# Ok, so what the hell happened in Germany in NYE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538 "2016-01-08T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/141 "2016-01-09T21:15:11Z")
Some more than others. And the Russians/Japanese/Americans raped a lot more than the Germans or English. And schoolchildren of another religion have always been excused participation in British schools even the church schools. So no-one is _forced_. — Probably not excused in the exclusive jewish or muslim schools, since children of another religion would generally not be enrolled in such places; but even there they would not force anyone. I went to an RC school; I was excused religious participation on conscientious grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/142 "2016-01-09T21:16:03Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > I am sure many are, and in fact are harraga. They’re migrants per the cite I gave. It didn’t say undocumented. It doesn’t matter if they come from Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq or any other unstable hell hole in the region. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/143 "2016-01-09T21:17:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And some of the “crazy generous” settlements for women were mandated because until the 1970’s it was _legal_ to pay women less for the exact same work as men did in many places, and many professions were entirely barred to women. Women were less able to support themselves. I’m sure Tommy Manville’s ex-wives were facing sewing shirts in a garret. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/144 "2016-01-09T21:41:08Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > When you show the actual specific laws and compare the like to the like, super. Until then, i find ginorance and prejudiuced assertions sad. > > of course since there is not a single set of muslim values, any more than there is a single set of christian ones, this is very silly as an objective, but voila, so it is with those who have prejudices against others. Alright then, what do you see as commonalities of Muslim culture? What is the essence of Muslim belief? What do you see Shiria law as, and what sources or methods are using you using to assess its importance and influence in Muslim culture? As I have said before, if I am ignorant you can fight that with decent cites or some sort of explanation of how you want to define Muslim. If there are no commonalities among Muslims from these regions then show me how I am wrong. And, most importantly, **what sources are you using to establish your beliefs about Muslims**? Bonus points if you can do any of this without using the bigot, prejudice, racist card. Ivan Karamazov “intellectual” type of thinking where everything (everyone) is permitted but that shirks at the realities of what is encompassed within the term is no more enlightened to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lubricious\_Integument](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lubricious\_Integument](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lubricious_Integument)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/145 "2016-01-09T21:46:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > until the 1970’s it was _legal_ to pay women less for the exact same work as men Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act in 1963. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/146 "2016-01-09T21:48:32Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Scared of what exactly? What do you think is going to happen? Other than groups of a 100 or more assaulting women, having it swept under the rug and then told by internet sages it’s nothing to be concerned about? Absolutely nothing. I live in the US and in a state with adequate CCW laws. I don’t have to dial 9/11 out of fear to report a rape in progress. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/147 "2016-01-09T21:50:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Excuse me? Supporting a church via tax money is not a secular feature. Forcing all children to sing Anglican hymns whether or not they’re Anglican is forcing a religious practice on all. Neither of those is secular. If you wanna compare stuff like that to being jailed or worse for wearing the wrong thing, being a woman doing one of many “wrong” things, or having the audacity to say “allah sucks” well have fun :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/148 "2016-01-09T22:02:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Other than groups of a 100 or more assaulting women, having it swept under the rug and then told by internet sages it’s nothing to be concerned about? > > Absolutely nothing. I live in the US and in a state with adequate CCW laws. I don’t have to dial 9/11 out of fear to report a rape in progress. Add to this scenario that police officers were on the scene, overpowered, merely feet away and being taunted by the attackers who continued to strip women naked and, quote by one victim: “penetrate every orifice of my body with their fingers”. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/149 "2016-01-09T22:06:18Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If you wanna compare stuff like that to being jailed or worse for wearing the wrong thing, being a woman doing one of many “wrong” things, or having the audacity to say “allah sucks” well have fun :dubious: Um. I can be jailed for wearing the wrong thing. And I can be jailed for wearing clothing that is considered okay for men. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/150 "2016-01-09T22:06:56Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I’m sure Tommy Manville’s ex-wives were facing sewing shirts in a garret. Such laws are not really made for the wealthy, they’re made for the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/151 "2016-01-09T22:08:54Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If you wanna compare stuff like that to being jailed or worse for wearing the wrong thing, being a woman doing one of many “wrong” things, or having the audacity to say “allah sucks” well have fun :dubious: Look up what the suffragettes had to put up with. Not that long ago women in the west were penalized for wearing pants because those were men’s clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/152 "2016-01-09T22:09:42Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Indeed it does, but having a fixed term to a contracted marriage gives the Shia many advantages, such as not having to commit to a sale, and allowing two lonely people some mutual happiness without any break-up and bitterness. > The 3-day marriages might suit visitors to lovely Las Vegas. > > Oh balls. In Britain over a hundred years, my parents were divorced; my paternal grandparents were divorced; and my paternal great-grandparents separated ( and she moved back to Spain ) — and each time it was the woman’s decision. > And in America divorces were commonly allowed from the mid-19th century, including no-fault divorces, and in some of which states divorce settlements were mandated as crazily generous to women. Are people under the impression that Islam doesn’t allow divorce? While I’d hardly call it feminist(not that I’d call any major religion that) it has divorce. In fact, as Bernard Lewis and others have pointed out, a common complaint among Jewish and Christian community leaders of the Muslim Middle East was that so many of their women would conveniently “convert” to Islam to divorce their husbands because Islam offered women a better deal than Judaism(where they needed hubby’s permission) or Christian sects which simply prohibited it. Beyond that people seem to be under the impression that Saudi Arabia and Iran, with full Sharia rule, are the rule when they’re the extreme exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/153 "2016-01-09T22:10:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Um. I can be jailed for wearing the wrong thing. And I can be jailed for wearing clothing that is considered okay for men. Okay. Pick which country you wanna be teleported to wearing such attire. Pick your top 10 or 20. Pick your bottom (heh) 10 or 20 choices. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/154 "2016-01-09T22:11:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Look up what the suffragettes had to put up with. > > Not that long ago women in the west were penalized for wearing pants because those were men’s clothes. Time travel discussion are the previous generation or three over. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/155 "2016-01-09T22:14:46Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Alright then, what do you see as commonalities of Muslim culture? belief in the unicity of God and the prophet’s relevation. > [@](#): > > What is the essence of Muslim belief? The unicity of god, the tawheed. > [@](#): > > What do you see Shiria law as sharia, there is no ‘shiria’ - at least start to get that right. Religious tradition and law is like the christian set, a large, changing body of the interpretation and despite the pretensions of the Salafistses, varies with the regional Urf and the regional interpretations - even within the body of the theoligical reflections that is Shariah. this is different from the legal systems of the Islamic world, most of which are not any longer tied to the shariah at all, but are based on the Napoleonic code (and its interpretations, direclty or via the ottoman or the egyptian initial interpretations). This for the citizenship, the voting, the whole body of the economic law, for almost all things except the family law, and even there it depends. > [@](#): > > and what sources or methods are using you using to assess its importance and influence in Muslim culture? I do not consider this a useful idea, but the first step in removing ignorance is the removal of false ideas about the actual legal systems in application. Going on and on about “shariah law” as if it is an actual legal code and making comparison to American codified law betrays gross ignorance. > [@](#): > > If there are no commonalities among Muslims from these regions then show me how I am wrong. Showing negative is not a logical possibility, it is a logical error to demand it (not that I have said anything about “no commonalities” - either way in fact). > [@](#): > > And, most importantly, **what sources are you using to establish your beliefs about Muslims**? Life, as I am one and among them besides having a graduate degree, somewhat useless in it, the degree in the economics more interesting and more useful However to go beyond simple prejudice, you compare the Like to the Like, the country of the same income level to the country of the same income level, and the category to the category - not apples to beans. > [@Magiver](#): > > Other than groups of a 100 or more assaulting women, having it swept under the rug and then told by internet sages it’s nothing to be concerned about? > > Absolutely nothing. I live in the US and in a state with adequate CCW laws. I don’t have to dial 9/11 out of fear to report a rape in progress. [the germans](http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Germany/United-States/Crime)hardly need to adopt the american problems to solve a passing problem, unless they want to augment their murders level to the american level - increase it nineteen times at least, and of course rape is more common in the USA so … what the guns do for you takes great Belief. > [@billfish678](#): > > If you wanna compare stuff like that to being jailed or worse for wearing the wrong thing, Why would one compare that? It is not against the law to “wear the wrong thing” in but three muslim countires. Your gross prejudice in thinking the whole islamic world is Saudi Arabia, the Iran and the Sudan. What saying God sucks has to do with the subject is puzzling. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/156 "2016-01-09T22:16:17Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Without wanting to going into this extremely controversial discussion in detail: the ethnic makeup of Germany (and other European countries) will change dramatically. The power of the German economy will weaken as the productive part of the population ages while an ever increasing part of the population will be living off and demanding welfare. > > Germany today, at the beginning of 2016, is a deeply divided country. About ⅓ agrees with Merkel’s policy of unlimited immigration from the Middle East, North Africa and Afghanistan while the rest is living a nightmare. A considerable number of Germans have lost their faith in government, the state, the judicial system, the “elite”, as it were, and especially the media. > > Is there a danger of an imminent coup or collapse: no. But in 20 or 30 years, this part of the world will look very, very different. This development started decades ago, but the attacks in Cologne were surreal. > > Eastern Europeans currently consider Germany a lunatic asylum, run by lunatics - and I agree. Just mandate a generous “living wage.” No more poverty! ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/157 "2016-01-09T22:16:34Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Um. I can be jailed for wearing the wrong thing. And I can be jailed for wearing clothing that is considered okay for men. Just curious: What sort of clothing would that be? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/158 "2016-01-09T22:20:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Just mandate a generous “living wage.” No more poverty! This is already the law of the land in Germany and this also the reason why Arab refugees rather want to go to Germany than to Qatar, the United Arab Emirates or Bahrain (which are also very nice places and warmer in the winter). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/159 "2016-01-09T22:32:34Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > What saying God sucks has to do with the subject is puzzling. Because in a most western secular countries, even ones that might have an “official” religion, you could stroll around all day long with a shirt that said “Jesus sucks” all day long. You’d probably get some dirty looks but your chances of getting in big trouble with the locals or even worse, the legal authorities would be pretty darn low (or at least that is my understanding of things). On the other hand, try running around with an “Allah Sucks” in a random Muslim country. I seriously things would go so well either with the locals, or more importantly the legal authorities (again, my impression). But the main point was Broomsticks complaint. The observation that a mostly secular Christian country that sort of requires you to sing a Christian song is NOT totally secular is silly when you compare it to a supposedly secular Muslim country where being religiously offensive will get you in BIG trouble with locals and the legal authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538/160 "2016-01-09T22:38:39Z")
God in English. So I see this comes from the same understanding where you write nonsense about clothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-so-what-the-hell-happened-in-germany-in-nye/742538.md?page=9)