# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/621 "2016-01-21T20:22:22Z")
> [@XT](#): > > What you are describing here is more cultural than religious, i.e. it has nothing to do with Islam but more to do with some rural cultures. You’ll find, if you look hard enough, that there are various other religions coming from the same cultural background who have similar thoughts on women and whether they should or shouldn’t learn or know how to read. Islam as a whole prizes itself on learning for both sexes…look at Iran, which has been fundamentalist Islam for decades now and yet has a very high literacy rate for both men and women. I am not a big fan of Iran, but that is certainly one of the things they should have a lot of pride in accomplishing…their current literacy rate is much higher than it was under the Shah, who was a secular ruler. I am not saying that there are not problems within other groups there are some of the arranged marriages are arranged under so much pressure they are verging on forced marriages, thankfully the younger generations are starting to rebel, another is so called family honour not always resulting I deaths There are instance of young woman being raped but not reported due to so called family honour. This could sadly make Asian girls a target because there is a chance that it will not be reported. Their is a great deal to do, one of the reasons that we need immigration control ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/622 "2016-01-21T20:23:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, thanks for being honest. Most answers are only “They don’t have visas!” or “Saudi Arabia does take refugees” or “It’s too far” or other variations of the same theme, without stating the obvious. I’m not a fan of the Saudi government. If Saudi Arabia did accept refugees, I expect they’d get some number of them. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/623 "2016-01-22T08:37:08Z")
EXCLUSIVE: German government admits it cannot account for 600,000 of its 1.1million asylum seekers – and many could be using multiple identities to travel across Europe Germany government admits it cannot account for 600,000 asylum seekers That is more than than half of the 1.1million applications made in country Delays in processing applications may account for some of those missing Others may have gone to other EU countries, the Interior Ministry has said By Sam Tonkin For Mailonline Published: 21:32, 21 January 2016 | Updated: 07:24, 22 January 2016 Read more: [Germany admits it cannot account for half of its 1.1m asylum seekers | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410787/German-government-admits-account-600-000-1-1million-asylum-seekers-using-multiple-identities-travel-Europe.html#ixzz3xxWUF7q3) Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook My concern is that it only takes one in a thousand (600) to be ISIS killers and we have a problem, look at the rest of Europe and there is a possible 400,000 that cannot be accounted for bring the total through out Europe to 1 million, that means there could be 1,000 ISIS killers within Europe. I am talking of very small but possible percentages. The fact is we do not know and Europe should be very worried. Suddenly Trump does not sound so outrageous. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/624 "2016-01-22T08:44:44Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > … Suddenly Trump does not sound so outrageous. There may be an exact word to describe someone who advocates persecuting vast numbers of innocent, wretched and desperate people because a few of them might be dangerous. “Outrageous” doesn’t quite cut it. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/625 "2016-01-22T09:01:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There may be an exact word to describe someone who advocates persecuting vast numbers of innocent, wretched and desperate people because a few of them might be dangerous. “Outrageous” doesn’t quite cut it. Have you ever thought they may come to a town near you? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/626 "2016-01-22T09:13:47Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Have you ever thought they may come to a town near you? Yes. And then I remembered the thousands of greater threats to the welfare of me and mine that I have to accept every day, and told myself to stop being a cowardly twit. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/627 "2016-01-22T09:26:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There may be an exact word to describe someone who advocates persecuting vast numbers of innocent, wretched and desperate people because a few of them might be dangerous. “Outrageous” doesn’t quite cut it. K, what other dismissive labels can you come up with? Bigot? Racist? Fascist? I will expect something more creative from you. Why use the term persecute? Right now it’s chaos, these innocent, wretched and desperate people are thrown together with hordes of ‘economic migrants’ looking to rip the gold off our streets. There is just no infrastructure to process these vast numbers in a decent human worthy manner. The sysytem has collapsed. People are in cramped locations where all sorts of problems are just left to fester. No manpower, no authority to act. Plus no _will_ to act and make decisions, lest they be called “outrageous”. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/628 "2016-01-22T09:39:28Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > hordes of ‘economic migrants’ looking to rip the gold off our streets. Except that’s the polar opposite of the economic effect migrants have: > **[Why welcoming more refugees makes economic sense for Europe](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730383-800-why-welcoming-more-refugees-makes-economic-sense-for-europe/)** > > Europe's leaders are under pressure to accept 130,000 more refugees, mostly from Syria. It's not just the right thing to do, it makes economic sense “University of Oxford reported this year that letting in 260,000 immigrants a year could halve the UK’s public debt 50 years from now. “There are more than a dozen good studies now that point to a net positive effect of migrants on the economy,” says Goldin.” Curse those motivated, economy boosting, tax paying bastards! ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/629 "2016-01-22T09:39:48Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Yes. And then I remembered the thousands of greater threats to the welfare of me and mine that I have to accept every day, and told myself to stop being a cowardly twit. You speak for most on this site including me, we carry on with our lives, when the IRA bombed a pub I used to use I found another pub to drink in. When in my case the U.K. government is not acting fast enough to protect me and mine I believe I have to start making a noise. It is unbelievable that the U.K. government are discussing banning Trump from the U.K. while allowing people who left the U.K. to fight for ISIS to return unhindered and also allow hate preachers in to spread their poison. When my grand children aske me what did you do during the troubles Grandad, I want to be able to sat I got off my butt and protested, I do not want to say I just sat there and let it wash over me. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/630 "2016-01-22T10:00:37Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Except that’s the polar opposite of the economic effect migrants have: > > [https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730383-800-why-welcoming-more-refugees-makes-economic-sense-for-europe/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730383-800-why-welcoming-more-refugees-makes-economic-sense-for-europe/) > > “University of Oxford reported this year that letting in 260,000 immigrants a year could halve the UK’s public debt 50 years from now. “There are more than a dozen good studies now that point to a net positive effect of migrants on the economy,” says Goldin.” > > Curse those motivated, economy boosting, tax paying bastards! Oxford University homeland of the lefties where freedom of speech only exists if you agree with them. The U.K. cannot produce 260,000 jobs per year, this means that the great majority of these immigrants will remain unemployed for years to come putting a massive cost on the welfare system. We are talking about the population of a large new town every year, that means 4 new schools, 1 new hospital, 65,000 homes built every year just to look after the immigrants. In 50 years time we would have let in 13 million. Far from having the public debt it will more than likely bankrupt the country ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/631 "2016-01-22T10:07:10Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > K, what other dismissive labels can you come up with? > Bigot? Racist? Fascist? > I will expect something more creative from you. > > Why use the term persecute? > Right now it’s chaos, these innocent, wretched and desperate people are thrown together with hordes of ‘economic migrants’ looking to rip the gold off our streets. > > There is just no infrastructure to process these vast numbers in a decent human worthy manner. The sysytem has collapsed. People are in cramped locations where all sorts of problems are just left to fester. No manpower, no authority to act. Plus no _will_ to act and make decisions, lest they be called “outrageous”. The truth is you and yours are on the front line and I do not envy you, are we now finding out the truth of why Muslim woman are not allowed out by themselves is it about that in their culture it is not safe to do so ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/632 "2016-01-22T10:26:20Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > You speak for most on this site including me, we carry on with our lives, when the IRA bombed a pub I used to use I found another pub to drink in. So actually with the IRA you carried on with your life and refused to let the terrorists win. Whereas now you’d prefer to kneejerk with the response they would like you to have. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/633 "2016-01-22T10:30:07Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Oxford University homeland of the lefties where freedom of speech only exists if you agree with them. So it should be simple for you to find a better cite showing immigration having a negative net economic effect, right? Clearly Oxford university have got it completely wrong, the pinko fools that they are, so off you pop and find a meaningful piece of research which shows the truth\* \*i.e. preferably not a typo ridden EDL flier, or a Daily Mail “Questions to which the answer is no” misleading headline, because then I’ll have to point out the blatant errors in them, and you’ll end up getting all grumpy because you feel like an old fool. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/634 "2016-01-22T10:45:27Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Have you ever thought they may come to a town near you? Yes, but you know, the guy who [strangled two of my neighbors last week just three blocks from where I live](http://abc7chicago.com/news/person-of-interest-in-custody-after-mother-daughter-strangled-in-gary/1163692/) was born and raised in the US and I’m pretty sure not Muslim. Despite ISIS, you’re far more likely to be murdered by one of your own countrymen than a foreigner, even if some refugees are bad guys. Some people focus so much on the “outsider” that appears threatening that they ignore the danger that’s been living next door to them for years. Sure, let’s be cautious about newcomers, but let’s not get carried away or ignore other, more likely threats. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/635 "2016-01-22T10:56:58Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So it should be simple for you to find a better cite showing immigration having a negative net economic effect, right? Clearly Oxford university have got it completely wrong, the pinko fools that they are, so off you pop and find a meaningful piece of research which shows the truth\* > > \*i.e. preferably not a typo ridden EDL flier, or a Daily Mail “Questions to which the answer is no” misleading headline, because then I’ll have to point out the blatant errors in them, and you’ll end up getting all grumpy because you feel like an old fool. 1 I do not have to find another site basic math proves Oxford wrong 2 I quote from the Daily Mail because it is one of the few U.K. papers that report what is happening without having to resort to the comics. I suppose your required reading is the Morning Star. 3 I may have more years behind me than in front of me but I am no fool. I try to bring something to the table for discussion I am not an academic so no big words or mighty essays just a working mans thoughts. I notice that you prefer sarcasm rather that a constructive contribution to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/636 "2016-01-22T11:38:27Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > 1 I do not have to find another site basic math proves Oxford wrong Which part of “burden of proof” do you really not follow? It’s been explained to you in at least 3 threads now, and yet you constantly argue that your claims do not need proof. Well, sad news for you chum, but you do. Basic maths is something Oxfords quite good at, as indeed are the OECD who did another study with exactly the same result, as reported by that notorious pinko conservative MP Gavin Barwell, in that socialist rag the Daily Telegraph: > **[The truth about immigration: it's good for Britain](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10131876/The-truth-about-immigration-its-good-for-Britain.html)** > > There are valid concerns about population growth, public services and community cohesion – but the economic case for immigration is clear, writes Gavin Barwell MP. “migrants in the UK pay more in tax than they consume in public services (that’s not true of every migrant of course, but collectively they make a net contribution). Without them, we would have to make further cuts to public services or pay higher taxes or both” In a separate analysis, the same Stalinist rag reveals that immigrants caused a net gain of [£16.269 Billion to the UK economy](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100221789/immigration-and-the-british-economy-the-awful-truth-is-revealed/), concluding: “One of the world’s most credible economic analysts has concluded that because of immigration to the UK, British taxes are lower, spending is higher and the deficit is smaller.” Anyway, I leave you to keep ranting on about how your basic maths proves everyone else wrong (although for some strange reason you can’t quite locate any proof) ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/637 "2016-01-22T15:10:22Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Which part of “burden of proof” do you really not follow? It’s been explained to you in at least 3 threads now, and yet you constantly argue that your claims do not need proof. > > Well, sad news for you chum, but you do. Basic maths is something Oxfords quite good at, as indeed are the OECD who did another study with exactly the same result, as reported by that notorious pinko conservative MP Gavin Barwell, in that socialist rag the Daily Telegraph: > > [The truth about immigration: it's good for Britain](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10131876/The-truth-about-immigration-its-good-for-Britain.html) > > “migrants in the UK pay more in tax than they consume in public services (that’s not true of every migrant of course, but collectively they make a net contribution). Without them, we would have to make further cuts to public services or pay higher taxes or both” > > In a separate analysis, the same Stalinist rag reveals that immigrants caused a net gain of [£16.269 Billion to the UK economy](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100221789/immigration-and-the-british-economy-the-awful-truth-is-revealed/), concluding: > > “One of the world’s most credible economic analysts has concluded that because of immigration to the UK, British taxes are lower, spending is higher and the deficit is smaller.” > > Anyway, I leave you to keep ranting on about how your basic maths proves everyone else wrong (although for some strange reason you can’t quite locate any proof) And the cost of welfare, education, healing and housing for these 260,000 immigrants per year are you side stepping this one, after all it is a basic fact there has to be a cost ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/638 "2016-01-22T15:12:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, but you know, the guy who [strangled two of my neighbors last week just three blocks from where I live](http://abc7chicago.com/news/person-of-interest-in-custody-after-mother-daughter-strangled-in-gary/1163692/) was born and raised in the US and I’m pretty sure not Muslim. > > Despite ISIS, you’re far more likely to be murdered by one of your own countrymen than a foreigner, even if some refugees are bad guys. Some people focus so much on the “outsider” that appears threatening that they ignore the danger that’s been living next door to them for years. Sure, let’s be cautious about newcomers, but let’s not get carried away or ignore other, more likely threats. Get your meaning, we have our share of murders in the U.K. usually there is the victim and one or two killers. Our main threat is the mass murderer, the terrorist bombers and this is a real threat not imagined. Our security services are managing to foil attacks before they happen. The security services have commented that it is a matter of when not if there is a successful attack in the U.K. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/639 "2016-01-22T15:35:29Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > And the cost of welfare, education, healing and housing for these 260,000 immigrants per year are you side stepping this one, after all it is a basic fact there has to be a cost Sidestepping? I’ve given you multiple cites showing that your claims that immigrants drain resources is entirely wrong. Which part of the analysis that “migrants in the UK pay more in tax than they consume in public services” do you not understand? What do you think they meant by public services? That’s the cost of welfare, education, health and housing that you keep bringing up as if it hadn’t already been addressed. Either find something that supports your position, or just admit you are completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/640 "2016-01-22T16:40:01Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Have you ever thought they may come to a town near you? You mean like in Minnesota? With her community of Hmong refugees, Vietnamese refugees, Somalian refugees. I remember each time Minnesota was asked to take in more, the public editorials fretting over each one every time, the drastic effects that were bound to happen, Vietnamese dogs and Somali cats, living together. Is the bus driver Hmong, the police officer Mexican, the Walmart clerk Somali? Actually, no, they are Minnesotan. You betcha! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=33)