# Ok, stranger things have happened. Trump may be right about Amazon. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687 "2018-04-03T02:23:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lost\_girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lost\_girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lost_girl)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/21 "2018-04-03T06:10:06Z")
[quote=“aceplace57, post:1, topic:811687”] I don’t usually agree with Mr T either. He may be right on this one issue. He’s exaggerated some claims, but the basic facts are there. So Mr. T has the same resprect as the Donald? Made me laugh ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/22 "2018-04-03T06:19:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Amazon’s deal with the Postal Service is discussed in the fact checking video from MSNBC. They said it gets renegotiated annually. Maybe the next contract will up the prices a little? I hope the postal regulatory commission has good negotiators. Maybe Trump should do it himself. He’s a great negotiator, right? If he did, I bet Bezos would steal him blind. Look, if the Amazon traffic was being picked up in big box stores the postal service would be losing business. Amazon is good for them. > [@](#): > > I hope this leads to some small changes in regulations. Amazon has the upper hand over brick & mortar business. I just want to see a competitive battle. What regulations? You want to subsidize small and inefficient stores? Are you guys becoming socialists? There was a law allowing online retailers to not collect sales tax in states they did not operate in, but that is gone - a good thing. It sounded from the NY Times article that Amazon is a tough place to work in warehouses or in offices. That will sort itself out, but I’m all for unions helping. (More socialism. 🙂 ) I owned Amazon stock back in bubble days, which I was dumb enough to sell. Bezos’ strategy of losing money to build - the opposite of the emphasis on quarterly profits so common on Wall Street - is not exactly news. It has worked. Amazon has won because it makes a lot of peoples life better. And they do it legally. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/23 "2018-04-03T06:22:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Walmart wiped out a bunch of family owned businesses on main street. Maybe in your area, since Walmart started in Arkansas. The family-owned Main Street businesses were already gone when Walmart came to my area. What Walmart killed off was the regional discount chains. (Of course, the national chains are just regional chains that succeeded, and the regional chains were just local businesses that succeeded.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/24 "2018-04-03T06:23:30Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > While Amazon, and all internet retailers, were able to take advantage of gaps in states’ tax laws and collection schemes, they no longer do. Brick and Mortar stores used to do that as well. Back in the day (mid 90’s ish, when I remember it), if my parents were going shopping out of state (we live close enough to Chicago), they would have the items shipped back to our house if they offered free shipping. Many retailers wouldn’t charge tax in that case. FTR, they weren’t shopping out of state because of the tax loophole, it was just a perk. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Amazon’s deal with the Postal Service is discussed in the fact checking video from MSNBC. They said it gets renegotiated annually. Maybe the next contract will up the prices a little? Maybe, then I’m sure we’ll see Trump (or someone) through a fit when they shift more of their shipping to UPS/FedEx or complain that they’re working their own drivers too hard. Can’t win. > [@](#): > > Trump’s love of hyperbole gets him in trouble. There is a kernel of truth in what he’s saying. He didn’t need to bash Amazon. In all seriousness, what was that kernel? > [@](#): > > It’s a good company and offers a wide choice in merchandise with fast shipping. Again, in all seriousness, if it’ a good company, why start the thread? > [@](#): > > I hope this leads to some small changes in regulations. Amazon has the upper hand over brick & mortar business. I just want to see a competitive battle. There it’s not non-competitive just because one business or sector is way ahead. That’s, literally, the whole point of competition. Don’t forget, since Amazon showed up, Walmart and Target have ramped up their delivery service. After they bought Outpost and started working with Fresh Market, a bunch of my local grocery stores, both small and big (like Kroeger) have begun to offer 2 hour delivery on groceries/meat/produce etc. Amazon may have the upper hand, but only because they’ve done a very good job, very quickly. There’s nothing stopping other stores from doing the same. Either attempting to do it on the scale that Amazon has or finding their own niche, that would likely offer fast delivery, being one of Amazon’s claims to fame. For example, my local computer store, instead of telling me it’s going to be 2-3 days for me to get a computer (FTR, instead I made a 10 minute trip to Best Buy and bought one) could have said 'no problem, I’ll drop it off at your house tonight/tomorrow/2 days. Guess where I’m not going the next time I need a new computer. > [@](#): > > Brick & mortar business have to modernize and change to survive. Maybe they can modernize and survive. There ya go. Amazon, in it’s current incarnation, has been around a very short time. Brick & Mortar stores have been around for 100’s of years. There’s exactly zero reason why Amazon should be held back because with special rules just because other stores don’t want to change their ways. > [@](#): > > If, Amazon loses a few of their loopholes. Again, in all seriousness, what loopholes does Amazon have that other business can’t also use? > [@Lord Feldon](#): > > And here I thought we were supposed to hate the likes of Kmart and Lowes and malls for driving their predecessors out of business. And in 30 or 40 years we’re going to hate whatever is next for making Amazon struggle. TL;DR AcePlace, you need to clarify what your beef is with Amazon. You like Amazon, you don’t like Amazon. Trump is right, Trumps motives (what do you think are his motives) aren’t pure. B&M stores need an even Amazon gets a sweetheart deal, according to the video (did you watch it before the OP) they don’t really get a sweetheart deal. Coupla things:A)Think about these regulations you bring up that you want put in place. Are they also going to hurt/hinder B&M stores? So far as I know, you can’t apply federal/state regs to a specific company. B)Perhaps you should fact check what Trump is saying. This is really a non issue as much/all of what’s he’s said over the past few days is just plain made up. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/25 "2018-04-03T06:26:58Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Maybe in your area, since Walmart started in Arkansas. > > The family-owned Main Street businesses were already gone when Walmart came to my area. Yes, it really does depend on the area. I’ve heard of them undercutting other retailers. Even temporarily selling, cheaply, things they wouldn’t normally sell just to do away with a nearby niche store. OTOH, the first Super Walmart I went to was essentially surrounded by corn and cabbage fields for probably 10 miles. Not every Walmart exists to quash the competition. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/26 "2018-04-03T06:27:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I didn’t get worried until reports that Walmart is bleeding. They just closed some Sams Clubs a few weeks ago. Well, for one thing, Sam’s Club is a small portion of the Wal-Mart business. For another, Costco is doing just fine, and it appears that their success is a big part of the reason why Sam’s Club hasn’t been doing as well. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/27 "2018-04-03T06:31:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Our Malls look like ghost towns. They’re hurting and many are closing. Internet sales are killing them. Why do you see this as some kind of crisis? It’s because there’s a better way to shop that people prefer, so they don’t _want_ to go to traditional malls. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/28 "2018-04-03T07:25:18Z")
Malls and shopping centers are a big part of our culture. It’s where we met our friends, watched movies, ate, and hung out. I always enjoyed visiting the computer shops. Seeing the latest gear. I bought the first sound card for my computer at Best Buy. I bought a capture card a few years later. I learned a lot just talking to other customers and reading the information on the boxes. Buying gear and trying it. Best Buy had a generous return policy. It’s how I kept up in a fast changing tech field. I like online shopping. It’s convenient and easy. I hope they’ll always be places to go locally. I still love browsing at a book store on a lazy afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/29 "2018-04-03T07:46:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Malls and shopping centers are a big part of our culture. It’s where we met our friends, watched movies, ate, and hung out. Previous generations felt the same way about the predecessors of malls and shopping centers. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/30 "2018-04-03T08:03:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Malls and shopping centers are a big part of our culture. This just sounds weird. Are you a teenager? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/31 "2018-04-03T08:44:37Z")
Here’s the Politifact rating: False. [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/02/donald-trump/trump-usps-postal-service-amazon-losing-fortune/](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/02/donald-trump/trump-usps-postal-service-amazon-losing-fortune/) The USPS is required to be profitable by law. “By law our competitive package products, including those that we deliver for Amazon, must cover their costs,” an August 2017 USPS press release said. “Our regulator, the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC), looks carefully at this question every year and has determined that they do. The PRC has also noted that competitive products help fund the infrastructure of the Postal Service.” **In fact, the Postal Regulatory Commission gave the green light to the USPS-Amazon deal the same day Trump began tweeting about Amazon last week."** The USPS does lose money, “The Postal Service reported a net loss of $2.7 billion for 2017. It has lost $65.1 billion since 2007. Much of the red ink is attributed to a 2006 law mandating that USPS pre-fund future retirees’ health benefits.” This is almost unique among businesses and government agencies who fund retirees’ health benefits with magic.:rolleyes: The law pushed by Republicans in budget agreements with Clinton was/is part of an obsession with trying to drive the USPS into private ownership. Agent Orange has it in for Bezos who is a bizzaro version of himself. Bezos is richer, has an actual family life, has friends, was not a silver spoon. And the Post finds it incredibly easy to find dirt, corruption, and lies throughout the Trump administration. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/32 "2018-04-03T11:44:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Malls and shopping centers are a big part of our culture. It’s where we met our friends, watched movies, ate, and hung out. It’s where you hung out as a teenager. It’s where I hung out as a teenager (I’m almost 40), if it was where the current teens hung out, they’d still be doing just fine, but it’s not. The times, they are a-changin’. > [@](#): > > I always enjoyed visiting the computer shops. Seeing the latest gear. I bought the first sound card for my computer at Best Buy. I bought a capture card a few years later. I learned a lot just talking to other customers and reading the information on the boxes. Buying gear and trying it. Best Buy had a generous return policy. It’s how I kept up in a fast changing tech field. > > I like online shopping. It’s convenient and easy. I hope they’ll always be places to go locally. I still love browsing at a book store on a lazy afternoon. I’m not sure what Best Buy has to do with this. I haven’t looked, but so far as I know they’re doing fine. And between you and me, they’re not a ‘computer shop’, they’re an electronics big box. They killed the small stores in the late 80’s/90’s just like Amazon is doing now. Why go to Radio Shack or CompUSA or Walden Software (\<-in the mall), when you can go to Best Buy and get your stuff cheaper. In the end, shop at the place you want to survive and stay away from the place you want to fail. Vote with your wallet. I always find it funny when a small, local store or restaurant closes and people tell say “oh, I loved that place”. Nearly every time I ask them when the last time they were there was, the answer is ‘I don’t think I’ve been there in years’. My usual reply is ‘if you loved them so much, you should have gone there, at least a few times a year, they closed up specifically because everyone said they loved them but never actually went there’. In short, patronize the places you like. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/33 "2018-04-03T11:54:19Z")
The Politifact rating on the post office is very helpful. Thanks. That sets the record straight on the post office. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/34 "2018-04-03T12:36:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Politifact rating on the post office is very helpful. Thanks. > > That sets the record straight on the post office. It says pretty much the same think as the link in your OP. Did you watch it? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/35 "2018-04-03T12:42:26Z")
I trust the Politifact rating and I looked at the 2017 PRC report they linked. I watched the MSNBC link last night. What they reported was confirmed this morning by Politifact. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/36 "2018-04-03T12:55:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Malls and shopping centers are a big part of our culture. It’s where we met our friends, watched movies, ate, and hung out. The Internet is a big part of our culture now. It’s where we meet our friends, watch movies, order food and hang out. I imagine your grandparents lamented how malls were destroying downtown businesses, because downtown / town center was a big part of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/37 "2018-04-03T13:03:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m glad some people like working at Amazon. I was beginning to feel guilty for shopping there. Some of the news reports this past Christmas are pretty grim. Holiday orders were intense. Speaking as someone who works in a big box stores (neither Whole Foods nor Wal-Mart) you do have to hustle - part of what makes the business profitable is trying to match staffing to work requirements, and something unexpected can throw that off. Among other things that have happened just this past year to my storm have been strong storms (leading to frantic binge-buying the day before and no one for a couple days during and after) and the next county over imposing a beverage tax that drove people out of said county and increased our customer traffic by 25% overnight. Yes, stores maintain less stock in the back room because it saves money - until a shipment doesn’t arrive or one day customers decide to purchase literally every banana in the store by 2 pm (yes, it did happen) leaving you without bananas, customers very upset that yes, you have no bananas, and no way to get more until the next day. People groused about Whole Foods and their high prices, but those high prices were what were buying the back stock to keep the shelves _always_ supplied, and the “idle time” for employees to deliver personalized customer service (it’s not idle time, but by some metrics currently used it can wind up categorized as such, and the workers doing it yelled at for “goofing off” rather than recognition it’s helping the customers. Working retail is more physically demanding that most people outside of retail realize. It can also require more than minimal brain cells these days as even low-level clerks are expected to keep track of many things at once. It can be hard, even brutal. But some of this recalls the “poor workers being forced to work holidays and Black Friday” - hey, some of us WANT to work those days! As I’ve occasionally said to people expressing such opinions while I’ve been at work, don’t feel sorry for me, I _volunteered_ for that shift. For one thing, we get more pay on such days. For another, some of us have few family left so the alternative is to sit home alone on a holiday, which is no fun either. Yes, I have no doubt some workers are unhappy. I have no doubt there are instances of abuse. But don’t dismiss out of hand those of us who are content or even happy about our jobs even when fast-paced, demanding, and sometimes hard physical work. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/38 "2018-04-03T13:05:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Amazon’s deal with the Postal Service is discussed in the fact checking video from MSNBC. They said it gets renegotiated annually. Maybe the next contract will up the prices a little? > > **Trump’s love of hyperbole gets him in trouble. There is a kernel of truth in what he’s saying**. He didn’t need to bash Amazon. It’s a good company and offers a wide choice in merchandise with fast shipping. > > I hope this leads to some small changes in regulations. Amazon has the upper hand over brick & mortar business. I just want to see a competitive battle. > > Brick & mortar business have to modernize and change to survive. Maybe they can modernize and survive. If, Amazon loses a few of their loopholes. Bolding mine. Trump doesn’t have a love of hyperbole, he has a love of lying out of his ass. All of his claims about Amazon have been debunked. Do not give the man credit for things he did not say. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/39 "2018-04-03T13:15:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I know Amazon didn’t charge state sales tax until recently. They still don’t charge local city sales tax. Sales from 3rd party vendors don’t typically include sakes tax. It’s kind of weird that Trump is criticizing them for that. I seem to recall the only businessman Trump admires say that avoiding paying taxes makes you smart. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/40 "2018-04-03T13:21:18Z")
[Josh Marshall](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/mccabe-amazon-and-defending-the-republic-from-donald-trump), responding to a “Trump’s right on Amazon” piece: > [@](#): > > But the bigger point is that it’s not really about McCabe or Amazon. Having a sitting President launching scathing personal attacks on a federal law enforcement officer and demanding his firing or imprisonment for personal and political motives is wildly outside the norms that govern the American system. Similarly, a President who routinely threatens prosecutorial or regulatory vengeance against private companies because they are not sufficiently politically subservient to him personally is entirely outside of our system of governance. At present, Donald Trump is an autocrat without an autocracy. The system mostly resists his demands because it’s not designed to operate that way and we have centuries worth of norms that are remarkably resilient. But systems change. And it’s clear that ours is already starting to change under his malign influence. > > When an autocrat imprisons or kills people on his own arbitrary authority, no doubt some of the people are really bad folks. I have zero doubt, for instance, that a lot of the people Saddam Hussein had tortured or killed were just as vicious and awful as he was. We don’t say these were the cases where Saddam actually ‘got it right’ because we are or should be against autocracy and judicial murder in general and on principle. Obviously the stakes at present are less severe for us. But principle is the same. It’s worth reading the whole thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687.md?page=3)