# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/601 "2016-01-21T17:58:47Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Greece is part of the EU, and thus the Common European Asylum System. I imagine that some people have entered Greece without registering as refugees, but as doing so isn’t even an option in Saudi Arabia, the situations aren’t comparable. It’s not possible to enter Saudi Arabia without registering as a refugee? I really don’t understand what you are saying. 500,000 people entered Greece over the summer, they couldn’t just enter Saudi Arabia? What would Saudi do, just shoot them at the border? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/602 "2016-01-21T18:19:10Z")
When you say they should just go to Saudi Arabia, can I assume you’ve done the tiniest bit of research to see if Saudi Arabia has taken any refugees? Or are you saying they should take ALL Middle East refugees? Fyi, SA did not sign the U.N. Refugee Convention. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/603 "2016-01-21T19:09:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It’s not possible to enter Saudi Arabia without registering as a refugee? I imagine that it’s possible. > [@Slash1972](#): > > I really don’t understand what you are saying. I’m saying that EU countries accept refugees, and Saudi Arabia does not. > [@Slash1972](#): > > 500,000 people entered Greece over the summer, they couldn’t just enter Saudi Arabia? What would Saudi do, just shoot them at the border? Well, if they enter Greece, then they register as refugees, as per the CEAS. They are protected by the laws of the EU and the UN, and they can move to other EU nations as necessary, so as to avoid hotspots like Hungary and countries having trouble affording to care for them, like Greece. If they enter Saudi Arabia, assuming they don’t get shot at the border, they are there illegally, and enjoy none of those legal protections. They are at the mercy of an authoritarian government with pronounced anti-foreigner policies. In the desert. Could a refugee and ignore all this and head for SA anyway? Sure. A refugee could hurl themselves into a volcano, too. In both cases, there are good reasons not to do so, and no good reasons to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/604 "2016-01-21T19:16:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > When you say they should just go to Saudi Arabia, can I assume you’ve done the tiniest bit of research to see if Saudi Arabia has taken any refugees? Or are you saying they should take ALL Middle East refugees? > > Fyi, SA did not sign the U.N. Refugee Convention. Well, my question was why DON’T they go to Saudi Arabia. The only answer so far was “Because they don’t have visas” Has Saudi Arabia taken in Syrian refugees in 2015? I don’t remember seeing lines of refugees travelling towards Tabuk or Jeddah. Were there any pictures of little boys drowned on their way to Saudi? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/605 "2016-01-21T19:23:04Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Better yet, why don’t these people go to Saudi Arabia? Specifically Mecca (millions of hotel rooms available). The culture is Moslem, so the young people will not have their morals corrupted by western women (who go about indecently clad). > [@Slash1972](#): > > I’ve suggested that in other threads. Apparently, it’s too hard or something. Saudi Arabia has taken in _relatives_ of people who _already have_ work permits for Saudi Arabia. They will not take in refugees under other categories. That represents a tiny fraction of the Syrian and other MENA refugees currently looking for a new country. As it is an absolute monarchy if the king says he doesn’t want to accept refugees they don’t. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/606 "2016-01-21T19:23:17Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I imagine that it’s possible. > > I’m saying that EU countries accept refugees, and Saudi Arabia does not. > > Well, if they enter Greece, then they register as refugees, as per the CEAS. They are protected by the laws of the EU and the UN, and they can move to other EU nations as necessary, so as to avoid hotspots like Hungary and countries having trouble affording to care for them, like Greece. > > If they enter Saudi Arabia, assuming they don’t get shot at the border, they are there illegally, and enjoy none of those legal protections. They are at the mercy of an authoritarian government with pronounced anti-foreigner policies. In the desert. > > Could a refugee and ignore all this and head for SA anyway? Sure. A refugee could hurl themselves into a volcano, too. In both cases, there are good reasons not to do so, and no good reasons to do so. Maybe I’ll join the ongoing protests over Saudi Arabia’s treatment of refugees. Can you tell me where they might be? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/607 "2016-01-21T19:26:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Saudi Arabia has taken in _relatives_ of people who _already have_ work permits for Saudi Arabia. They will not take in refugees under other categories. That represents a tiny fraction of the Syrian and other MENA refugees currently looking for a new country. > > As it is an absolute monarchy if the king says he doesn’t want to accept refugees they don’t. It’s that simple. Again, if a line of 20,000 refugees were to cross into Saudi Arabia, would they just shoot them on site? I seem to remember a big outcry when Hungary wanted to stop letting refugees in. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/608 "2016-01-21T19:30:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Has Saudi Arabia taken in Syrian refugees in 2015? So you haven’t done the slightest bit of looking. Pretty pathetic, dude. Yes, they’ve taken in refugees. Getting exact numbers and origins is difficult though. They seem to restrict it to people who have some family there already - SA has a very large foreign workforce so that’s less restrictive than you might imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/609 "2016-01-21T19:31:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe I’ll join the ongoing protests over Saudi Arabia’s treatment of refugees. Can you tell me where they might be? [On social media and op-ed pages, mostly.](http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/20/441457924/gulf-states-fend-off-criticism-about-doing-little-for-syrian-refugees) And as has been noted, the Gulf states _are_ taking a non-zero number of Syrians - but as workers (and families of workers), not refugees. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/610 "2016-01-21T19:38:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Again, if a line of 20,000 refugees were to cross into Saudi Arabia, would they just shoot them on site? Would you take your family there, in the hope that they wouldn’t shoot you, strand you in the desert, or [enslave you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_workers_in_Saudi_Arabia#Abuse_and_scandals), instead of heading for Turkey, Jordan, or Europe? I wouldn’t. What possible reason would you have? > [@](#): > > I seem to remember a big outcry when Hungary wanted to stop letting refugees in. Hungary doesn’t have that option, [under EU law.](http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-is-new/news/news/2015/20151210_3_en.htm) The Gulf states don’t have a similar obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/611 "2016-01-21T19:39:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So you haven’t done the slightest bit of looking. Pretty pathetic, dude. > > Yes, they’ve taken in refugees. Getting exact numbers and origins is difficult though. They seem to restrict it to people who have some family there already - SA has a very large foreign workforce so that’s less restrictive than you might imagine. That was more of a question for you. Yes, I know that there are “refugees” in Saudi Arabia. My question was more along the lines of WHEN did they go? What is their status? Have **Syrian** refugees with no family in Saudi Arabia gone to Saudi Arabia in **2015**? As you point out, exact numbers and origins are difficult to get. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/612 "2016-01-21T19:43:45Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [On social media and op-ed pages, mostly.](http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/20/441457924/gulf-states-fend-off-criticism-about-doing-little-for-syrian-refugees) So nowhere is what you are saying. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/613 "2016-01-21T19:52:23Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So nowhere is what you are saying. In 2016, social media isn’t “nowhere”, it’s a major venue for worldwide communications. If you want to hold a street protest demanding that Saudi Arabia sign the UN Convention on Refugees, go nuts. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/614 "2016-01-21T19:53:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That was more of a question for you. Yes, I know that there are “refugees” in Saudi Arabia. My question was more along the lines of WHEN did they go? What is their status? Have **Syrian** refugees with no family in Saudi Arabia gone to Saudi Arabia in **2015**? As you point out, exact numbers and origins are difficult to get. And so “why don’t they go to Saudi Arabia?” was some kind of rhetorical question? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/615 "2016-01-21T19:58:21Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Would you take your family there, in the hope that they wouldn’t shoot you, strand you in the desert, or [enslave you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_workers_in_Saudi_Arabia#Abuse_and_scandals), instead of heading for Turkey, Jordan, or Europe? I wouldn’t. What possible reason would you have? I see. So the answer is “Because Saudi Arabia is a desert shithole with horrible treatment of immigrants” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/616 "2016-01-21T19:59:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Again, if a line of 20,000 refugees were to cross into Saudi Arabia, would they just shoot them on site? They wouldn’t have to shoot them. Just leave them, ignore them, and let the desert kill them with thirst and heatstroke. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/617 "2016-01-21T20:02:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. So the answer is “Because Saudi Arabia is a desert shithole with horrible treatment of immigrants” Basically, yes - there’s an inhospitable climate, an inhospitable government, and much better choices in the area. And so, unsurprisingly, the refugees are making those better choices. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/618 "2016-01-21T20:09:09Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Would you take your family there, in the hope that they wouldn’t shoot you, strand you in the desert, or [enslave you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_workers_in_Saudi_Arabia#Abuse_and_scandals), instead of heading for Turkey, Jordan, or Europe? I wouldn’t. What possible reason would you have? I wouldn’t take my family anywhere, I would probably stay in my own country. If another civil war broke out in the US, I wouldn’t flee to Canada or Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/619 "2016-01-21T20:12:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I wouldn’t take my family anywhere, I would probably stay in my own country. If another civil war broke out in the US, I wouldn’t flee to Canada or Mexico. Er, ok, your call. Hopefully you & your family can avoid the barrel bombs, poison gas, and getting conscripted into fighting for either a ruthless dictator or radical Islamists. But, at least you’d get to die for nothing on your native soil, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/620 "2016-01-21T20:14:42Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Basically, yes - there’s an inhospitable climate, an inhospitable government, and much better choices in the area. And so, unsurprisingly, the refugees are making those better choices. Well, thanks for being honest. Most answers are only “They don’t have visas!” or “Saudi Arabia does take refugees” or “It’s too far” or other variations of the same theme, without stating the obvious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=32)