# OK, someone tell me why I should stop panicking. (NSA call database.) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368 "2006-05-11T14:15:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/181 "2006-05-15T16:45:14Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You are correct. My dislike for the tactics employed by **Scylla** , and my own emotions, got the better of me. The irritating part is that **Scylla** can make logical, compelling arguments when he wants to. As he was earlier. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/182 "2006-05-15T19:55:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How does [this blog](http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/05/federal_source_.html) from ABC’s Brian Ross make you feel? “Freedom of the Press? _Goodbye!_” (Though I’m sure an apologist will be by soon to tell us why this is all for our own good…) ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/183 "2006-05-16T01:14:32Z")
BTW, I cancelled my long-distance service with AT&T today and switched over to Qwest. Fucking bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/184 "2006-05-16T03:32:24Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > (Though I’m sure an apologist will be by soon to tell us why this is all for our own good…) I’m sorry but it’s for your own good. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/185 "2006-05-16T03:51:00Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The irritating part is that **Scylla** can make logical, compelling arguments when he wants to. As he was earlier. > > Oh well. Oh well is right. My arguments are “logical and compelling” to my liberal brethen in a direct proportion to their agreement with a liberal viewpoint, and I tend to be chastised when they are not. Do you think that this is a mischaracterization of what is occuring? Consider. I have not insulted **Hamlet.** I accepted the left leaning Mediawatch cite for what value it had. My cites were categorically denounced most rudely and insultingly by **Hamlet** , though I acknowledged their right-leaning slant. There was informational value in them as that is the source from which I got some of the arguments and cites for which I was earlier complimented. I quote Hamlet: > [@](#): > > I spent 10 minutes looking at that crap before drowning in idiotic rhetoric and hyperinflated egos. Is there a point in there somewhere, or is it just the typical crap? If you could, just boil it down for me, because, tonight, I’m not going through Rush’s blustering to try and find any nugget of facts Bear in mind that only one cite was to Rush Limbaugh and that had several good primary cites within it (which I pointed out.) In response to **Hamlet** I pointed out that it could hardly take ten minutes to scan the Rush cite and even summarized the cites (clearly I took liberties in what to summarize and how to present it, but I was mildly irked by the insulting and dismissive tone, and thought I was being somewhat humorous In response I am grossly insulted. I quote again: > [@](#): > > you and whoever your latest political foil is, can continue the brainless namecalling. > [@](#): > > You are the perfect parrot of a thoughtless partisan hack!!! I didn’t insult **Hamlet**. I didn’t dismiss a partisan cite when it contained value. Yet, for some reason you feel compelled to chastise me for dropping the goodwill and lowering the argument, while curiously ignoring the fact that the person who I’m in discussion with (who shares your political sympathies) is being, and started being dismissive and rude. But what do I know? I’m just a “brainless parrot” of a “partisan hack.” Funny that that doesn’t earn your notice or comment. Your criticism is lopsided. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/186 "2006-05-16T03:59:04Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You are correct. My dislike for the tactics employed by **Scylla** , and my own emotions, got the better of me. But apparently not enough to offer an apology. Your casual dismissal, rudeness, and insults did not get the better of me or my emotions. I guess I’m just a highly evolved entity from an emotional standpoint. While you may have boiled down my post to a single sentence, I would not have. There is more there than your rude, casual and insulting treatment suggests. And, since you specifically asked me to summarize it for you after you’re rude and hyperbolic dismissal, you can hardly reasonalby complain about the result. It was more courtesy than you were entitled based on your reply. Maybe we can still play nice, though. What do you think? Cross this off and move forward? Or not? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/187 "2006-05-16T04:54:36Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > But apparently not enough to offer an apology. Your casual dismissal, rudeness, and insults did not get the better of me or my emotions. > > I guess I’m just a highly evolved entity from an emotional standpoint. Now that’s [comedy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6786908&postcount=56)! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/188 "2006-05-16T12:25:11Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > But apparently not enough to offer an apology. Your casual dismissal, rudeness, and insults did not get the better of me or my emotions. > > I guess I’m just a highly evolved entity from an emotional standpoint. I’m sorry I was rude and insulting to you. In the Pit. On a message board know for its snarky author. Maybe you could confine yourself to MPSIMS or maybe the boards at Big Fluffy Puppy weekly, until you get over your case of the vapors. You are one person on this board I ever thought would hide behind the “I’m so offended, I can’t go on” drama queen crap. The guy who proudly proclaims himself an asshole? The guy who can throw down with the best of them? I’ll tell you what Little Princess Sunshine, I am sorry that I started with the insults, because it damaged my argument, just as **bup** said. However, you are also correct that I started the insults, and, for that, I am sorry to you too. From our prior dealings, I honestly thought you could take it without even batting an eye, and even throw some back. And I do get frustrated spending my time researching an issue, only to have it dismissed with partisan hot air instead of argument. > [@Scylla](#): > > While you may have boiled down my post to a single sentence, I would not have. There is more there than your rude, casual and insulting treatment suggests. And, since you specifically asked me to summarize it for you after you’re rude and hyperbolic dismissal, you can hardly reasonalby complain about the result. It was more courtesy than you were entitled based on your reply. When you get done complaining about how cruel and mean I am, please explain where I was wrong about dismissing your arguments. Teddy Kennedy is an asshole is not a valid argument, nor are the other ones I responded to. If I missed a valid argument, please, by all means, point it out to me. > [@Scylla](#): > > Maybe we can still play nice, though. What do you think? Cross this off and move forward? Or not? My answers in this post have been mean and insulting too. That is because this is the Pit, on a message board, and I’m dealing with you, **Scylla**. Were this discussion going on in GD, in real life, or with someone who I knew couldn’t handle insults, I never would have started, or even continued, with them. I am absolutely stunned that you would have ever taken true offense at a slight message board flaming, and if, for whatever reason you did, I do apologize. If you want to get back to a completely insult free discussion, feel free to respond to this edited post of mine: > [@Hamlet](#): > > You can also find child porn, prescription medication, and stolen property on the internet, so it’s OK? Members of the public can break into my house and steal my stuff, so the government should be able to also? Completely meaningless. > > and > > Databases and data mining aren’t illegal. Using evidence illegally obtained is. It’s these subtle … differences that matter. > > and > > Now, to get to the issue, what to you consider “other lawful authorization” that means the NSA’s did not violate this particular law. Asking? President Bush says so? What are you hanging your hat on to make this argument, because I’ve never seen a court accept “we wanted it” to be “other lawful authorization”. > > and > > The Bush administration has not been accused of wiretapping every single telephone call made in America. Yet. > > and > > What are you saying, then? Why bring it up, over and over again? > > But it is also illegal for the telephone company to turn over those records to the government without a court order. What I think you are trying to say is also an argument in the _Smith v. Maryland_ case, that, since the telephone company has access to the information about who and where you dialed, you don’t have a reasonable expectation of privacy in it. Which is an argument the majority accepted, which is why I stated it may very well be constitutional. > > In fact, it is the same argument, but it still does nothing about the statutory violations. > > and > > And, as we discussed before, you have George Tenet, and Michael Hayden testifying that Echelon (whatever it is) has not monitored US citizens without court orders. > Of course, it’s absurb. To think that when you voluntarily give up a bit of your privacy, you must give it all up to the government is patently absurd. > > Well, not in the USA Today article, but the NYT article, and the white house has admitted, the NSA has wiretapped US citizens. > > and > > Here’s how I would’ve boiled it down, leaving out the partisan rhetoric, bloviating, Clinton did it!, Clinton did it, and irrelevant side topics: > > **Calea, under it’s statute, allows for the government to obtain telephone records not only with a court order, but also with any "other lawful authorization."** > > One sentence would’ve sufficed, because it is the only salient point in all your rhetoric and Democrat bashing. I look forward to a productive, intelligent, interesting, yet not completely snark free discussion. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/189 "2006-05-16T17:22:19Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Now that’s [comedy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6786908&postcount=56)! Funny you should bring that up. He _still_ hasn’t bothered to answer my [request to use that as my .sig.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6812942&postcount=314) Oh, well. I still have the one from **Giraffe**. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/190 "2006-05-16T18:27:47Z")
If **Scylla** chooses to play the wounded pussy role, nobody should be surprised. It’s the next step in the apologista handbook. Got no real argument? Try Clinton (or some other proxy for a tu quoque). Suggest that we need to wait because we don’t have the full picture. Try appeals to patriotism or charges of abetting terrorism. Try crying foul about the method, such as blaming the liberal media. Insist that this is a separate incident from all the others, and especially the work of one bad apple if possible. All else fails, cry out for bipartisan good will, a forward-looking approach to the problem, and/or appeals to the common decency (just pretend that you didn’t shit all over everyone else during the steps leading up to this last ditch). **Scylla’s** arguments, such as “You’re just upset about this because you hate Bush” are offensive in and of themselves. If he opts not to put any profanity in between his offensive statements, that doesn’t make him a thoughtful guy. One may smile and smile and be a villain. I hate thinking that anyone would feel bad about throwing insults back at the guy. His playing the sniveling lightweight in return, I’m not surprised about. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/191 "2006-05-16T19:02:49Z")
You left out “As you know, there is an ongoing legal investigation into this matter, and it would not be proper to comment on it at this time.” Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/192 "2006-05-16T19:32:19Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > And since the paper has announced that Qwest is not co-operating with the NSA, terrorists are able to “hide” by using Qwest. Wait. So you think that the NSA is going to let a simple thing like Qwest denying them access keep the US from monitoring call made on the Qwest network? I don’t know the ins-ands-outs of the technology involved (if I did I’d either be working for the NSA or dead), but it seems to me that such a piddling thing as non-compliance would slow down the NSA about as long as it takes a GI to photograph a naked muslim man with panties on his head. “Smile! Say ALLAH!” \*\ \* Done and done. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/193 "2006-05-16T19:57:25Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I hate thinking that anyone would feel bad about throwing insults back at the guy. His playing the sniveling lightweight in return, I’m not surprised about. Not feeling bad; just noting that the discussion had been getting somewhere up until that point. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/194 "2006-05-17T01:00:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Funny you should bring that up. He _still_ hasn’t bothered to answer my [request to use that as my .sig.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6812942&postcount=314) Go for it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/195 "2006-05-17T01:13:33Z")
_“The activities I have authorized make it more likely that killers like these 9/11 hijackers will be identified and located in time. And the activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad.” [President Bush, 12/17/05]_ So how many terrorists have we caught? Or are we all now suspected killers? It’s the bogeyman gambit. _“The law enforcement and counterterrorism officials said the program had uncovered no active Qaeda networks inside the United States planning attacks. ‘There were no imminent plots - not inside the United States,’ the former F.B.I. official said.” [New York Times, 1/17/06]_ I see, it was a total waste of time and money. _“Another very important point to remember is that we have to have a reasonable basis to conclude that one party to the communication is a member of al Qaeda, affiliated with al Qaeda, or a member of an organization affiliated with al Qaeda, or working in support of al Qaeda.” [Attorney General Gonzales, 12/19/05]_ So how many million of us are now suspected enemy agents? _“It is very limited in nature.” [Scott McClellan, 1/3/06]_ OK, it’s limited only to those who use a phone. Now to the “but Clinton did it too” argument… What Drudge says: - Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”\* What Clinton **actually** signed: - Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.\* That section requires the Attorney General to certify is the search **will not** involve “the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person.” That means U.S. citizens or anyone inside of the United States. The entire controversy about Bush’s program is that, for the first time ever, allows warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens and other people inside of the United States. Clinton’s 1995 executive order did not authorize that. The distinction is clear. The Clinton administration viewed FISA, a criminal statute, as the law. The Bush administration viewed FISA as a set of recommendations they could ignore. As to the Echelon Argument, or “we been doing it all along anyway”… Another variation of the “Clinton did it” argument involves a top-secret surveillance program employed by the Clinton administration, code-named Echelon. The conservative outlet NewsMax presents the basic case: \*“During the 1990’s under President Clinton, the National Security Agency monitored millions of private phone calls placed by U.S. citizens and citizens of other countries under a super secret program code-named Echelon…all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.” \* **This is false**. The Echelon program complied with FISA. Before any conversations of U.S. persons were targeted, a **FISA warrant** was obtained. Then-CIA director George Tenet testified to this before Congress on 4/12/00: _“We do not collect against U.S. persons unless they are agents of a foreign power as that term is defined in the law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department.”_ I’m sure we are all well aware that in his speeches, Bush claimed there was no wiretapping going on without a warrant, and then we found out it was happening. Then he claimed there was no data mining or fishing expedition, and now we know there is. If it was all legal and above board, why not just say so instead of denying it? Why not go to the FISA court, since the FISA law is so damn easy to comply with? If it is so legal and proper, why is the Dept of Justice investigation being blocked? Why is the FCC commissioner calling for an investigation? Something stinks. Toss in the recent news media claims about their sources being monitored for what may be political enemies and it just stinks even more. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/196 "2006-05-17T01:17:11Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m sorry I was rude and insulting to you. In the Pit. On a message board know for its snarky author. Maybe you could confine yourself to MPSIMS or maybe the boards at Big Fluffy Puppy weekly, until you get over your case of the vapors. My sensibilities survived. I figured that since you and Frank the Tank were lamenting my behavior I might as well point out, that in fact, I maintained the moral highground, while you through insults and lowered the tone of the discussion to typical pit level. It is a proud, yet sad and lonely thing to be Scylla, and stand alone on such moral heights unattainable by the those such as yourself that cluster to me, like so many moths to the flame, only to be burned through their own foolishness and cast down… [sigh] Ah well. > [@](#): > > The guy who can throw down with the best of them? It is true that I am both formidable and might. > [@](#): > > I’ll tell you what Little Princess Sunshine, I am sorry that I started with the insults, because it damaged my argument, just as **bup** said. However, you are also correct that I started the insults, and, for that, I am sorry to you too. You are pardoned. > [@](#): > > From our prior dealings, I honestly thought you could take it without even batting an eye, and even throw some back. And I do get frustrated spending my time researching an issue, only to have it dismissed with partisan hot air instead of argument. Ok. Seriously. Not offended. Not worried. If I had thrown back at you then I couldn’t claim the moral highground and look all wounded and wronged and whatnot, now could I? If you feel bad, I can gratuitously insult you. I’d do that. As a favor. > [@](#): > > When you get done complaining about how cruel and mean I am, please explain where I was wrong about dismissing your arguments. Teddy Kennedy is an asshole is not a valid argument, nor are the other ones I responded to. If I missed a valid argument, please, by all means, point it out to me. Ok. This may seem obvious to you, but it’s a bit of a peccadillo to me. Quite a few people in this thread have used this issue primarily as a political issue. To use it to cast aspersions solely on Bush, or Repbublicans, or to claim a moral bully pulpit is to misrepresent what is actually occuring. To lie. Or, to be willfully ignorant. If we take that tact, if we pursue and “It is all Bush/Republicans fault,” If we go with Pelosi or Kennedy or Hentor than the obvious solution to the problem is to vote the evil Republicans out and replace them with Democrats so that it will all get fixed. Since the Democrats are equally culpable in this mess, that is a false solution and a gross understatement of the risks and dangers inherent in the issue. The fact is, and I think you agree, that this problem of technology and easy access to information, the abuses and potential risks to our freedoms transcends party politics. Therefore, those that misrepresent the situation and use it to political effect or to gain power need to be roundly denounced. It seems logical that those that would misrepresent the problem for political gain or least likely to be trustworthy with fixing it. > [@](#): > > I am absolutely stunned that you would have ever taken true offense at a slight message board flaming, and if, for whatever reason you did, I do apologize. I honestly didn’t. > [@](#): > > I look forward to a productive, intelligent, interesting, yet not completely snark free discussion. Chucklehead. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/197 "2006-05-17T05:07:41Z")
[Bush agrees to review of spy program](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060517/pl_nm/security_nsa_dc_4) > [@](#): > > The White House, in an abrupt reversal, has agreed to let the full Senate and House of Representatives intelligence committees review President George W. Bush’s domestic spying program, lawmakers said on Tuesday. > > The Republican chairmen of the Senate and House panels disclosed the shift two days before a Senate confirmation hearing for Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden as the new > CIA director, which is expected to be dominated by concern over the program. Openess from the Bush administration? At Midnight, on a weekday? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/198 "2006-05-17T05:12:06Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > … Frank the Tank … Where’s the bemused smiley? You were the one who chose to send the (hitherto quite aerified in spots) discussion in the direction of politics, by implying/stating that the concerns of the left are solely due to political concerns, rather than to the ramifications of such actions on the nation as a nation. You were, at the time I made my comment, actually arguing the facts, not simply claiming that your opponent’s prime concern was to hurt the administration/Republicans. P.S. Rush likes to claim that he is merely an entertainer. It is common courtesy for you to condense his entertaining bloviation down to something that will serve as a cite of sorts. That is, if you choose to use an entertainer as a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/199 "2006-05-17T12:53:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Bush agrees to review of spy program](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060517/pl_nm/security_nsa_dc_4) > Openess from the Bush administration? > At Midnight, on a weekday? 😕 I thought they only flip-flopped on Fridays after 5pm? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368/200 "2006-05-17T13:43:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > To use it to cast aspersions solely on Bush, or Repbublicans, or to claim a moral bully pulpit is to misrepresent what is actually occuring. To lie. Or, to be willfully ignorant How so? What did I miss that makes it not Bush’ fault? > [@Scylla](#): > > Since the Democrats are equally culpable in this mess, that is a false solution and a gross understatement of the risks and dangers inherent in the issue. I guess I _did_ miss something. I challenge that claim. > [@](#): > > The fact is, and I think you agree, that this problem of technology and easy access to information, the abuses and potential risks to our freedoms transcends party politics. OK, it’s more important to fix the problem. I don’t see why it can’t also be honestly used to attack what I see as a corrupt political machine. This is bigger than esy access to information being abused. This is Bush continuing a pattern of redefining what the presidency is, and seeing his power as limitless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-someone-tell-me-why-i-should-stop-panicking-nsa-call-database/356368.md?page=11)