# Ok, stranger things have happened. Trump may be right about Amazon. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687 "2018-04-03T02:23:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/41 "2018-04-03T13:29:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Amazon seems to deliberately understaff. I assume to keep costs down and prices artificially low. I’m not sure that I understand what the objection is here. In my view, they need staff to accomplish the work they need to accomplish. They seem to accomplish that with the staff they have, so their staffing level seems just right. They could add staff but that would just increase their prices, drive down their sales, and give each employee less to do. Why is that better? > [@aceplace57](#): > > I like online shopping. It’s convenient and easy. I hope they’ll always be places to go locally. I still love browsing at a book store on a lazy afternoon. If you and people like you continue to buy enough books from those stores that they can stay in business, they will do so forever. You are voting with your pocket book. > [@smithsb](#): > > The USPS does lose money, “The Postal Service reported a net loss of $2.7 billion for 2017. It has lost $65.1 billion since 2007. Much of the red ink is attributed to a 2006 law mandating that USPS pre-fund future retirees’ health benefits.” [citation omitted] > > This is almost unique among businesses and government agencies who fund retirees’ health benefits with magic.:rolleyes: Equating how businesses and the USPS fund retirement plans doesn’t make it clear just how big the disadvantage is for the USPS. Under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, private businesses must fund retirement benefits that they have promised to the people who currently work for them or who used to work for them and who earned benefits. In contrast, the USPS must fund retirement benefits for the next 75 years. That means the USPS is funding the retirements of all the same people the private sector must fund, plus benefits for future workers, many of whom haven’t been born yet. In fact, 75 years of advance funding is so far into the future, the USPS is funding the benefits of the grandchildren of some people who are not even born yet because those grandchildren will someday go to work for the USPS. You can see how that imposes an even higher burden on the USPS and makes them appear less profitable. This pre-funding requirement was an accounting trick played by Congress to make the USPS appear to be failing so they could justify privatizing it. They haven’t accomplished the privatization yet but they have sowed doubt and confusion in the public about how successful the USPS is. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/42 "2018-04-03T13:36:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I always enjoyed visiting the computer shops. Seeing the latest gear. I bought the first sound card for my computer at Best Buy. I bought a capture card a few years later. I learned a lot just talking to other customers and reading the information on the boxes. Buying gear and trying it. Best Buy had a generous return policy. It’s how I kept up in a fast changing tech field. Best Buy has been a terrible place to shop for computer stuff for at least a decade. People who wanted components were buying them at Newegg or TigerDirect or one of the other online retailers. This wasn’t a huge paradigm shift for computer enthusiasts who used to order stuff out of catalogs or magazine ads. Anyway, the last time I was in a Best Buy, they had two graphic cards for sale and their entire case fan selection was one rinky-dink 120mm fan for $9. Point is, it’s not just Amazon eating into physical retail, it’s just that online shopping is often the better choice. Anyway, it’s a little amusing that after years of handwaving comments about buggy whips and capitalism and “everyone will just be robot repairmen” we’re suddenly seeing Republicans waving their arms in the air and screaming panic that Amazon is taking all the jobs with their new-fangled interwebs thingie. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/43 "2018-04-03T13:53:26Z")
Amazon’s low employment numbers are mostly due to automation, not to overworking the employees they have. Maybe they do overwork their employees, too, but that’s not the biggest reason. Consider an ordinary brick-and-mortar store. How many of the employees are there to sell you things, tell you where to find particular items, and ring you up at the end of your visit? With Amazon, that’s all done with no human intervention whatsoever, and so they can completely cut all of those employees. They still need stock management (someone putting things in boxes and slapping shipping labels on them, and someone getting packages from their suppliers and putting them on their warehouse shelves), but they’re increasingly using robots for that. Their ideal is to eventually replace all of their employees with machines, and then they won’t have anyone overworked at all. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/44 "2018-04-03T15:06:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I trust the Politifact rating and I looked at the 2017 PRC report they linked. > > I watched the MSNBC link last night. What they reported was confirmed this morning by Politifact. In the OP you said you “liked their fact checking”, yet the creation of this thread suggests otherwise. You say “The hardest working and most reliable businesses should succeed”, but also go on to say they should back off to give the competition a chance and suggest regulations be put in place to hinder what they do. “Trump says they have a sweetheart deal with the Post Office and rates. Is he right?”, the link you provided right in the OP answers this very question. “There is a kernel of truth in what he’s saying”/“He’s exaggerated some claims, but the basic facts are there.” You linked, in your OP to the MSNBC article, to which you said you liked their fact checking. You said you trust Politfact more so I’m not sure why you didn’t double check MSNBC on that site (it was published before you first posted). What truth, kernel of truth, basic facts do you see in these tweets? If there’s truth in them, then those sites are wrong. ISTM you either didn’t watch your own link before you created this thread and the assertions you made could have been answered/quashed by looking around online. Nearly every website has been discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/45 "2018-04-03T15:09:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My sister, who is 57, works in a Amazon shipping center. She likes the job and doesn’t feel it’s too hard for her. > [@beowulff](#): > > I know a guy who works for Amazon. He loves it. I’m 60 and been here better than 3 years --------- and it depends on the day and the current bosses and how things go. Nine days out of ten I’m happy to go to work and the other day I write off to being human. Its a tough company and hard to understand unless you know the business model its following but it has its rewards to. I never had the discipline to go to a gym and eat right but my job gives me a heck of a 3-5 hour workout 5 days a week and I’m down 80+ pounds and in better health than I have since I was 40. If you **need** the paycheck its probably the wrong place for you; we’re all disposable right up through the bosses. But if you want some work and some extra money it beats the Hell out of a lot of the other options around here. PEAK (Nov & Dec) and Mini-PEAK (July) are pretty generally brutal but its as much being around seriously short-term seasonals and agency hires as much as the work. Think of it as going into a combat situation and serious firefight surrounded by people just off the bus at Boot Camp; the body count grows hourly and you can’t do anything about it. Some differs from facility to facility and just what type of operation it is. Sort centers are generally not that bad although the work can be physically draining. The places where the boxes get filled, fulfillment, are less physical but can be mentally brutal. Most of the real horror events (unlike just plain war stories) that happen tend to be more those and warehouses than sorts and customer service and others. And with that since we are drifting I’ll stop visiting this thread. This is one of those subjects where maybe I think I know too much. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/46 "2018-04-03T15:09:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Isn’t it time to give brick & mortar stores a even opportunity? They are catching up. Offering web sites and order pickup. I ordered from Lowes a few days ago. They pulled all the items from the shelf and had the order waiting for me. There’s reserved parking for pickups. > > Amazon should pay the same shipping as anybody else. Or bear the cost of running their own fleets of Trucks. Why should Amazon buy their own trucks when other companies already have trucks and drivers and the knowledge of how to run a carrier? It’s like saying that instead of buying their office paper from Business Depot they should have to make it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/47 "2018-04-03T15:17:07Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Brick and Mortar stores used to do that as well. Back in the day (mid 90’s ish, when I remember it), if my parents were going shopping out of state (we live close enough to Chicago), they would have the items shipped back to our house if they offered free shipping. Many retailers wouldn’t charge tax in that case. FTR, they weren’t shopping out of state because of the tax loophole, it was just a perk. Oh, of course. I remember some B&M merchants around here would have signs indicating they’d take the sales tax off if you could produce an Oregon Driver’s License. The difference is just one of scale - B&M merchants did probably a percent or two of business sales-tax free, whereas Amazon was probably doing 90% (they always charged sales tax in Washington and some other states due to their large, physical presence there) in their hey day. It was a real unfair advantage, and we should all be glad it’s gone. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/48 "2018-04-03T15:18:56Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > ISTM you either didn’t watch your own link before you created this thread and the assertions you made could have been answered/quashed by looking around online. Nearly every website has been discussing it. This is not the first thread by the OP to follow this pattern. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/49 "2018-04-03T15:51:34Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > This is not the first thread by the OP to follow this pattern. By experience on looking at how “information” is shared by ignorant and right wing sites the norm is that the sources misunderstand or misrepresent an article and then the “copy pasta” takes over. Other sites, and even mainstream sources, take the misunderstanding and misrepresentation by copying and pasting the wrong conclusion coming from the ignorant source. I have to conclude that many sources do misrepresent the original source and they confidently expect their readers or posters to not bother to check the original un-spinned source. An explanation about this and to how to deal with this issue comes from science writer Peter Hadfield in this short video: [Why the media screw up science](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdnZ1l5TxJk)(and I may add, other subjects) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/50 "2018-04-03T17:20:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Amazon doesn’t make a profit. Amazon’s Net Income was $3 Billion last year. [http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2329885](http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2329885) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/51 "2018-04-03T17:50:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > This is not the first thread by the OP to follow this pattern. I know, and I usually just move past them, but for some reason I couldn’t help myself here. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/52 "2018-04-03T17:54:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Amazon seems to deliberately understaff. I assume to keep costs down and prices artificially low. Welcome to Every Single Fucking Job In America. Seriously, this is the norm for restaurants, retail, service industry, government positions (teachers, postal workers, city service departments), trucking, even places like Google. Google isn’t providing people with a cafeteria and bean bag chairs so they’ll spend more time at home or relaxing while other people do work. They do it so you’ll feel less shitty about all the overtime you’re putting in. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/53 "2018-04-03T18:04:12Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Google isn’t providing people with a cafeteria and bean bag chairs so they’ll spend more time at home or relaxing while other people do work. They do it so you’ll feel less shitty about all the overtime you’re putting in. I interviewed for a position with Facebook a few years ago, when I was between jobs. The recruiter directed me to a page on Facebook’s web site, that detailed some of their benefits. These included a cafeteria that served free lunch – and free dinner – plus a service that would do your laundry for you, and drop your clean clothes off for you at your desk. Translation: we expect that you’ll be spending every waking moment at work. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/54 "2018-04-03T18:14:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Amazon’s Net Income was $3 Billion last year. They made [$1.9 billion profit in Q4Y2017](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/01/582523404/amazon-reports-biggest-quarterly-profit-of-1-9-billion) alone. Yet another thing the OP got completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/55 "2018-04-04T07:07:23Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I interviewed for a position with Facebook a few years ago, when I was between jobs. The recruiter directed me to a page on Facebook’s web site, that detailed some of their benefits. These included a cafeteria that served free lunch – and free dinner – plus a service that would do your laundry for you, and drop your clean clothes off for you at your desk. Translation: we expect that you’ll be spending every waking moment at work. 😛 I got a free dinner for the last six months I worked at Intel. It was not a benefit. It was a way to make everyone stay late so the top managers could tell their bosses we were working hard on our doomed project. Of course it was “voluntary” but they took names, just to count heads, and the one guy who didn’t stay got rated unsatisfactory by chance at the next review. When I worked for Sun on the campus where Facebook is now we got paid time off from Christmas to New Year’s and Scott told everyone to relax and recharge and not think about work. Look what happened to us. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/56 "2018-04-04T07:09:13Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Welcome to Every Single Fucking Job In America. Seriously, this is the norm for restaurants, retail, service industry, government positions (teachers, postal workers, city service departments), trucking, even places like Google. Google isn’t providing people with a cafeteria and bean bag chairs so they’ll spend more time at home or relaxing while other people do work. They do it so you’ll feel less shitty about all the overtime you’re putting in. 30 years ago you went home when you went home. Now even if they let you out you need to check your email just in case. Or not get ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/57 "2018-04-04T07:14:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The linked New Times Article reports employees work long hours at Amazon with limited breaks. It’s known as a tough place to work. There’s been several articles about worker stress and exhaustion at Amazon. > > That typically means understaffing. I can work an 8 hour day if the shared work is getting done by other staff. I work longer hours if we’re short handed. (that’s happened a couple times in my career). > > Amazon seems to deliberately understaff. I assume to keep costs down and prices artificially low. > > JoeyP makes a good point that Walmart isn’t a great place to work either. Low pay and demanding hours. Ha! I worked at Kmart all through college, and they did the same damn thing. It’s called “short-staffing”. Often times, you’d have one person covering three departments. If someone called off, we were screwed. Breaks got skipped or were late, customers bitched, the place was a mess, etc. Now that Kmart where I worked is closed. (I can’t remember what moved in there now) So it’s not unique to Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/58 "2018-04-04T07:22:40Z")
I don’t know about the US but here in the UK the likes of Amazon are agents of a big problem in that they act as agents for all sorts and the goods you purchase there from China or wherever arrives without payment of import duty, VAT etc. Thus immediately undercutting UK resellers. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/59 "2018-04-04T08:43:05Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Also, in case earlier posts didn’t make it clear: the USPS is _not_ funded by taxpayers. At ALL. It hasn’t been since the early 70s; while it operates under Congressional oversight, it’s an independent agency, and mandated to pay its own way. Its operating budget is solely funded by the fees it charges. It only looks this way if you ignore future pension and retirement costs that the USPS has little hope of ever paying. Barring a miracle, the tax payers are going to be on the hook for billions of dollars worth of pension/retirement obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687/60 "2018-04-04T12:26:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ha! > I worked at Kmart all through college, and they did the same damn thing. It’s called “short-staffing”. Often times, you’d have one person covering three departments. If someone called off, we were screwed. Breaks got skipped or were late, customers bitched, the place was a mess, etc. Now that Kmart where I worked is closed. (I can’t remember what moved in there now) > > So it’s not unique to Amazon. The place is still a mess. The stores are kinda grungy. At least the one by me never seems to have more than a handful of people in it. For the last umpteen years they’ve been having a ‘going out of business sale’. Honestly, even if they don’t have plans to close up, I’m surprised Walmart or Target haven’t bought them. If for no other reason, they could probably get the property and buildings cheap while giving the owner(s) a nice chunk of change. Even one that’s not a competitor but could use the space. Worth noting: in the last 5 (4.5 really) years, they’re stock has fallen almost $50 or nearly 95%. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-stranger-things-have-happened-trump-may-be-right-about-amazon/811687.md?page=4)