# OK, South Park has gone too far now. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412 "2005-03-14T04:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/141 "2005-03-16T01:30:06Z")
**Larry Mudd.** Well, it’s a _little_ funny. And far from millions, it shat on maybe 37 people who somehow feel that a very deluded Mr. Garrison was maligned, that he somehow benefits from a sex change operation when he is a rampant sexist self-loathing gay misogynist – none of which equals being transgendered. (I just pulled my numbers from the same place **Larry Mudd** got his “millions” from.) Calling him a mutilated man and a freak is harsh, but accurate. Anyone who isn’t truly transgendered but opts for a sex change operation expecting to menustrate, ovulate, get pregnant afterward would have to be a supremely self deluded freak. Some of us are able to observe the difference between Mr. Garrison’s far gone character and a real transsexual, y’know. Of course this is black and white. I’m beginning to get annoyed by all this victimization here. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/142 "2005-03-16T01:30:45Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > ". . . if you mean I know _hell_ of a lot more about transsexualism than you, do, then, yeah, I sure _am_ intellectually superior. That’s exactly what I meant. Thanks for fitting into my stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/143 "2005-03-16T02:46:04Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > And far from millions, it shat on maybe 37 people who somehow feel that a very deluded Mr. Garrison was maligned, that he somehow benefits from a sex change operation when he is a rampant sexist self-loathing gay misogynist – none of which equals being transgendered. It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that the episode was about Mr. Garrison and nothing more. It was very clearly a consistent attack on and denial of the idea of gender identity disorder or sexual dysmorphia itself, and made deliberate analogies that suggested people who experienced these conditions were merely being extremely whimsical or willfully perverse. Yes, it’s clear that Mr. Garrison isn’t really a transexual, but Mrs. Broflovsky “explains” his decision to Kyle by describing GID in simple terms to him. This description is embraced by Kyle, with the result that he goes to see a doctor that specializes in surgery for transexual people. There’s a clear implication that Dr. Biber’s talk of actual transexual conditions is just a line of bull-pucky that he uses to justify his Frankenstein projects. “Oh, you ‘feel like a black man?’ We’lll fix you right up! You kind of like dolphins? What the hell! Why not _be_ one?” The basic conceit of the episode was that transexualism is a made-up condition, and that surgery aimed at reconciling people who claim to have the non-existent condition with their bodies is an appalling and frivolous atrocity. And we were hit with that idea over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/144 "2005-03-16T02:52:43Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > That’s exactly what I meant. Thanks for fitting into my stereotype. Uh… so it’s snotty to know more about the issue than you do? ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/145 "2005-03-16T02:55:51Z")
Does anyone remember a skit comedy show called **Fridays** that was on in the 1980s? It was a ripoff of **Saturday Night Live** , and a rather good ripoff, IMHO. **Fridays** once had a skit in which people who had the delusion that they were fish trapped in human bodies could undergo surgical alterations that made them look like fish, gills and all. They called them “Transphibians.” It was a direct slap in the face to transgendered individuals, and this show (which was usually on the “liberal” side of political issues) not only aired it, but did so twice, since the skit was chosen for inclusion in a **Best of Fridays** special. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/146 "2005-03-16T03:08:27Z")
Out of curiosity, I watched the episode. And yep, it’s a pretty clear attack on transexuals. And not in the light-hearted way they make fun of gays and Jews and such. Yeah, Mr. Garrison was the specific transgendered guy in question, but he wasn’t the only target. They were specifically saying that postop transgendered people are mutilated freaks who will never be the opposite of their birth gender because they can’t reproduce (which also casts doubt on many infertile people, but whatever). It’s an opinion, but it’s an ignorant one, presented in a hateful manner. It also wasn’t funny (okay, the dolphin was kind of funny). I’ve disagreed with their politics in teh past because hey, they’re not liberal but they are funny so that’s okay. But this… This is bigotry. I don’t think I’ll be watching this show any more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/147 "2005-03-16T03:08:56Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > There’s an analogy here with the episode which featured JonBenet Ramsey’s parents. Sure, their _opinion_ is that it’s a dead certainty that these people murdered their daughter and got away with it. There’s no harm in that. Everybody’s got a God-given right to be a smug, ignorant prick. > > A line is crossed, though, when all the best evidence is ignored, and they use their bully pulpit to flatly declare that the Ramsey’s are not, as they would have us believe, good people who have endured a horrible tragedy and would dearly like to know what happened to their daughter, or at the very least pick up the pieces and get on with their lives, but rather a couple of monsters who sexually abused their little girl, killed her, and have been gleefully profiting by their crime all this time. :dubious: There was also a _SP_ episode based on the assumption that Michael Jackson is perfectly innocent of child molestation, and has been victimized by white police officers on a mission to take down rich blacks. But that doesn’t mean Stone & Parker believe that, nor that they were trying to sell that message to the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/148 "2005-03-16T03:14:11Z")
Hrm. If this episode was as bad as y’all say, it’s quite out-of-character. SP can be fairly egregious, but I always get the impression there’s a tongue planted firmly in cheek somewhere, and that tends to redeem it as good old filthy entertainment. The suggestion here, clearly, is that things have progressed further to umitigated hate speech. Again, that would be quite surprising. I guess I’ll have to withold judgement until I see it myself. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/149 "2005-03-16T03:14:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Uh… so it’s snotty to know more about the issue than you do? No, her response just fit my presumption perfectly as to what she would say. **Eve** fit perfectly into the niche I had put her (and many members of this board) in, that’s all. Who ever said anything about snotty? Who ever implied it is wrong to know something more than someone else? Where did I say that was a problem? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/150 "2005-03-16T03:15:36Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Hrm. If this episode was as bad as y’all say, it’s quite out-of-character. SP can be fairly egregious, but I always get the impression there’s a tongue planted firmly in cheek somewhere, and that tends to redeem it as good old filthy entertainment. The suggestion here, clearly, is that things have progressed further to umitigated hate speech. Again, that would be quite surprising. I guess I’ll have to withold judgement until I see it myself. It’s definately unmitigated hate speech. The constant barbs at hick smalltown rednecks is hilarious, but trying to boil down something as complex as transexualism with simple barbs just isn’t funny. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/151 "2005-03-16T03:40:51Z")
With _South Park_, it’s always dangerous to take dialog or plot devices at surface value, and assume that they represent the viewpoints of Parker and Stone. Some people need to check their irony sensors. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/152 "2005-03-16T03:58:20Z")
I give up. Y’all are making way too much of this. It’s not an attack of the transgender community. It’s just not. It it were, Matt and Trey would have gone after a much clearer higher profile target, like that Wachovsky sister who had her gender reassignment. It’s about how a legitimate GID argument could be used to justify wrongful cosmetic surgery, escalating from unneeded gender changes to unnecessary race morphing to bizarre species switches. But to admit THAT, you guys would have to connect the dots with Kyle and his dad instead of obsessing over the imbecilic Mr. Garrison’s escalating idiocy, and how the otherwise straightforward, “My outside doesn’t match my insides,” could be perverted by the medical establishment into something exploitive. People read exactly how much personal persecution they want into anything – like African-Americans flying off the handle over the time the _Atlanta Journal Constitution_ juxtaposed a picture of Evander Holyfield next to a drawing of the Atlanta Zoo’s star gorilla attraction, Willie B. on zoo promotion, or Latinos thinking “Spic N Span” is racist. I see this being the exact same kind of thing, and my sympathies don’t make it any less DUMB. Whats’s really sad is how the underlying ideas weren’t disturbing some of you – you just wished they were funnier. Like bigotry’s okay if it’s funny. Screw you guys, I’m going to bed. ---
**Author:** ![don\_Jaime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/153 "2005-03-16T04:32:06Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Jumping Jesus On A Pogo Stick, **don Jaime,** you took the absurdly wordy around to say, “I’m offended by that humor.” Five little words!! Times three hundred!! Makes it that much harder to write off if I blow about it a bit. Besides, I don’t have all day online to keep posting responses, so I have to make a point stick. > [@](#): > > Seeing as how the POINT of satire is to push the envelope and the vanguard of satire is a 300 year old essay endorsing cannibal infanticide as the rational remedy for famine, I’d say that so-called inappropiate potty-mouthing and juvenile shock value prickled sensibilities aren’t really the problem as much as some basic humor snobbery here. THAT’S RIGHT, I CALLED YOU “HUMOR SNOBS.” What, now I have to invite you over to watch _MXC_ and _Ren and Stimpy_ reruns with me? You poor proletarian baby. Yes, SP can be classified as satire. That doesn’t mean it’s _good_ satire. I’d say it’s pretty substandard satire. It’s an open question what Stone and Parker think about _anything_ for Chrissake. Somebody had to dredge up an interview just to determine what political views they have. They haven’t managed to communicate that effectively in, what, seven seasons of SP? Eight? I have to assume they’re failing. No such problem with Swift. He assaults government policy and English bigotry in the most ferocious manner, and includes his own suggestions on how to relieve Irish poverty. So far, the sum of Stone and Parker’s wisdom after eight years is “trannies R dumb lol.” They don’t compare to Dean Swift at all well. In fact, he’s funnier, and he’s not really trying to be, in my opinion. At least I can’t imagine “A LAUGH RIOTTE!” on the dustjacket for _A Modest Proposal_. > [@](#): > > **don!** _You’re bitching about characterization in a cartoon!_ I didn’t have room to go into any depth, but yes, I want characterization in a cartoon. Most folks do; one common complaint about recent _Simpsons_ episodes is that Homer is out of character. My problem with SP characterization is that Stan and Kyle barely have any. Seriously, I cannot tell them apart unless I remind myself that **ST** an wears a **ST** ocking cap. Otherwise, it’s the same person drawn a little different. Sloppy work, and very typical of SP. > [@](#): > > You’re bemoaning Kenny’s deaths and resurrections. Boo-hoo hoo for fucking Kenny. He’s gonna outlive you! He already makes more money than you. And I thought I was making a big deal out of this. I ask you again, what can be said about a viewer who finds a child’s agonized death, however abstracted and fake, a great joke? > [@](#): > > Clearly our mileages in humor vary. Why not just accept that and move on? Because so many SP fans are convinced that it’s quality satire and humor, and has something of value to add to debate. I think it’s necessary to stand up and say it’s piffle, and poorly done, contemptable piffle at that. > [@](#): > > When _South Park’s_ day is invariably done and gains some perspective by passing time, we’ll see more clearly its influence and satirical aims. All I need to do to see SP’s influence is eat a burrito and wait an hour. It’s satirical aims remain obscure almost a decade after its debut. I think we’ve all waited long enough. Long past time to pull the plug. > [@](#): > > I give up. Y’all are making way too much of this. It’s not an attack of the transgender community. It’s just not. Yeah, whatever. I didn’t see this episode, but just scanning the criticisms made by other posters, Stone and Parker outdid themselves in the insult department. But hey, they’re writing satire. It’s okay to spout hateful stereotypes as long as your satirizing the people you’ve stereotyped, right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/154 "2005-03-16T04:34:52Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yeah . . . we’re either punchlines or murder victims. We’re pretty much where gays were, pre-Stonewall. Good lady, with all due respect, there are couple of basic facts which you’re just going to have to confront and accept, however uncomfortable they might make you. First, **homosexuality is funny.** Always has been, always will be. Stonewall changed a lot of things, but not that. I don’t mean all homosexuals are funny, or that any of them deserve to be laughed at – only that homosexuality will always provide plenty of good, laugh-inducing material for comedians and humorists. It’s funny, first, because it has to do with sex. Where would humor be without sex? Practically every human culture is at least a little neurotic about sex, and some are positively psychotic about it – because the emotions involved are so powerful and chaotic and potentially dangerous, and because the consequences of poor judgment in sexual choices can be so disastrous and long-lasting, and because the politics of sexual relations are just so damned **complicated** compared with needs such as hunger which can be satisfied in much simpler, less emotionally charged ways. It’s something all people over the age of 12 are on some level deeply nervous about – and humor is one of the ways we deal with uncomfortable emotions. Even more importantly, homosexuality is funny because it involves reversal of expectations, turning what we think of as “normal” upside down – and we all know how important an element of humor that is. Put sex together with reversal-of-expectations, and you’ve got a sure winning formula, comedy-wise.\* Second, gender-reassignment will always be funny for the same reasons, squared and cubed, plus additional factors: The very idea of gender-bending freaks out a lot of people in a way ordinary homosexuality does not. It’s like, we’ve got these two basic categories into which, rightly or wrongly, we spend our whole lives assigning people, and you’re **blurring** them. It’s like, the shock level of _The Crying Game._ And when something makes us nervous – we make jokes about it. It’s natural. I’m not saying that transsexuals are immoral or self-deluded – you have a perfect right to be who and what you think you are. And I’m not saying you’re funny, nor that you deserve to be laughed at. But you are just going to have to accept that fact that the very mention of transsexuality will always be good for a laugh, or at least a nervous giggle. You should take a lesson from homosexuals, who, for the most part, have learned to join in the laughter – I’ve never known a gay person who couldn’t appreciate a good gay joke. Do you hear gay-rights activists protesting over _Will and Grace?_ \*And, of course, gay men (sometimes) practice anal sex, and anything that involves your asshole is funny. I good get at least a giggle out of any comedy-club audience in America just by saying the word “proctologist,” before even trying to put it into any humorous context. Not even “gynecologist” is that good for a laugh. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/155 "2005-03-16T04:46:35Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I give up. Y’all are making way too much of this. It’s not an attack of the transgender community. It’s just not. . . > But to admit THAT, you guys would have to connect the dots with Kyle and his dad instead of obsessing over the imbecilic Mr. Garrison’s escalating idiocy, and how the otherwise straightforward, “My outside doesn’t match my insides,” could be perverted by the medical establishment into something exploitive. > . Again, I haven’t seen the episode. But, I don’t care what Mr Garrison does. It’s been made very clear that he’s an insane freak (Mr Hat, Mr Stick, feeling unloved because his father has never molested him). I’m upset by the comparison of sex reassignment surgery to somebody being turned into a dolphin. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/156 "2005-03-16T04:51:51Z")
> [@pinkfreud](#): > > _South Park_ fans, on the other hand, often get all bent out of shape if I don’t share their amusement. If I had a nickel for every time a _South Park_ fan has told me that I just don’t “get it,” or that I am some sort of stick-in-the-mud prude, or that I flat out don’t have a sense of humor… well, if I had that many nickels, I could buy myself a boatload of Chocolate Salty Balls, you betcha. The reason is that people who do not think South Park is funny seem to view those that do as some sort of sick individuals. It’s already been insinuated on this thread that anyone who finds South Park funny have something wrong with them. With that attitude against us, is it any surprise that the defense of the show is taken to such an extreme? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/157 "2005-03-16T05:04:36Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > It’s definately unmitigated hate speech. The constant barbs at hick smalltown rednecks is hilarious, but trying to boil down something as complex as transexualism with simple barbs just isn’t funny. I think this quote proves my point with respect to it’s funny when they skewer someone else, but when they skewer something you hold dear, it ain’t funny anymore. So “hick smalltown rednecks” are just simple charactures, not complex at all? Or perhaps you want them to be simple charactures. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/158 "2005-03-16T05:10:29Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think this quote proves my point with respect to it’s funny when they skewer someone else, but when they skewer something you hold dear, it ain’t funny anymore. So “hick smalltown rednecks” are just simple charactures, not complex at all? Or perhaps you want them to be simple charactures. Except that I’ve found all the Jew bashing quite amusing. It’s been a few months, how did it go? Stan “Kyle, what are you doing?” Kyle (Taking the unborn critter antiChrist up his ass) “I’m doing what Jews have always wanted, putting an end to Christmas and Santa once and for all!” Not to mention (To the tune of I Have A Little Dreidel) "Jews, play stupid games. Jews, that’s why their lame. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/159 "2005-03-16T06:29:15Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > No, her response just fit my presumption perfectly as to what she would say. **Eve** fit perfectly into the niche I had put her (and many members of this board) in, that’s all. Fact remains that she knows more about this than you do. It’s not her high-self opinion, it’s the truth. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412/160 "2005-03-16T06:41:55Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So “hick smalltown rednecks” are just simple charactures, not complex at all? They are if you listen to Jeff Foxworthy, and who would know better? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-south-park-has-gone-too-far-now/294412.md?page=9)