# OK, the debt deal is apparently made. How will it affect 2012? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004 "2011-08-01T04:13:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/101 "2011-08-05T01:15:35Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > Paragraph 1. You really don’t know that Karl Marx was the first one to propose a heavy, progressive income tax for the U.S.? Personally, I never felt Marx had a lot to say that was relevant to the United States. > [@galveston](#): > > Fair Tax. What is a joke about everyone paying their fair share? When about half of the population pays NO income tax, I fail to see how that is fair in any sense. I have no objection to raising the effective tax rate on the rich until it matches my own. > [@galveston](#): > > What?? Spending WAS a problem? Didn’t we just raise the debt ceiling above that 14+ trillion so we can borrow more money? Are you saying we are NOT going to spend that? I know, you want to prime the pump with more “stmulus”. Tell me how well that worked last time. Also, the Democrats love to say that they are looking out for the little guy. Really? Who got the stimulus money last time? Did you? Nah!! Yes, WAS. That 14+ trillion dollars WAS spent. (I don’t normally use all caps but I’m trying to communicate here.) And who’s proposing a new “stmulus”? > [@galveston](#): > > I kinda wonder if most of you guys here are 30 or under? It looks like you need me here. Without my input you sound like a mutual admiration society.😉 No, I’m older and wiser. And it’s not like we need you to keep us updated on the latest talking points. We have radios and FOX too. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/102 "2011-08-05T01:40:50Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > Are you famaliar with the story of Henry Ford? When he got rich enough to build cars, he overpaid his employees (according to his detractors). He wanted people to have enough money to buy his cars. > > I agree that too many CEO’s are greedy, unprincipled slugs. > > Tell me again how much good the stimulus did for this country. Former presidents raised the debt ceiling again and again, but Obama has already piled up more debt than ALL his predecessors put together. > > Why would you want to sustain this trend? Roosevelt’s make-work policies didn’t work, it took wartime production, and perhaps, his death to break that cycle. The recent stimulus didn’t work either. Don’t have any other suggestions? > > How about buying into the revolutionary idea of NOT spending what we DON’T have? > > Parting shot. Were you better off under Reagan or now? Are you more optimistic now than you were 10 years ago? I didn’t think so! Were you better under Clinton? Of course the whole country was. You were probably in kindergarten. We were good til, Bush gave all our money away. > **[New York Attorney General Accuses Bank Of New York Mellon Of Fraud, Moves To...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-york-attorney-general_n_919008)** > > New York Attorney General Accuses Bank Of New York Mellon Of Fraud, Moves To Block Bank Of America's Mortgage Deal The bankers were bilking their customers, lying to them and considering their own interests at the expense of the clients. So right wing of them. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/103 "2011-08-05T12:28:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Many feel that there’s no difference. That Obama’s either a complete coward or simply a Republican calling himself a Democrat. “Bush in Blackface” First of all, I am a Democrat and a liberal. This type of thinking actually annoys me more than the far right Tea Party thinking. It’s true Obama is not perfect. But we did get some things we would never have gotten under a real 3rd Bush term. We now have Justices Sotomayor and Kagan instead of two more Alito or Roberts clones. DADT has been repealed. And we got (an admittedly flawed) health care reform bill passed. I actually think that the thinking that their is no difference between any of them is what led to the sweeping Republican and Tea Party victory in 2010. The Tea Partiers have always voted Republican. The only reason the Tea Party had big victories in 2010 was because a lot of Democrats stayed home. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/104 "2011-08-05T13:43:53Z")
From Mars, all politicians look like Earthlings. IOW, **FlikTheBlue** , our friend **Der Trihs** isn’t looking at Obama from a perspective anywhere near the center of any political map. So while you and I see the obvious real world problems with that kind of false equivalence, from **Der** ’s starting point, it’s fairly apt (even if not particularly useful to us Earthlings). ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/105 "2011-08-05T14:17:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So what significant impact, if any, do you think this whole shebang, both the process and the aftermath, will have two Novembers from now? How much of Obama’s voting public are gonna withhold support just because of this? How hard will this be, if at all, on the Republican nominee? Feel free to address any other questions that are obvious/interesting. The net result of the whole dog and pony show was indeed a sugar-coated shit sandwich. However, I believe that it has really opened the eyes of the general public to the destructive spending policies of the libs. They are absolutely addicted to big government spending. With any luck whatsoever, we will see another sweep in Congress like we did in 2010, plus putting a fiscal conservative in the White House, and we can get the government back on track. But it’s gonna take more than rhetoric. It’s gonna take massive hacking and slashing, including closing several government departments. The Departments of Energy and Education would be primo places to start. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/106 "2011-08-05T14:24:06Z")
The dems are the party that attempt to balance the budgets. The repubs are the cut taxes and spend like crazy party. You figure out who causes the deficits. Was Clinton too far back for you to remember? How about Bush? ---
**Author:** ![galveston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/41988e/32.png) [@galveston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galveston)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/107 "2011-08-05T15:18:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I seriously think I could propose a piece of legislation that puppies will be used as prison food and get the tea party people to support it if I gave it a sufficiently euphemistic name like “The American Values Act”. Been reading the Democrat playbook, haventcha?😃 ---
**Author:** ![galveston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/41988e/32.png) [@galveston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galveston)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/108 "2011-08-05T15:33:21Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You squeeze so much right wing stupidity and talking memes in one post. Congratulations Rush. > Our taxes are at the lowest level in 60 years. Corporations actually pay less than other industrialized countries. > When we saved the ginormous big business banks from destroying the worlds economy, they were supposed to lend to small businesses to get the economy going. They did not. > Do you know how little taxes the big corporations pay? The biggest corporations are so adept at tax evasion, that they pay near zero. Some get money back from us. > They have been offshoring jobs for decades. The corporations are not and have not and will not create jobs here, no matter how low you make their taxes. > The small businesses are the job producers. We should have taken over one of the failed banks and made them the small company lender. Then maybe jobs would have come. I think you do not understand me. Most of what you say is spot on. The only exception that I see is the statement about corporation tax rate. The last I heard only Japan has a higher one. They may have dropped theirs by now. We SHOULD stop the gaming of the system, whether corporations or personal, but that is not the same as higher taxes. Call it closing loopholes, if you like that term. In additioin to our uncontrolled spending we have the issue of jobs. Liberals like to point out the surplus when Clinton was president. You have to understand that during that time jobs were leaving the country at an alarming rate. That had to come back to bite us. They left because of tax structure and regulations, both of which choke business. Regulations on industry have to be reduced back to those absolutelly essential. Example; EPA wants to issue regulations to further clean up emissions from power plants. Is that good? The US already has the cleanest air in the industrialized world. Air moves, and China is the biggest polluter. To further cripple us will not help the planet when other nations will not help, and it only gives them an economic adavntage for us to do so. Right now, we are facing the possibility of rolling black outs due to the fact that government has hindered the construction of new generation plants. That is sheer stupidity, as we have seen this coming for years or decades. So now, we don’t have the jobs this new construction would give and we don’t have the electricity either. Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![galveston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/41988e/32.png) [@galveston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galveston)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/109 "2011-08-05T15:40:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Were you better under Clinton? Of course the whole country was. You were probably in kindergarten. We were good til, Bush gave all our money away. > [New York Attorney General Accuses Bank Of New York Mellon Of Fraud, Moves To Block Bank Of America's Mortgage Deal | HuffPost Impact](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/04/new-york-attorney-general_n_919008.html) > The bankers were bilking their customers, lying to them and considering their own interests at the expense of the clients. So right wing of them. I just love the way you guys tell me I am copying Rush or Fox news, then post a link to Huffington Post! Funneeeee! Kindergarten? I voted for Nixon, the first time.😃 So you admit that Reagan did a good job? Yes, I agree that the bankers should not have gotten a dollar of any stimulus. Feel better now? I also think that Obama was way out of line dictating to GM on who would run it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/110 "2011-08-05T15:56:48Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > So you admit that Reagan did a good job? So you admit [increasing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) the national debt by nearly two trillion dollars is a good job? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/111 "2011-08-05T16:08:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So you admit [nearly doubling the national debt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms)is a good job? It was a snowball rolling down a Bush built ramp. Obama stopped the shedding of jobs which Bush left us with. If we kept the Bush policies in place, we would have been much worse off. There were 170,000 jobs created last month thanks to Obama. Unemployment dropped to 9.1. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/112 "2011-08-05T16:29:25Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > Been reading the Democrat playbook, haventcha?😃 No, I’m Canadian, so American politics are a mere spectator sport for me, and though colossal stupidity and ignorance afflicts Americans of all types (to be fair, Canadians, too), the recent tea party upswing (and the religious politics that have been in play since 1980 or so) is particularly malodorous. If you want to pay lower taxes, fine. At least demonstrate some basic knowledge of arithmetic and recognize the massive entitlement and defense cuts that would require, with the corresponding effect on millions of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/113 "2011-08-05T16:44:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, I’m Canadian, so American politics are a mere spectator sport for me Lucky you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/114 "2011-08-05T16:58:29Z")
Blaming Reagan’s deficit spending on Bush… That’s a new one. For clarity, do you mean George W., George H. W., or Preston? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/115 "2011-08-05T17:27:12Z")
Ahem. [_Prescott_ Bush](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush) That is all. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/116 "2011-08-05T18:00:48Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > I just love the way you guys tell me I am copying Rush or Fox news, then post a link to Huffington Post! Funneeeee! > > Kindergarten? I voted for Nixon, the first time.😃 > > So you admit that Reagan did a good job? > > Yes, I agree that the bankers should not have gotten a dollar of any stimulus. > > Feel better now? > > I also think that Obama was way out of line dictating to GM on who would run it. I would feel better if you were able to recognize that Bush lost over 880,000 jobs in a single month. Obama has now had positive job growth for 17 straight months. Can you understand which is better? Did they mention that on Rush today? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/117 "2011-08-05T18:43:27Z")
> **[CHART OF THE DAY: It's Official: Obama Is Creaming Bush When It Comes To Jobs](https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-jobs-lost-in-the-bush-and-obama-administration-2010-2)** Here is a simple graph showing the difference. It will not be shown on Fox. ---
**Author:** ![galveston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/41988e/32.png) [@galveston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galveston)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/118 "2011-08-05T20:09:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So you admit [increasing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms) the national debt by nearly two trillion dollars is a good job? Let’s see, Reagan increased the national debt by nearly 2 trillion dollars. That was in 8 years, wasn’t it? How much has Obama increased it in less than 4 years? You just made one of my points. Obama is spending the republic into oblivion. ---
**Author:** ![galveston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/41988e/32.png) [@galveston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galveston)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/119 "2011-08-05T20:11:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It was a snowball rolling down a Bush built ramp. Obama stopped the shedding of jobs which Bush left us with. If we kept the Bush policies in place, we would have been much worse off. > There were 170,000 jobs created last month thanks to Obama. Unemployment dropped to 9.1. Dropped to 9.1 % unemployment? I wouldn’t quote that too loudly in the coming months if you want Obama to be re-elected.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004/120 "2011-08-05T20:13:20Z")
> [@galveston](#): > > Let’s see, Reagan increased the national debt by nearly 2 trillion dollars. So increasing the debt is good. Therefore, if Obama increases the debt faster than Reagan, he is doing a better job. That is the only conclusion I can draw from your screwball logic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-the-debt-deal-is-apparently-made-how-will-it-affect-2012/591004.md?page=7)