# OK vexillologists, out there! Name your favorite flags and your most disliked flags **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562 "2010-05-06T21:51:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/121 "2015-10-25T17:59:35Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > …Dishonorable mention for state flags goes to [Missouri](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-mo.html). This is because of star-abuse. It has the state seal and around the seal is a circle of 24 stars (Missouri being the 24th state). But then in the upper part of the seal is another set of 24 stars! Come on, how many sets of stars do you need on a flag? One is certainly enough… I’m not crazy about the Missouri flag, either. But both the U.S. Presidential and Vice Presidential flags have two sets of stars, and I think they’re very handsome: > **[Flag of the president of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_President_of_the_United_States)** > > The flag of the president of the United States consists of the presidential coat of arms on a dark blue background. While having the same design as the presidential seal since 1945, the flag has a separate history, and the designs on the flag and seal have at different times influenced each other. The flag is often displayed by the president in official photos, or flown next to the casket of a former president in official funeral processions, and flown on the president's motorcade. The flag is n... > **[Flag of the vice president of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Vice_President_of_the_United_States)** > > The flag of the vice president of the United States consists of the U.S. vice presidential coat of arms on a white background, with four dark blue stars in the corners. A version of the flag is kept in the vice president's office, is sometimes displayed by the vice president in official photos, and is flown on the vice president's motorcade. > The first official flag for the vice president was specified in 1936, although a special design was used at least twice during the 1910s. The flag has sha... ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/122 "2015-10-25T18:28:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > But both the U.S. Presidential and Vice Presidential flags have two sets of stars, and I think they’re very handsome… The small stars are exceedingly redundant, given how many other ways the Original Thirteen are invoked in the design. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/123 "2015-10-27T17:49:12Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Count me as a Maryland Flag hater. It makes me queasy just looking at it. I used to eat at a cheesy Italian restaurant festooned with medieval Italian horse racing flags. The Maryland flag would fit right in. Some people think it’s so bad it’s good, including flag enthusiast (and educational YouTuber) C.G.P. Grey. I can see both perspectives. I honestly like the Arkansas flag, just with the Confederate star removed (as it wasn’t a part of the original). I’m okay with getting rid of the extra stars and state name, but the name is kinda important to Arkansans in a way it isn’t to other states, so I understand it being there. And, yeah, I really love the Ohio flag. I want more non-rectangles. Not a big fan of the stars, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/124 "2015-10-27T18:58:05Z")
The Maryland flag is very… _busy_, it’s true, but it’s heraldically accurate. Colorful and intense. I like it myself. Not crazy about the Arkansas flag. I’d give it a C. And yes, I love the Ohio flag, too. Unique in all the right ways (and I’m not just saying that because I’m a Buckeye). ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/125 "2015-10-27T20:42:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No kidding! My favorite is the one featuring a diamond with sparkle-rays coming out of it, and also has a drawing of something that is either an anthropomorphized tree or a guy holding up a gigantic green rock. At least they meet the “can be drawn by a child” criterion. They also remind me of would-be retro video game terrain. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/126 "2015-10-27T21:38:33Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > At least they meet the “can be drawn by a child” criterion. They also remind me of would-be retro video game terrain. The “could be drawn by a child” criterion does not mean “look like they were designed by a child,” as all of those flags do. ETA, as a native Marylander, I think its flag is the second-best U.S. state flag; only New Mexico’s is better. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/127 "2015-10-27T22:54:59Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No kidding! My favorite is the one featuring a diamond with sparkle-rays coming out of it, and also has a drawing of something that is either an anthropomorphized tree or a guy holding up a gigantic green rock. I liked the one with [the white Dalek in a wizard hat.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_County#/media/File:Flag_of_Maryland_County.svg) That’s the flag of Maryland County. Apparently _Maryland_ and _good flag design_ are [mutually exclusive concepts.](http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/images/md_fi.gif) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/128 "2015-10-27T23:27:10Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The Maryland flag is very… _busy_, it’s true, but it’s heraldically accurate. Colorful and intense. I like it myself. “Heraldically accurate” is a positive attribute of you are medieval Europe. Too bad Maryland is neither. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/129 "2015-10-27T23:38:20Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I liked the one with [the white Dalek in a wizard hat.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_County#/media/File:Flag_of_Maryland_County.svg) > > That’s the flag of Maryland County. Apparently _Maryland_ and _good flag design_ are [mutually exclusive concepts.](http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/images/md_fi.gif) The flag of Maryland (USA) may not be to your taste, graphically, but many people consider it an excellent flag, including [Ted Kaye, author of “Good Flag, Bad Flag.”](http://www.amazon.com/Good-Flag-Bad-Ted-Kaye/dp/097477281X) And I don’t think a resident of the [state whose flag remains a very thinly disguised version](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29) of the [actual flag of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America) has much room to criticize other states’ flags! In all the recent outcry against the Confederate Battle Flag, I don’t understand why there were no calls to remove and redesign Georgia’s flag, which strongly resembles the real “stars and bars.” > [@even\_sven](#): > > “Heraldically accurate” is a positive attribute of you are medieval Europe. Too bad Maryland is neither. Even though I live in Las Vegas now, as a Maryland native, I see I’m going to have to challenge several of you to settle this matter in the traditional Maryland fashion: [jousting](http://www.marylandjousting.com/history.html)! (It’s the Maryland state sport. Really!) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/130 "2015-10-28T00:06:23Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > The flag of Maryland (USA) may not be to your taste, graphically, but many people consider it an excellent flag, including [Ted Kaye, author of “Good Flag, Bad Flag.”](http://www.amazon.com/Good-Flag-Bad-Ted-Kaye/dp/097477281X) > > And I don’t think a resident of the [state whose flag remains a very thinly disguised version](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29) of the [actual flag of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America) has much room to criticize other states’ flags! In all the recent outcry against the Confederate Battle Flag, I don’t understand why there were no calls to remove and redesign Georgia’s flag, which strongly resembles the real “stars and bars.” Because it’s a helluva an improvement on [our previous one.](http://www.stainlessbanners.com/photos/3x5-georgia-flag.jpg) And it took us _years_ to get that damned thing banished. Besides, considered strictly from a design point of view, and completely ignoring the historical connotations, the Stars and Bars was a pretty good design. Maryland’s flag, on the other hand, is not only a visual cacophony of clashing colors, it’s also the heraldic banner of an aristocratic British family that once had ownership of the colony. As such, it’s fundamentally unAmerican and the symbol of decadent aristocratic tyranny that our noble forefathers shed their honest blood to purge from our glorious country. So there. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/131 "2015-10-28T00:22:27Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Because it’s a helluva an improvement on [our previous one.](http://www.stainlessbanners.com/photos/3x5-georgia-flag.jpg) And it took us _years_ to get that damned thing banished. Well, I’ll grant you that. > [@](#): > > Besides, considered strictly from a design point of view, and completely ignoring the historical connotations, the Stars and Bars was a pretty good design. Well, from a purely graphic point of view, [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany#/media/File:Flag_of_German_Reich_%281935%E2%80%931945%29.svg) is a rather attractive flag. I’m just not sure that it is always possible to ignore the historical connotations. > [@](#): > > Maryland’s flag, on the other hand, is not only a visual cacophony of clashing colors… One man’s visual cacophony is another’s bold and distinctive design. You’ll grant that you’d be unlikely to mistake it for another flag, unlike all those state seals on blue fields? > [@](#): > > …it’s also the heraldic banner of an aristocratic British family that once had ownership of the colony. As such, it’s fundamentally unAmerican and the symbol of decadent aristocratic tyranny that our noble forefathers shed their honest blood to purge from our glorious country. One of the preferred aspects of good flag design is a historical connection. We Marylanders are pretty fond of Lord Baltimore, and don’t hold a grudge against the English anymore. > [@](#): > > So there. Neener, neener! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/132 "2015-10-28T00:38:04Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > And I don’t think a resident of the [state whose flag remains a very thinly disguised version](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29) of the [actual flag of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America) has much room to criticize other states’ flags! In all the recent outcry against the Confederate Battle Flag, I don’t understand why there were no calls to remove and redesign Georgia’s flag, which strongly resembles the real “stars and bars.” > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Because it’s a helluva an improvement on [our previous one.](http://www.stainlessbanners.com/photos/3x5-georgia-flag.jpg) And it took us _years_ to get that damned thing banished. And the first attempt at a compromise, [the 2001-2003 “placemat flag”, was an abomination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_U.S._states#/media/File:Flag_of_the_State_of_Georgia_%282001-2003%29.svg)… Oy what were they thinking. But I’ve mentioned before, I wonder why they did not just go [back to the pre-1956 flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_U.S._states#/media/File:Flag_of_the_State_of_Georgia_%281920-1956%29.svg), which may have been also stars-and-bars based but not as faithful as the latest one. As for Maryland, hey, that Banner Of Arms does fulfill one of the functions of a flag – you know the Maryland regiment is never going to be confused as to where they are supposed to form up in the fog of battle 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/133 "2015-10-28T00:44:18Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > One of the preferred aspects of good flag design is a historical connection. We Marylanders are pretty fond of Lord Baltimore, and don’t hold a grudge against the English anymore. > > Neener, neener! You lobsterback! You redcoat sympathizer! You…you…you _neo-Tory!_ > [@](#): > > Well, from a purely graphic point of view, [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany#/media/File:Flag_of_German_Reich_%281935%E2%80%931945%29.svg) is a rather attractive flag. I’m just not sure that it is always possible to ignore the historical connotations.\* \ ***commasense’s** post re-arranged for humorous effect If I can get serious for a moment, you’re right on both counts. For what it’s worth, the Confederate Battle Flag is, in my mind, a very good design. But of course it’s impossible to separate the swastika or the Battle Flag from the ideologies they represent. However, it seems to me that you _can_ do that with the Stars and Bars. Googling “Confederate flag” brings up images of [the Battle Flag](http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Flags/rebel-flag.jpg); I think that shows that most Americans anymore are unfamiliar enough with history to not recognize the Stars and Bars in Georgia’s flag. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/134 "2015-10-28T01:04:15Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > You lobsterback! You redcoat sympathizer! You…you…you _neo-Tory!_ Now, now, Marylanders ARE quite respectful of the memory of Lord of Baltimore, as a founder. But they miss more the late Earl of Weaver. IIRC in another flag thread on the board there was discussion about whether among the southern states any representation of white stars on blue foreground over red background (Arkansas, Tennessee), or of a saltire (Alabama, Florida) should also be presumed to be a way to “sneak in” the Confederate symbols. And yes as you point out it’s always allusions and references to the Northern Virginia Battle Flag (let’s face it the Stars and Bars \*were \*a bit unimaginative). ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/135 "2015-10-28T01:47:24Z")
Maryland’s flag is so eye-searingly hideous that it’s kind of awesome. I’d much rather have that vexillogical monstrosity for a state flag than what I do have - a flag that’s just as boring as all the state-seal-on-blue-background flags with the bonus feature of looking like somebody urinated on it. > **[Coat of arms and flag of New Jersey](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_New_Jersey#/media/File%3AFlag_of_New_Jersey.svg)** > > The coat of arms of the state of New Jersey includes: > It was originally designed by Pierre Eugene du Simitiere in 1777 and was modified slightly in 1928. > The seal is the central motif in the flag of New Jersey and the great seal of the state of New Jersey. > The coat of arms contains a horse's head; beneath that is a helmet, showing that New Jersey governs itself, and it has three plows on a shield to highlight the state's agriculture tradition, which shows why the state has the nickname "Garden... ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/136 "2015-10-28T02:54:51Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > IIRC in another flag thread on the board there was discussion about whether among the southern states any representation of white stars on blue foreground over red background (Arkansas, Tennessee), or of a saltire (Alabama, Florida) should also be presumed to be a way to “sneak in” the Confederate symbols. Of course they are. At the time of their adoption, it wouldn’t even have been very sneaky. The _red and white_ combination, in particular, was widely recognized as secesh colors. Speaking of which, > [@commasense](#): > > The flag of Maryland (USA) may not be to your taste, graphically, but many people consider it an excellent flag, including [Ted Kaye, author of “Good Flag, Bad Flag.”](http://www.amazon.com/Good-Flag-Bad-Ted-Kaye/dp/097477281X) > > And I don’t think a resident of the [state whose flag remains a very thinly disguised version](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29) of the [actual flag of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America) has much room to criticize other states’ flags! In all the recent outcry against the Confederate Battle Flag, I don’t understand why there were no calls to remove and redesign Georgia’s flag, which strongly resembles the real “stars and bars.” [that’s what the red-and-white of Maryland’s flag is, too.](http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/history/marylands-flag-confederate-symbol-crossland-banner-calvert-family.php) There are five different Maryland Confederate unit battle flags [seen here](http://www.loeser.us/flags/civil-southern.html), including three stars-and-bars patterns, but also the guidon of Gen. Bradley Johnson, with the red cross bottony on white. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/137 "2015-10-28T03:07:53Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > …I think that shows that most Americans anymore are unfamiliar enough with history to not recognize the Stars and Bars in Georgia’s flag. Quite true. I have a friend who used to fly the S&B in a very liberal suburban enclave (he was interested in Civil War flags, but not a neo-Confederate) and no one ever complained. If he flew the Confederate battle flag, though, I’m sure someone would’ve called the police. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/138 "2015-10-28T03:09:11Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Maryland’s flag is so eye-searingly hideous that it’s kind of awesome. > > I’d much rather have that vexillogical monstrosity for a state flag than what I do have - a flag that’s just as boring as all the state-seal-on-blue-background flags with the bonus feature of looking like somebody urinated on it. > > [Coat of arms and flag of New Jersey - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_New_Jersey#/media/File%3AFlag_of_New_Jersey.svg) Yeah, but on the other hand, what other state flag - or country flag, come to that - is buff-colored? New Jersey’s flag is not very imaginative design-wise, yes, but it’s unique. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/139 "2015-10-28T16:58:25Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Of course they are. At the time of their adoption, it wouldn’t even have been very sneaky. The _red and white_ combination, in particular, was widely recognized as secesh colors. > > Speaking of which, > > [that’s what the red-and-white of Maryland’s flag is, too.](http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/history/marylands-flag-confederate-symbol-crossland-banner-calvert-family.php) > > There are five different Maryland Confederate unit battle flags [seen here](http://www.loeser.us/flags/civil-southern.html), including three stars-and-bars patterns, but also the guidon of Gen. Bradley Johnson, with the red cross bottony on white. Thanks for fighting my ignorance, **Peremensoe**. I didn’t realize the Maryland flag only dated to 1904, and that its quartered design, while based on George Calvert (Lord Baltimore)'s coat of arms, was a conciliatory measure following the Civil War. FYI, here’s [another article](http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/26981/marylands-flag-may-be-more-symbolic-than-you-realize/)on the Maryland flag. > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > You lobsterback! You redcoat sympathizer! You…you…you _neo-Tory!_ > > [snip] > > If I can get serious for a moment, you’re right on both counts. For what it’s worth, the Confederate Battle Flag is, in my mind, a very good design. But of course it’s impossible to separate the swastika or the Battle Flag from the ideologies they represent. > > However, it seems to me that you _can_ do that with the Stars and Bars. Googling “Confederate flag” brings up images of [the Battle Flag](http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Flags/rebel-flag.jpg); I think that shows that most Americans anymore are unfamiliar enough with history to not recognize the Stars and Bars in Georgia’s flag. I agree that most people do not associate the flags of Georgia, Florida, and Alabama with the Confederacy, but that’s what makes them so insidious as crypto-symbols of the racist past of the Confederacy. (The red saltire of Florida and Alabama were battle flags of Confederate regiments.) Racists who know their background can smugly gloat that they’ve put one over on all those who don’t know that history. Of course, the current [flag of Mississippi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi) incorporates the Confederate Battle Flag into a modified Stars and Bars design, so it’s a little more obvious in its harking back to the Confederacy. According to the Wiki page, there have been some moves to change it, but so far not successfully. IMO, all of them should be purged of any trace of Confederate symbolism. (Of course, someone might very well call for my beloved Maryland flag to be redesigned on the same grounds. Ouch! How can I rationalize making other people change without having to make a similar sacrifice myself? I’ll have to work on this!) But on a serious note, I’d like to take this opportunity to apologize to **Slow Moving Vehicle** and other others in this thread for possibly crossing a line in post #129 by bringing politics into what was primarily a discussion of the graphic appeal (or not) of various flags, and for making what could have been taken as a personal comment about **SMV.** Although as this post shows, I have serious concerns about the symbolism of various southern flags, my original intent was primarily light hearted, and I’m gratified that it seems to have been taken that way by everyone else. But after I went to bed last night, I began to think that maybe I should have kept the politics out of this thread. So my thanks to everyone for taking things in the way I intended and for the thoughtful conversation on the political aspects of flags. And my apologies to anyone who may have been offended or felt my post was inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562/140 "2015-10-28T20:23:29Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Thanks for fighting my ignorance, **Peremensoe**. I didn’t realize the Maryland flag only dated to 1904, and that its quartered design, while based on George Calvert (Lord Baltimore)'s coat of arms, was a conciliatory measure following the Civil War. You’re welcome. To be clear, while the present design has only been the official state flag for a century or so, it _is_ still an actual and correct heraldic coat of arms, and its two patterns, either together or apart, were popularly-recognized emblems of the state long before the official flag act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-vexillologists-out-there-name-your-favorite-flags-and-your-most-disliked-flags/538562.md?page=8)