Heh, I have realised for a while that stoid’s posts arent worth seriously reading or arguing with but this is just funnier than her usual stuff. Even so I propose everyone ignore her untill she answers yosemitebabe.
Stoid:
I wish you wouldn’t continue to insist on the assertion that I hunt because I enjoy killing things.
As you’ve admitted, hunting is only something you understand in theory. Even if you don’t understand why, the least you could do is conditionally take my rather more experienced opinion (in this one matter,) for it.
I find the “enjoy killing” thing insulting. In spite of this, if you are going to insist on your standpoint, I’d appreciate it if you would make some very explicit arguments as to why hunting is only about killing. Barring that, at least respond point to point to the post that I’ve made explaining why it’s not, so I can understand your reasoning.
If I understand your argument, it’s not that hunting or killing is unnecessary, it’s that those who choose to do so for sport are suspect for their inclinations.
There are so many different aspects to hunting. The outdoors, the comeraderie, the planning, the hoping for "the big one, the acquisition of skill, the challenge, the excapist feelings, the food, and of course the beer and bragging rights afterwards.
Out of all those aspects, you have arbitrarily assigned the killing, as the motivational factor that attracts hunters.
Without having been a hunter, or studied hunters and their literature, what makes you think you have the least qualification or right to assign motivations to them.
It would be like if I wrote a paper about the Duck-billed platypus without ever having seen or bothered to read about them, and then argued with qualified biologists.
Without any offense, your position is pretty tenuous here.
I think I understand why you feel the way you do, and maintain that you are right. To you, killing is so abhorrent, that you can’t look past it to the other aspects of hunting, or understand that the killing is proper and necessary within that context.
You’ve stated some things about yourself as being contradictory.
Is it possible that you are wrong, and not all killing is bad?
Let me give you an example. We had a barn cat named Lucky. A big old Tom of a cat. Very friendly, great mouser, and when you walked up to hime he’d almost talk to you “Meow. Meow. Meow. Meow. Meow!” He had cancer, and my wife (who was working as a veterinary assistant at the time,) called me, told me He was in a lot of pain and that the vet thought it was time to put him to sleep.
“No,” I said. “Bring him home.” I remembered how terrified and how much Lucky hated the vet. I didn’t want him to die like that.
When I got home, I took him out to his blanket in the hay in the barn. My wife and I sat there for a while, scratched his ears and gave him enough horse tranquilizer to drop a rhino (the vet wouldn’t let her take the euthanasia shot home, but we have horses, and that tranquilizer is tough stuff. You get it on your hands and your flying.)
He went out happy. We did it, and it was the right thing to do. My dog as a child had to be put to sleep in a vet’s office, and I wasn’t going to let that happen again. I’d give my pets a good death if I could.
Our chickens would occasionally pick on a weak one, and mess it up bad. On occasion I’ve wrung their necks, confident that it was a kindness.
I firmly beleive that it is better to do these things yourself.
It’s important to take responsibility for your pets, and not abandon them to the terror of a strange place and an unknown person at their hour of greatest need. Even though it is hard you have to do it, because you owe it to them for a lifetime of companionship.
If you are going to eat dead meat, you show more respect for that animal by doing the job yourself.
I know, that I would rather go, as victim to a predator who appreciated my skill and cunning but got the better of me, than as #4347 at the meat processing plant. I don’t even think I’d begrudge the sonuvabitch eating me.
Do not tell me that I hunt because I like killing animals. Up till now I have had the courtesy not to say that those who live in denial and are unwilling to understand and partake in the consequences of their existence are mere cowards living in a fantasy world.
In other words, if you are unwilling to kill the cow, or accept that responsibility Don’t eat the meat.
Don’t use your own inadequacy to judge those who do accept the responsibility.
Stoid
Stoid
Stoid
I’m challenging something you said yesterday at 2:30 pm.
I don’t have time to read anything else until I know you are posting fact instead of someones video hogwash. I do find it amusing that you said you believe Film. Bonefied documentary video maybe, but not that dung produced by that SPCA Bigot.
I will now honor Asmodeans request and wait until you answer Yosemitebabe’s posts.
I’ll just cut to the chase here. If you believe that I am a vegetarian who actively preaches and “nags” meat eaters on a daily basis, then proudly held my own beliefs up as a sterling example, then yes, I would be a hypocrite. But I have already explained, most of what I have written here is swathed in sarcasm, in veggie rhetoric, to “tweak” someone who is sorta asking for it.
Obviously you have a lot of contempt and scorn for vegetarians, thank you for making it clear now. So whatever I say, whatever my “reasons” for vegetarianism are, you feel contempt for them. That’s fine and dandy, you’re not the first, you won’t be the last. The fact is, I don’t usually “explain” my reasons for vegetarianism, because I don’t think anyone is entitled to an explanation for my private diet choice. And, as I have mentioned before, I don’t make a habit of nagging or judging people for their diet choice. And also to be honest with you, I have given you some of my reasons for being a vegetarian, but not all. The real secret (and I’m letting you in on this, because you’re so special) is that I had a vision one night, from Phil the Giant Goat. Phil told me not to eat the flesh of birds, cows, pigs, fish, or other such simular animals. So that’s my REAL reason. What? Are you going to show disrespect for the Mighty Phil the Giant Goat? How dare you!!! [sub]yes, that was very sarcastic, wasn’t it?[/sub]
As far as my being sarcastic, and your feelings that it is more suitable for the Pit, well, you are not a moderator. Moderators are sometimes sarcastic here, everyone is occasionally sarcastic here. And, I might add - if my attitude and statements here were so inflamatory, how come you are the only one who is (apparently) offended by them? (Excepting Stoid, I assume.) Why, with all the stuff I have spewed out here - stuff like “Meat is Murder”, you’d think old-timer Dopers like Scylla and Freedom2 would have blown a gasket, taking me to task - right? Why aren’t they? And why aren’t the moderators on my tail? Do you think perhaps it is because they:
- Know me, and are familiar with my rather consistent stance on vegetarianism. And know that I am capable of being sarcastic and faceteous, and recognize that that is what I am doing now.
2} Know Stoid, and they know her consistent stance on liberal thinking, her attitude towards conservative philosophy, and her habit of making comments that trigger threads here (and also in the Pit)?
No…that can’t be it. Because that would mean you missed out on something. And that would be inconceivable <----sarcasm. That was sarcasm!
I also might add, if you feel such contempt for vegetarianism, why don’t you take it to the Pit? I am talking about the inconsistency of someone who condemns hunting, but eats meat. This thread is about hunting. I have not, in fact, (in seriousness) condemned hunting, or meat eating, or anything. If I had, don’t you think the hoardes of meat-eating Dopers would be pitching a fit with me right now?
Thank you. Thank you SO much, I cannot begin to express how much I appreciate your saying that.
And thank you for bieng such an excellently well-informed and skillful opponent. You brought me up short more than once. May we meet again!
(bowing)
stoid
“hypocrisy” Ah now I will spell it right:)
Gaspod, Stoid actually agrees that she is a hypocrite. The problem is not that her beliefs are illogical but that she doesen’t follow them, but she expects everyone else to. All the while not caring for humans at all only for animals(or maybe just not for Alaskans:)) her actions don’t follow what she says.
Yosemitebabe
Obviously you have a lot of contempt and scorn for vegetarians, thank you for making it clear now. So whatever I say, whatever my “reasons” for vegetarianism are, you feel contempt for them
And this statement would be based on what? Can you please show me somewhere where I displayed contempt for vegetarians? How many different ways do I have to say it. May contempt in this case is reserved for those who accuse others of hypocrisy, laziness and cowardice for holding beliefs, however illogical they may appear. This is particularly so when they appear to be guilty of the same sins themselves. I have no issue with your vegetarianism, only with your moral arguments.
What? Are you going to show disrespect for the Mighty Phil the Giant Goat
I endeavour at all times to show respect for the beliefs of all people. You could try the same.
**Because that would mean you missed out on something. And that would be inconceivable **
I repeat:
” I apologise for taking what you say at face value and assuming you have the intelligence and good manners to make your feelings and beliefs known without resorting to the use of low wit like bathos and sarcasm. I assure you Yosmitebabe it is a mistake I could never make again.
I, and all other English speaking people, cannot recognise sarcasm when written by a complete stranger. By definition it requires vocal inflection or for the expounders thoughts or past experiences to be known, and with someone I have had no contact with previously this is impossible. Please don’t condemn me for not being able to accomplish that which you yourself find impossible.”
As far as my being sarcastic, and your feelings that it is more suitable for the Pit
Did you actually read what was written? I never at any stage said that your sarcasm was more suitable for the pit. Please re-read what I wrote, re-read what you wrote and comp[are with :
“** If you gotta flame, do it here. This is the place for all complaints**”
The fact is, I don’t usually “explain” my reasons for vegetarianism, because I don’t think anyone is entitled to an explanation for my private diet choice
And well done. But did you really expect you could make statements about the reasons underlying your diet in a forum called “Great Debates” and not get any argument?
**I also might add, if you feel such contempt for vegetarianism, **
Again what is this based on? Vegetarians are fine. My Sifu is vegetarian and I hold him in the greatest esteem. He is not however given to condemning others for their beliefs.
Asmodean
I personally have no objection to Stoid not following her own beliefs. That is something that I believe is to be decided between her, her conscience and whatever God or Gods she chooses to believe in.
Perhaps you could correct me and post a link to a thread where this is not so, but as I re-read what she has written I see no evidence of her expecting anyone else to follow her beliefs. She holds those who don’t in low regard perhaps, but I see nowhere where she has said that anyone should be killed, locked up or condemned to hell for not following her beliefs. Maybe she believes they will be, but she doesn’t appear to wish to have to pass judgement personally. I also see no statement that implies she cares only for animals and not for humans, though again I’m willing to be corrected.
My only problem with anti-hunters, as with anyone else who is anti-whatever-I-enjoy, is when they attempt to prevent me from enjoying myself. This is particularly so when they claim the right to do this by stating that their behaviour is somehow better or less destructive than that of others. I believe my behaviour is better than that of many other people, but until I can prove that using some sort of consistent logic I would never presume that that gives me the right to modify their lives. I am constantly grateful that the responsibility for deciding what is the more moral choice is one that I hold only for myself.
I am stumped, I admit it. I honestly do not understand your position. You say the above, and this:
And somehow in your head, you divorce all this from the act of killing psychologically, but not practically. I have acknowledged that there are many different aspects to hunting that hunters find enjoyable…yet hunters don’t want to give up the killing the animal part and just enjoy the rest. That being the case, all the peripheral stuff is * predicated on killing something * or trying, anyway. Why not stalk the beast to take it’s picture, as the other thread suggests? If you are so *insulted * by being told you like killing things, that there is so much more to it than that, then why not * leave the killing part out of it * ? As I said, I am not accusing you of being a sadistic bastard who delights in creating suffering. But you are a hunter who enjoys hunting, which means you enjoy killing things, and all the stuff that goes with killing things. Since you are okay with it, * why are you insulted * ? Are you insulted by my disgust? Because you gotta know that people are gonna feel that way. Then again…perhaps you didn’t know that. Perhaps everyone you know in your life either feels as you do, or is polite enough not to tell you to your face how they feel about it. Maybe that is why you are so insulted.
I fail to see the logic in this. Because you do something and enjoy it and like it, and I don’t do that thing, I have to adopt your attitude about it? That makes no sense to me. I have never skied, because it does not appeal to me. Going fast on slides down a mountainside strikes me as terrifying and upsetting. I don’t want to do it. Do I have to like it because you do it and like it? There are people who get off on rolling in feces and rubbing it all over themselves. They think its great. Do I have to actually DO it before I conclude that it’s disgusting?
I believe you enjoy it. I believe you enjoy it on many levels. But you are driving me crazy with this… is hunting NOT going out and killing something? Then tell me why you kill something…is it an accident that occurs while you bond with your buddies and nature? NO. You guys get together and say “let’s go hunting” hunting=going out and stalking something and killing it. Jeez.
I have not said that all killing is bad. In fact, I have said just the opposite. Some killing is necessary. Some killing is even good, as in the killing of a suffering animal. What I have said, and what I will continue to say until someone can make me see it differently, is that * deliberately killing something for whatever pleasure may come from the act, peripherally or directly, is disgusting. If the killing is being done as part of a process of entertainment and recreation, I think that sucks. * Imagine the conversation if you had to explain it to the deer. “Hey you, Mr. Deer…I feel like enjoying some nature today. I’d like to challenge myself and see how good I am at shooting. I also want to hang with my buddies and tell stories and just have a good time. The central activity around which all this other stuff depends is going to be chasing you down and killing you. Howzat sound?” Mr Deer responds “Well, couldn’t you just do all that stuff * without * killing me? Please?” You: "No. Now, don’t misunderstand me…I don’t like killing you, not at all. But in order for me to enjoy all this other stuff, we have to kill you. I can’t test my skills and abilities unless I kill you. But I promise I won’t enjoy it. "
You continue to br frustrated that I don’t understand how or why you find this activity relaxing and pleasurable, I am confounded that you don’t understand why i wouldn’t!
Look at it this way: if someone told me that I could have the best time of my entire life, more fun, more laughter, more communing with nature…that I could feel powerful and skilled and a whole host of wonderful things, and all I had to do was sign a piece of paper giving someone else the permission to go kill a big beautiful wild buck just so I could have this grand ol’ time, I wouldn’t do it. I just wouldn’t. My good time isn’t worth the beautiful wild buck’s death. Not to me.
Tell me about it. Last year I had to say goodbye to Sophie and Rufus within 3 months of each other. 17 year old cocker spaniels I’d had since they were a few weeks old. I would not, could not, drag them off to the vet. I searched and found a vet who would come to my home and do the deed while I held my babies in my arms and talked to them and felt the life slip out of them. You can’t tell me anything about doing right by the animals that are my friends.
I could not do the act of killing my animals myself. I hired someone else to do it who was qualified, experienced, and dispassionate about it. What I did instead was hold them and comfort them and love them. I’m sure they preferred that to having me plunge the needle in.
You may be right about this in theory. But considering my inability to do this, and how poorly any attempts would go, it is undoubtedly kinder of me to leave it to those less queasy than myself to do the job for me, cleanly and efficiently. I will continue to purchase the meat from those I feel have raised and slaughtered it most humanely. And I will continue to give my money to those who are trying to change the inhumane factory farming practices. See…I’m not trying to get hunters to stop hunting. I’m trying to get factory farmers to stop torturing food animals.
Ok. You like hunting because you like all the other stuff, and the killing the animal part is the bummer you just have to deal with so you can enjoy the rest.
But you still kill them as part of what you consider recreation. Is that a fair statement? And I think that’s awful. Sorry if you are insulted.
stoid
PS: One more question: if you do not LIKE killing things…what is your general demeaner when you indulge in your “bragging rights” as you call them? Are you laughing and puffed up, pleased and prideful, describing your manly ability to bring down the mighty buck, or are you sad and sorrowful, maybe even a little queasy as you explain how you cut down the magnificent beast? And if it is A, which I admit I’m kind of assuming since you used the term “bragging rights” why would you talk that way if you don’t enjoy it?
Stoid:
Thanks for the long and thoughtful reply.
The answer to your last question is A. of course. I don’t say “You should of seen all the blood, man it was great.” I brag about how difficult it was to lure him in.
Conversely I also brag about the ones I didn’t get, the shot I didn’t take, because I couldn’t be sure.
This year I bragged about a large atypical (old bucks are very wily,) who I had fooled enough to come within fifty yards. I don’t know how he knew I was there, but he did, and he looked right at me as if to say “nice try, bub,” before walking away in disdain.
From your last post, it seems your objection is the recreational nature of hunting and its inherent killing.
Eating a fine steak can be recreational. I like to cook, and preparing one is also recreational to me. Why aren’t I bothered by the animal that died to give me a steak?
I just bought it.
Dammit if I get a deer, I damn well earned that tenderloin in a way you can’t pay in money.
I am a human being, capable of providing for himself and his family should there be a need. I take the same pride and enjoyment in harvesting my own meat, as I do now, sitting at a desk I built from raw lumber.
If it must be done on my behalf, I would prefer to do it myself, even if it’s only once in a while, and symbolic. It helps tell me that I am who I want to be in some ways.
I’m really sorry about your dogs.
Btw: Don’t knock skiing till you try it. You might like it. You got something against skiers? 
yer welcome.
Well, you are for sure the guy I want around when the shit hits the fan. As it happens, my future father in law hunts and fishes. I don’t give him shit about it, why create disharmony? And in fact, when we were all atwitter about Y2K, HE was the guy I wanted around!
Thanks, it was amazingly painful. But now I have Maggie, my rescue Golden that I love more than I would have believed I could love a dog, and I always knew I could love dogs * a lot *. She is perfect, and perfectly amazing.
Are you kidding? I think they are THE SCUM OF THE EARTH!!! I wouldnt’ be caught dead in their vile company. 
stoid
It has been my experience that there’s a huge division between urban and rural folks when it comes to hunting. I’ve found that urban folks are most likely to be the ones turned off by hunting and find it disturbing. Rural folks, even those who don’t like hunting, aren’t all that disturbed about it. I might be accused of generalizing but this is what I’ve found to be the case most of the time.
Thoughts?
Marc
Sorry Stoidella
Does anyone else find this disturbing
would come to my home and do the deed while I held my babies in my arms and talked to them and felt the life slip out of them
I don’t find that normal.
justwannanow:
I think it’s unusual too.
It’s unusual because it’s exceptional. I imagine she did it that way because it was the best way she could, even though it was hard on her.
…not that I’m defending Stoid or anything.
Hey Gaspode - I apologize if I assumed by your scathing words that you held contempt for vegetarians. But when I take great pains to explain that I do not nag anyone to eat the way I do, and I do not tell someone they “enjoy killing”, but I still am labeled a hypocrite, I jumped to a conclusion.
As far as Stoid’s beliefs - she can believe whatever she wants. What I take exception to is her attitude on this board, and the sweeping insults she so liberally applies. If she doesn’t care for hunting, but still wants to eat meat - I won’t stop her. But when she starts insulting Scylla and other pragmatic hunters for getting their meat that way - I find that hypocritical.
I respect someone who doesn’t shoot off their mouth, making condescending and sweeping generalizations, and insulting something they know little about. I can respect almost anyone’s beliefs. I don’t have to respect how they express them.
I made several allusions to “needling” and “teasing”. I used quote marks to attempt to indicate the “jargon” (see? quotes) I was using. If you missed it, my apologies, perhaps I was too subtle for some. But I must note that you were the only one who appeared so deeply offended by it. I assume everyone else kinda had a clue. Otherwise, I am sure they would have gone off on me.
Oh, I’ll get an argument, all right. And yeah, since I broke a longstanding habit of generally not explaining my reasons for my diet, of course I get an argument. But I must tell you, vegetarians sit down a a dinner table, merely wanting to eat their salads and peace, and are hounded and “challenged” all the time. It takes zippo for someone to want to argue with a vegetarian. Some people cannot bear that a person can be minding their own business, not wanting to eat meat, and wishing only to be left alone. So - do I in general think that meat eaters are “entitled” to understand why I eat what I do? Absolutley not. At the core of my beliefs is that I don’t tell other people that they should follow my diet. And I expect them to do the same back. I challenge you to find, in all my 1600+ posts, where I have come off as a serious “holier than thou” sanctimonious veggie who wants everyone to eat the way I do.
My exception with our dear Stoid is that she decides that she thinks hunters “enjoy killing” - that they are “not her kind of people” - that it “repulses” her. And I am all astonishment. And I wonder, since she is such a “liberal bleeding heart”, why doesn’t she do the stereotypical L.A. “liberal bleeding heart” thing and become veggie? And I also marvel, that here I am, a “politically incorrect” person who holds a political belief system she finds so “selfish”, and I manage to do this PC thing she won’t do. But by marveling at this whole Stoid phenomenon, I am not telling her that she should become veggie (other than in a needling, sarcastic way.) I am wondering where she gets off insulting and passing judgment on hunters. An activity, I might add, that I (as the “bleeding heart vegetarian”) do not feel entitled to judge or condemn. (Other than to say “I’m not crazy about it”.)
So my point here is - I believe it is hypocrisy for someone to condemn hunting by saying things like “they enjoy killing”, and using words like “repulse”. But - oh - still want to eat meat, the product of a “killing”. If someone wants to eat meat, but is turned off my hunting, fine. No need to be insulting about it, no need to tell the hunters out there that they “enjoy” killing.
I have not passed judgment or insulted hunting on this board in the way Stoid has (if at all.) If I had, I am sure one of the veteran hunter Dopers out there would have let me know all about it. Therefore, I don’t see myself a “hypocrite” (anymore than anyone else here who has taken exception to Stoid’s attitude.)
I think you are absolutely right. We urban folk, being so far from the land and an earthy lifestyle, just don’t know how to relate to it any more.
I’ll tell you a GREAT book to read if you want to really feel that “close to the land” feeling, a book that made me wanna go out and chop wood and kill stuff: “Cold Mountain” by Charles Frazier. What a perfectly marvelous book. Very simple tale of two people trying separately to get along in the waning days of the Civil War, when getting something to eat was a full time job. Beautifully written. Check it out on Amazon.
stoid
Heaven forfend, Scylla, I’m sure no one would believe that for a moment!
I suppose it would have been more “normal” to dump them at the vets and flee, saying “I can’t watch!” like I’ve seen people do on Emergency Vets. Cowards. selfish jerks. [sub] Soulless creeps. Don’t deserve to have dogs, that’s what. Dogs are too damn good for your asses. grumble grumble grumble [/sub]
This is too wierd
I’m out of here.
Yosemitegirl
Apology accepted. I should have been a little more tactful.
**But when she starts insulting Scylla and other pragmatic hunters for getting their meat that way - I find that hypocritical. **
Can you provide me a quote for where she actually insulted a hunter? She’s tendered some pretty unflattering opinions but has she actually insulted?
I made several allusions to “needling” and “teasing”. I used quote marks to attempt to indicate the “jargon” (see? quotes) I was using. If you missed it, my apologies, perhaps I was too subtle for some.
Not just too subtle, but in the post that started this actually invisible! “Lesser evil”, “delicate” and “from the source” were the only phrases with quotes.
**But I must note that you were the only one who appeared so deeply offended by it. I assume everyone else kinda had a clue. Otherwise, I am sure they would have gone off on me. **
No one else here appears to have had access to the information I relied on to rebut your argument if the questions are anything to go by. And yet again, what leads you to believe I was offended?
** But I must tell you, vegetarians sit down a a dinner table, merely wanting to eat their salads and peace, and are hounded and “challenged” all the time.**
For some reason that doesn’t happen to my Sifu. People don’t often feel they have the right to force a kung-fu instructor to account for his life. Go figure.
I challenge you to find, in all my 1600+ posts, where I have come off as a serious “holier than thou” sanctimonious veggie who wants everyone to eat the way I do.
Now there’s a challenge I’m not going to accept. Appears the problem is you assumed I knew your background, and then continued to try to defend your beliefs when I dragged you into an argument. It could have saved a lot of trouble if you’d just told me you were being facetious. Maybe putting something like the above statement in your profile might help?
My exception with our dear Stoid is that she decides that she thinks hunters “enjoy killing” - that they are “not her kind of people” - that it “repulses” her.
And good luck to her as far as I’m concerned. I think the same things about a lot of groups. Isn’t she entitled to her beliefs?
** I wonder, since she is such a “liberal bleeding heart”, why doesn’t she do the stereotypical L.A. “liberal bleeding heart” thing and become veggie?**
This really isn’t my argument, but she’s answered that several times: she’s a weak willed, hypocritical, consumerism driven coward. That’s her choice and like your choice to be a vegetarian I can respect it and can’t understand why she has to justify it. (Stoid I’m paraphrasing you a little strongly here, but I think that’s the gist of what you’ve said.)
And I also marvel, that here I am, a “politically incorrect” person who holds a political belief system she finds so “selfish”, and I manage to do this PC thing she won’t do.
Some would say that the struggle to become better is worth more to a woman’s soul than simply ‘being good’.
**But by marveling at this whole Stoid phenomenon, I am not telling her that she should become veggie (other than in a needling, sarcastic way.) **
Then can I ask why you utilise these needling and sarcastic tactics? They are obviously achieving nothing except perhaps making someones life that little bit worse? Wouldn’t asking questions get you answers faster?
I am wondering where she gets off insulting and passing judgment on hunters.
Insulting behaviour I can’t understand in this context, but I’ve yet to see anywhere where she has actually condemned anyone.
**So my point here is - I believe it is hypocrisy for someone to condemn hunting by saying things like “they enjoy killing”, and using words like “repulse”. But - oh - still want to eat meat, the product of a “killing”. If someone wants to eat meat, but is turned off my hunting, fine. No need to be insulting about it, no need to tell the hunters out there that they “enjoy” killing. **
If she believes that hunters enjoy killing or if she feels repulsed by hunting that is not a condemnation, it’s a statement of opinion. I would have thought they were opinions she had a right to. If she wishes to express those opinions more power to her. She obviously accepts that other people are going to express their contrary opinion right back at her. This leads to discussion, debate and hopefully understanding, and we move that little bit closer to winning the fight against ignorance. My personal belief is that more people should be encouraged to state their opinions, so long as they make it quite clear that they are only opinions and particularly if they are prepared to explain why they hold those opinions. If the opinion offends someone:- tough! They can argue why they think it’s wrong.
I can’t believe I just did that "Yosemitegirl’ thing again. Foot is now firmly ensconced in mouth.
Yeah, pretty much.
**
[/QUOTE]
And they would be right, I believe. No resting, here…the struggle goes on forever.
stoid