# OK, South Park has gone too far now. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412 "2005-03-14T04:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/41 "2005-03-14T15:00:25Z")
Absolutely. It would have been funny and really great satire IMO to have Kyle do well as Jew playing basketball. To have Cartman bet on Kyle BECAUSE Kyle’s a Jew and then when Kyle asks why, have Cartman tell him, “it’s because you’re a Jew and everybody knows that the one thing Jews love more that money is Round Ball.” Real satire would have been having Kyle be REALLY good at Basketball because he was a Jew and Jews DOMINATED the sport at one time. That would’ve caused viewers like **Hail Ants** head to explode as he watched his 99% statistical “truth” crushed under the history of the sport…as he AND Kyle “learn” something. But that would have required the boys from South Park avoiding going for the easy shot. I fail to see how feeding into sterotypes without ultimately showing them to be wrong, is considered great satire. Being “anti-PC” alone, is not satire. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/42 "2005-03-14T15:17:02Z")
Not every episode of South Park has well-done satire-- but the episodes that do often score points. The episode about Mr. Garrison’s sex change was less about transgender reassignment than the notion that cosmetic surgery in general can miraculously cure people’s unhappiness with their sexual, racial, physical or transpecies identities. I’m hugely ambivalent about such surgeries myself, and taking such attitudes to the (il)logical extreme is a good way to explore such issues. The parts about Mr. Garrison’s sex change focused on the fact that he’s a selfish, stupid, crude and bigoted loon-- NOT because he’s transgendered or gay, but because he’s a fucking nutbag. He didn’t even discuss his sex change with Mr. Slave! The funniest thing about this episode was the rest of the cast’s refusal to interact with him as he was going around misconstruing things: “I’m staying out of this.” The soothing, seemingly benevolent cosmetic surgeon was shown to be a preying opportunist. People who eat during South Park have but themselves to blame for the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/43 "2005-03-14T15:23:20Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Here’s a little hint: SubGenius initially deprograms you of a lot of silly ideas are unavoidable in modern America. THAT is the deeper meaning of “fuck 'em if hey can’t take a joke.” Ideally, SubGenius then deprograms you of itself, so that you don’t walk around arrogantly spouting Church catchphrases and giving the impression to all and sundry that you are one of those arrogant, dateless dweebs who lives in his parents’ basement and bases his self-image on something like The Church of SubGenius. Bravo, **Scumpup**. “Bob”'s greatest commandment was “Kill Me!” > [@Eve](#): > > See, this is why I don’t post much anymore—I come here for diversion and amusement, and I just wind up upsetting myself even more. We all miss you, **Eve**! But you gotta do what you gotta do. If I wasn’t such a slavering addict, I might do something similar. Of course, no one would miss me. IMHO, _South Park_ hasn’t been funny in about five years. Occasionally I’ll tune in because I kind of think I have to, but I’m always disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/44 "2005-03-14T15:32:54Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > To use this last episode as an example, they made several things brutally clear: > [ul][li]A sex change does **NOT** really make you a woman, but a disfigured man that sort of looks like one (it doesn’t change your genetics)[/li][li]That this whole ‘transgendered individuals rights’ thing is complete politically correct bullshit[/li][li]That pro-choice or pro-life, getting an abortion **can** mean ‘scrambling its brains’ because that’s what is physically done during one method[/li][li]Like it or not the stereotype of blacks being good at basketball and jewish people not is statistacally about 99% true[/li][/ul] That sort of thing is the typical knee-jerk reaction, “obvious”, but in fact wrong. In this case “political correctness” is simply being educated. You misunderstand sexual identity (this is not just my opinion, how sexual identity is determined is something scientists have actually looked into). Your point about blacks being good at basketball is almost a meaningless statement. If you mean that blacks have some sort of unfair genetic advantage, then provide a cite for that. If you mean that there is no real advantage, but for some reason blacks excel in basketball, then I agree. Their advantage seems to be a byproduct of other opportunities not available for poor, black, urban youth. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/45 "2005-03-14T15:32:59Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > The soothing, seemingly benevolent cosmetic surgeon was shown to be a preying opportunist. Dr. Stanley Biber is also a [real person](http://www.moss-fritch.com/biber.htm), and I hope _he_ sues their asses, for the words they put in his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/46 "2005-03-14T15:36:14Z")
I find SP to be sophomoric and pointless. Yes, I believe they’re trying to be satirical. I also believe that the sheer stupidity of it all ruins that attempt. Far better to attempt something intelligent and fail than go for the cheap and easy and succeed. Really, it’s yet another reason I stopped watching television. There’s no longer even an attempt at true wit. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/47 "2005-03-14T15:40:59Z")
[QUOTE=Hail Ants] [ul][li]A sex change does **NOT** really make you a woman, but a disfigured man that sort of looks like one (it doesn’t change your genetics)[/li][li]That this whole ‘transgendered individuals rights’ thing is complete politically correct bullshit[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] Oh, yes, thanks, Matt and Trey, for setting us back 25 years and making it OK to ignore all the scientific studies on transsexualism. I guess Colorado wasn’t big enough for Matt and Trey and those “surgically mutilated freaks” they hate so much. Exactly which of my “transgendered individuals rights” are bullshit, may I be so forward as to ask? ---
**Author:** ![furthur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@furthur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furthur)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/48 "2005-03-14T15:43:14Z")
/hijack > [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > I believe the reason why South Park sometimes makes me laugh and sometimes makes me angry is that the writers are Middle Americans. Now, I am not trying to be insulting, but the impression I get from watching both shows like South Park, and the complete other end of the political spectrum comic strip Mallard Fillmore is the following: > > “I know perfectly well that people who disagree with me have a good point, but… > Ew! Men who want to be women! that’s disgusting.” combined with a little: “At the end of the day, I want to sit down and watch brain numbing tv. I am angry that I see social issue discussed everywhere, and I am disgusted by the fact that they are produced by people on the coast, not people who share my viewpoints.” > > They understand intellectually that these are not men who want to be women, but women born into the wrong bodies, but that doesn’t stop them from being disgusted by the idea. Then again, I could simply be misreading the situation, and am completely off my rocker. I find it incredibly disturbing that you’re willing to tar every person who lives in the Flyover States with the same brush. I’m from the Heartland, yes, about as much as you can get. However, I _do_ actually prefer my television to be other than brain-numbing, I _do_ like to consider social issues daily, and I don’t particularly care if the people who produce it are on the coast or not. Nor do I assume that the place where people live automatically determines their political views – as apparently, you do. I do NOT have a bigoted view against gay and transgendered people simply because I happen to live in the middle of Illinois. And shockingly enough, I’m not alone. Many other Midwesterners share these characteristics; many undoubtedly do not. People differ, regardless of their location. Moreover, Trey Parker and Matt Stone do not necessarily speak for all Midwesterners simply because they live in Colorado. You’re taking a seriously offensive attitude, dude. Please have the freedom of mind to take people individually, on their own merits, rather than espousing the bigoted attitude yourself that Midwesterners are all the same – and an unenlightened, prejudiced same as well. Sorry for the hijack, but this kind of crap really makes me mad. /end hijack I enjoy South Park most of the time. Sometimes their satire can be trenchant and funny; sometimes they miss the mark and manage mostly to be crude and offensive. I don’t think they mind either way, frankly. The person who called them “angry kids” is so right. They’re cruel but sometimes clever, and when they get things right, boy is it funny. And when they manage to offend, they do so completely. The episode with Cartman edging across the stage naked, though? Gold. 😃 Mrs. Furthur ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/49 "2005-03-14T15:46:15Z")
(slaps **Hail Ants** with glove, hands his card to him) (walks over to **Eve** , bows, tips his hit) In your defense, madam. (walks away) ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/50 "2005-03-14T15:49:00Z")
“Hello. I’m **Jonathan Chance** and I’ve stopped watching television because it’s witless, sophomoric and pointless. And yet I must comment on a television episode I haven’t even seen because my uninformed opinion is pithy.” Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/51 "2005-03-14T15:50:16Z")
I think people still really don’t get South Park. They often pick the wrong side of an argument, just for the sake of showing how idiotic this stance is. I haven’t seen this episode yet, but I think that instead of Parker and Stone making fun or insulting transsexuals, are making fun of people having these judgements. I don’t know how to clearly express this, but I think they often play Devil’s advocate to show how stupid that Devil is. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/52 "2005-03-14T15:51:23Z")
I’m actually pretty surprised that pro-life Dopers wouldn’t find it brutally funny that liberal-cipher Mr. Garrison is excited about becoming a woman mainly so he can experience having an abortion. I admit on this episode I cold see the preachy moral coming a mile away, but it was still pretty amusing in the interim, and their point is at least worth considering in a satirical way. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/53 "2005-03-14T15:51:49Z")
Thanks, **Mrs. Further**. Isn’t it funny that those who decry stereotypes are so quick to employ them when it suits their views? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/54 "2005-03-14T16:04:34Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > “Hello. I’m **Jonathan Chance** and I’ve stopped watching television because it’s witless, sophomoric and pointless. And yet I must comment on a television episode I haven’t even seen because my uninformed opinion is pithy.” > > Yeesh. No, you go too far (or I didn’t make myself clear). I find SP itself to be pointless and childlike, not just an episode. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/55 "2005-03-14T16:04:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I think people still really don’t get South Park. > They often pick the wrong side of an argument, just for the sake of showing how idiotic this stance is. I haven’t seen this episode yet, but I think that instead of Parker and Stone making fun or insulting transsexuals, are making fun of people having these judgements. > I don’t know how to clearly express this, but I think they often play Devil’s advocate to show how stupid that Devil is. So what you’re saying is **Hail Ants** is the type of person South Park is mocking? ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/56 "2005-03-14T16:10:29Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > So what you’re saying is **Hail Ants** is the type of person South Park is mocking? Well, if [N]Hail Ants\*\* means these statements : \* - A sex change does NOT really make you a woman, but a disfigured man that sort of looks like one (it doesn’t change your genetics) - That this whole ‘transgendered individuals rights’ thing is complete politically correct bullshit - That pro-choice or pro-life, getting an abortion can mean ‘scrambling its brains’ because that’s what is physically done during one method - Like it or not the stereotype of blacks being good at basketball and jewish people not is statistacally about 99% true\* than yes, that is what South Park is making fun of. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/57 "2005-03-14T16:10:36Z")
There are generally two types of South Park episodes. The first are heavily satirical focusing on one issue and allowing the writers to convey a point that they want to. These are usually lame and decidedly unfunny (Child Abductio Is Not Funny). The second are the episodes that aren’t satirical and are generally just funny. (Bebe’s Boobs Destroy Society sans the last 5 minutes, Good Times With Weapons again sans the last 5 minutes and Casa Bonita.) From reading this thread it seems like this episode falls squarely in type 1 and as such was most likely not funny. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/58 "2005-03-14T16:16:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There are generally two types of South Park episodes. The first are heavily satirical focusing on one issue and allowing the writers to convey a point that they want to. These are usually lame and decidedly unfunny (Child Abduction Is Not Funny). Satire is often hit-and-miss. But I defy you not to have found “South Park Critter Christmas” or “Cartman joins NAMBLA” hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![whistlepig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@whistlepig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whistlepig)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/59 "2005-03-14T16:30:44Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Dr. Stanley Biber is also a [real person](http://www.moss-fritch.com/biber.htm), and I hope _he_ sues their asses, for the words they put in his mouth. Um, the page you cite is supposedly from the New York Times and yet the first sentence mispells “gargoyles” as “gargles” and “plains” as “Plaines”. whistlepig ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/60 "2005-03-14T16:32:31Z")
When furthur accused me of being racist, I can see his point. I think of this attitude of being prevalent in the heartland of America, but I am wrong. I believe this attitude exists, but the restraining it by definition to “Middle America" is stupid of me. I have started a thread on my attitude towards this subject at: [Am I horribly, horribly insane re: South Parks writer’s attitude?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=306909) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412.md?page=4)