjoy the same pride in their new language skills. Camoron has some good ideas but is crap on implementation. It is over 10 years since my conversation with that 12 year old Muslim girl but I sill think of her and her mother and little sister with sadness but also with hope. I know that not all Muslim fathers are scum bags because of the young Muslim ladies going to university and joining the professions, but the scum bags do exists and need to be stamped on. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/597 "2016-01-21T16:34:16Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Better yet, why don’t these people go to Saudi Arabia? Specifically Mecca (millions of hotel rooms available). The culture is Moslem, so the young people will not have their morals corrupted by western women (who go about indecently clad). Because they can’t get refugee visas from Saudi Arabia, [only tourist visas or work permits.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34132308) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/598 "2016-01-21T16:35:09Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > There is a practice by some Muslim men forbidding their woman to learn to read and write English. To quote a 12 year old Muslim girl Her mother was forbidden by her father from learning to read and write because it would reduce his power over her, the girl said that the only reason that her father allowed her to go to school was that he was afraid of going to prison. I agree that it would be wrong to deport just the woman (which I cannot see happening) I think the threat should be to deport both the man and the woman ( a threat that would not have to be carried out as the man would ensure that his wife learnt to read and write in English even out of self preservation) I think that this is going to be aimed more towards immigrants who will have to have a reasonable understanding of the English language before gaining entry. On our estate the Nepalese receive free English lessons and great pride is taken in their new language skills. I want to see Muslim woman enjoy the same pride in their new language skills. > Camoron has some good ideas but is crap on implementation. > > It is over 10 years since my conversation with that 12 year old Muslim girl but I sill think of her and her mother and little sister with sadness but also with hope. I know that not all Muslim fathers are scum bags because of the young Muslim ladies going to university and joining the professions, but the scum bags do exists and need to be stamped on. What you are describing here is more cultural than religious, i.e. it has nothing to do with Islam but more to do with some rural cultures. You’ll find, if you look hard enough, that there are various other religions coming from the same cultural background who have similar thoughts on women and whether they should or shouldn’t learn or know how to read. Islam as a whole prizes itself on learning for both sexes…look at Iran, which has been fundamentalist Islam for decades now and yet has a very high literacy rate for both men and women. I am not a big fan of Iran, but that is certainly one of the things they should have a lot of pride in accomplishing…their current literacy rate is much higher than it was under the Shah, who was a secular ruler. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/599 "2016-01-21T17:18:30Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Because they can’t get refugee visas from Saudi Arabia, [only tourist visas or work permits.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34132308) All the people who landed in Greece had Greek refugee visas? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/600 "2016-01-21T17:32:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > All the people who landed in Greece had Greek refugee visas? Greece is part of the EU, and thus the Common European Asylum System. I imagine that some people have entered Greece without registering as refugees, but as doing so isn’t even an option in Saudi Arabia, the situations aren’t comparable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=31)