# OK, South Park has gone too far now. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412 "2005-03-14T04:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/61 "2005-03-14T16:45:28Z")
> [@whistlepig](#): > > Um, the page you cite is supposedly from the New York Times and yet the first sentence mispells “gargoyles” as “gargles” and “plains” as “Plaines”. > > whistlepig . . . Which does not negate Dr. Stanley Biber being a real person and a very well-known surgeon in the TG community—in _Colorado_, which evidentally got under the _South Park_ers’ skin. Google him. Considering what they had him saying, I think he has a good lawsuit on his hands. They weren’t just making fun of him (like Sally Struthers’ being fat, which is also “hilarious”), they had him spouting factually incorrect, anti-transsexual propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/62 "2005-03-14T16:46:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > People who can’t appreciate _South Park_ are probably the same kind of pathetic humor-impaired Pinks who can’t appreciate _National Lampoon._ Yes, that’s it. If we don’t like cheap toilet humor and uninspired, obvious punchlines to infantile jokes, we must be “…pathetic humor-impaired Pinks…” :rolleyes: Humor takes more than just a willingness to skewer sacred cows and roast them over the fire. It also takes timing and finesse. _Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb_, Terry Gilliam’s _Brazil_, or Caro & Jeunet’s _Delicatessen_ are classic examples of political correctness-defying satire that is funny and inventive. “South Park”, in contrast, is simple-minded and obvious; an appeal to the mentality of “if it’s shocking or involves bodily fluids, it must be funny.” Swiftian parodies they are not. I’d be a lot more impressed if they could manage an R-rated (or X-rated) variation on “The Simpsons” instead of wheeling out the obvious sacrifical lambs and anal-raping them with red-hot pokers in hopes of getting a shocked laugh now and again. South Park is to real satire as Chris Rock is to Lenny Bruce. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/63 "2005-03-14T17:06:31Z")
Here’s my take on the episode of South Park in question. Bear with me, it rambles a bit. Mr. Garrison is _not_ transgendered. He never, that I can recall, expressed the notion that he was a woman trapped in a man’s body. He is, instead, a very screwed up individual. To wit, he was devastated that his father never molested him as a child. Then comes along Kyle, who, in my opinion, really represents the transgendered. He feels like a tall, black kid. He’s always felt like one. The doctor surgically alters him so that he looks like on the outside how he feels on the inside. Sadly, he only looks like how he feels; it’s all form, and no function. He can’t play basketball with his new body. While a post-op, transsexual has a vagina, of sorts, she still lacks the internal organs most women have (uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries, etc.). She can’t play basketball–have children-- (historically, what separates women from men, simply speaking, of course). In other words, it’s all form, and almost no function. Where Matt and Trey slipped, is not understanding that the form is as important, if not more, than the function. [sub]Yes, I know not all women want to have babies. That’s not the point.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/64 "2005-03-14T17:14:30Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Then comes along Kyle, who, in my opinion, really represents the transgendered. He feels like a tall, black kid. He’s always felt like one. The doctor surgically alters him so that he looks like on the outside how he feels on the inside. Sadly, he only looks like how he feels; it’s all form, and no function. He can’t play basketball with his new body. While a post-op, transsexual has a vagina, of sorts, she still lacks the internal organs most women have (uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries, etc.). She can’t play basketball–have children-- (historically, what separates women from men, simply speaking, of course). In other words, it’s all form, and almost no function. Yup, just like Matt ‘n’ Trey said: we’re “freaks,” “surgically mutilated men.” But hey, it’s better’n bein’ a _fag_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/65 "2005-03-14T17:16:44Z")
P.S. I was slamming Matt ‘n’ Trey, not **UrbanChic** , who understands the matter at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/66 "2005-03-14T17:23:53Z")
I agree with **Sweetfreak** here. SP is only shocking if they insult a position you belive in, which, if they haven’t yet they wiil. I find SP hit or miss on funny, Critters and NAMBLA are two examples of funny as hell. But I have never found it to be shocking or insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/67 "2005-03-14T18:44:24Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > . . . Which does not negate Dr. Stanley Biber being a real person and a very well-known surgeon in the TG community—in _Colorado_, which evidentally got under the _South Park_ers’ skin. Google him. Considering what they had him saying, I think he has a good lawsuit on his hands. Upon what possible grounds? Before you answer, may I suggest you peruse the Supreme Court’s decision in [Hustler Magazine v. Falwell](http://laws.findlaw.com/us/485/46.html), and that you recognize its holding does not only apply to sleazy televangelists. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/68 "2005-03-14T18:59:59Z")
Damn… someone beat me to citing Larry Flint’s famous case… 😃 Oh, and add me to the list that says South Park only offends if it is a position you hold dearly. If funny if the joke is on others, but if its on you… that won’t fly. Brilliant show and I hope it continues for many more years. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/69 "2005-03-14T19:02:47Z")
I’m usually a fan of subversive TV, but South Park has never appealed to me… I’ve always found it simply irritating. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/70 "2005-03-14T19:11:40Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Oh, and add me to the list that says South Park only offends if it is a position you hold dearly. If funny if the joke is on others, but if its on you… that won’t fly. Unfortunately, a _lot_ of people—including some right here on the Board—really do believe that transgendered people are nothing but delusional, surgically mutilated, self-hating gays. And now that a popular show has come right out and said that . . . well, I really try to be a good sport, but not many black people can sit through _Birth of a Nation_ without squirming. And Matt ‘n’ Trey are no D.W. Griffith. ---
**Author:** ![modular](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@modular](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modular)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/71 "2005-03-14T20:08:28Z")
You are missing the point of Southpark. Week after week, they prove that people will laugh and continue to watch the foulest rudest concepts possible, yet in kid cartoon form. They lampoon one side so people say ‘haha’ then they lampoon the other side, and the people laughing are now getting made fun of. They have made a multimillion dollar empire at everyones expense, using crude and witty situations. They take everything shallow, bad, good, etc that television stands for, and vomit it back all at one time. In short, genius. The only show like this that does it (10x) better is (sorry Simpsons, you fell off) Family Guy. To me, its just smarter and funnier while still being really crude and un PC. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/72 "2005-03-14T20:11:50Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > South Park is to real satire as Chris Rock is to Lenny Bruce. 😕 I’ve listened to some Lenny Bruce albums. He was funny, and insightful – but I get more real belly-laughs out of Chris Rock. And when you’re evaluating comedy, isn’t that the supreme, all-trumping measure of success? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/73 "2005-03-14T20:16:47Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > . . . well, I really try to be a good sport, but not many black people can sit through _Birth of a Nation_ without squirming. And Matt ‘n’ Trey are no D.W. Griffith. _BOAN_ was not meant to be funny, or even ironic in any sense. OTOH, _National Lampoon_ used to do a lot of humor playing off ugly racist stereotypes – and I would have little regard for a black person who couldn’t laugh at that material. (Most blacks of my acquaintance could.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/74 "2005-03-14T20:22:51Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > My, my…another Church of SubGenius reference from you in a thread dealing with whether something is funny or offensive…and a link to the first one, too! Feh. Stang’s or Drummond’s material makes Stone & Parker look like Bil Keane, and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/75 "2005-03-14T20:25:32Z")
Put another way: It might be retarded to laugh at transgressive humor just because it is transgressive. But it is infinitely more retarded, and Pink besides, to **reject** transgressive material just because it is transgressive. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/76 "2005-03-14T20:26:46Z")
I was a good sport and laughed when _Futurama_ and _Popular_ and _I’m with Her_ poked fun at the subject. But if that episode of _South Park_ was a Doper, it would be banned both for “hate speech” and “being a jerk.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/77 "2005-03-14T21:03:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 I’ve listened to some Lenny Bruce albums. He was funny, and insightful – but I get more real belly-laughs out of Chris Rock. And when you’re evaluating comedy, isn’t that the supreme, all-trumping measure of success? Personally, I don’t get any belly-laughs out of Rock; I find him grating and obnoxious. Carlin, on the other hand, uses shocking statements as a way of highlighting hypocracy, and he does a lot of clever things with language. Bruce was good at tossing out joke grenades; things that offered a chuckle at the time, but just became funnier the more you thought about them. So, no, a belly-laugh response to a shocking statement isn’t " the supreme, all-trumping measure of success" in comedy, at least not in my book. I guess shock sells ad time, but I prefer well-thought out humor to cheap gags. I’ll take Keaton over Chaplin, or “Real Genius” over “Revenge of the Nerds” any day. Perhaps your argument might be slightly more compelling if you’d stop referring to everyone who doens’t get your sense of humor as “pathetic” or “Pink”. I guess that’s to be expected from you, though. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/78 "2005-03-14T21:13:15Z")
_South Park_ is pretty gay positive, from what I’ve seen. Big Gay Al, friend to all, is one of the few not-messed-up adults on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/79 "2005-03-14T21:26:43Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > _South Park_ is pretty gay positive, from what I’ve seen. Big Gay Al, friend to all, is one of the few not-messed-up adults on the show. Which makes it even stranger that they’d be so hateful and misinformed about transsexuals. They’re all for blacks, gays, cripples, kids with ADHD . . . Hell, they even had a few sympathetic _Canadians!_ Except for Scott, he’s a real dick. But transsexuals, atheists (and people with asses instead of heads) are beyond the pale for them, I guess. I kept waiting for the heavy-handed moral, or the twist, or the payoff, but it never came: just, “Well, it sure beats bein’ a _fag!_” My life sucks so much right now that I watch TV to cheer myself up. Let’s just say I did not go to be cheerful last Wedneday night. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/80 "2005-03-14T21:36:27Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > My life sucks so much right now that I watch TV to cheer myself up. Let’s just say I did not go to be cheerful last Wedneday night. If you want transgendered-friendly TV, there is some out there. A _CSI_ episode a couple of months ago was about a murder of a transsexual. It offered a rather sympathetic portrait of the transgendered community of Las Vegas – not funny, of course, but sympathetic. I remember a _Law & Order: SVU_ episode with a similar viewpoint. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412.md?page=5)