# OK, what's the other side of the story here \[HOA sueing over a pick-up truck\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351 "2015-01-20T02:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/21 "2015-01-20T14:06:36Z")
From the picture in the linked article, as well as the statement in the article that “Every lot has two parking spaces, including one space in a garage”, I thought that these houses might be duplexes that share a driveway. In that case, I could understand some restrictions on what kind of vehicles could be parked there. Some pickup trucks might be too big to allow the driveway-sharing neighbor to park. But a look at Google maps shows that the houses, which are duplexes, have [individual driveways](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=511+Kimry+Moor,+Fayetteville,+NY&hl=en&ll=43.02609,-76.023427&spn=0.000615,0.001629&sll=39.343856,-82.999649&sspn=0.083237,0.208569&oq=511+kimry&hnear=511+Kimry+Moor,+Fayetteville,+New+York+13066-1855&t=h&z=20) wide enough for two vehicles, and probably two-car garages. So the quote from the article about parking spots doesn’t seem to fit the facts. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/22 "2015-01-20T14:58:45Z")
Some of our employees drive company trucks home. I have had to order plain white (in this case the trucks are white) magnets to cover any company markings on the trucks when they’re parked if the employee lives in an HOA community. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/23 "2015-01-20T16:34:06Z")
When we were looking for a house a couple of years ago, “no HOAs” was pretty much the one condition I was completely inflexible on. In a country where people so cherish the concept of limited government, it surprises me that so many folks would willingly take on what essentially amounts to an extra layer of government, and one more prone to takeover by fascist dicks than the real government. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/24 "2015-01-20T16:57:34Z")
Eh, some people prefer HOAs. In some places you can get single-family homes that are managed like condos, with the HOA responsible for external maintenance and landscaping. It works out like the Apple of real estate-- you get a system that works well and doesn’t require a lot of effort, but you lose some autonomy and customization. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/25 "2015-01-20T16:59:35Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > I can only speak to Illinois. For some reason, all pickups, whether they’re those little mini-jobs, or lifted crew-cab monsters, have TRUCK license plates. This designates them as trucks and are not regular passenger vehicles whether used as such or not. Trucks are not allowed on LSD, Boulevards, or to be parked on residential streets. So it’s not that they’re pickups, per se, but their TRUCK plates that cause the restrictions. Seems to me, change their license plate designation, and the weirdness goes away. I have no idea why they are classified that way. > > So have at it with your large van/SUV - heck, there’s even a huge cupcake/food truck (pardon - van) that parks around my neighborhood with no problems - but put a pickup bed on it and forget about it. So, how do people in Illinois get to their homes or homes of friends and family? They have to pay to park/store their personal vehicles away from their residence and walk or take a cab to their homes? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/26 "2015-01-20T17:07:22Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > When we were looking for a house a couple of years ago, “no HOAs” was pretty much the one condition I was completely inflexible on. > > In a country where people so cherish the concept of limited government, it surprises me that so many folks would willingly take on what essentially amounts to an extra layer of government, and one more prone to takeover by fascist dicks than the real government. I think anyone who has ever lived in a nice house and had the bad luck to have one or more “bad” neighbors can appreciate theory behind HOAs. \*\*even sven \*\*- great comparison to Apple. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/27 "2015-01-20T19:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Paul Curtin, lawyer for the Kimry Moor Homeowners’ Association, said the case “is a matter of restrictive covenants, and interpretation of those covenants.” > > Curtin said a pickup “is not a passenger vehicle by definition.” Therefore, whether the truck is registered as a commercial vehicle or not is "not germane’’ to the case, he added. The Orlandos don’t own their driveway and need to comply with the rules, he said. Why do I have this feeling that if it _were_ registered as a commercial vehicle, that would be completely germane to the case? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/28 "2015-01-20T19:57:58Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > What the hell is a “pleasure automobile”? ISTM that it any vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine, which is dedicated to the pursuit of and participation in pleasurable activities would qualify. And a truck with a tramp stamp in the back seems like it should be a slam dunk. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/29 "2015-01-20T20:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Curtin said a pickup “is not a passenger vehicle by definition.” What is the source of the definition, I wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/30 "2015-01-20T20:09:16Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > HOA managers can sometimes be batshit mental. I once received a call and letter from the HOA because the grass in our front lawn was dead. In February. :smack: > > So my response was, “It’s FEBRUARY, you git! EVERYTHING IS DEAD.” > > No further complaints came. The lawn came back to life in April, as normal. My mom, who lives in drought stricken California, got a letter from her HOA encouraging everyone to plant drought-tolerant landscaping to reduce the use of water. She consulted her nurseryman, who recommended a variety of drought-tolerant ground cover instead of a lawn, which she subsequently planted. Fast forward a few months, and she gets another letter, complaining about the “weeds” in her front yard! ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/31 "2015-01-20T22:07:25Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > From the picture in the linked article, as well as the statement in the article that “Every lot has two parking spaces, including one space in a garage”, I thought that these houses might be duplexes that share a driveway. In that case, I could understand some restrictions on what kind of vehicles could be parked there. Some pickup trucks might be too big to allow the driveway-sharing neighbor to park. But a look at Google maps shows that the houses, which are duplexes, have [individual driveways](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=511+Kimry+Moor,+Fayetteville,+NY&hl=en&ll=43.02609,-76.023427&spn=0.000615,0.001629&sll=39.343856,-82.999649&sspn=0.083237,0.208569&oq=511+kimry&hnear=511+Kimry+Moor,+Fayetteville,+New+York+13066-1855&t=h&z=20) wide enough for two vehicles, and probably two-car garages. So the quote from the article about parking spots doesn’t seem to fit the facts. No, I think the article has it right, only because I skimmed through the CC&Rs: One of the resident’s parking spaces is in the garage, the other is either in the garage or in the driveway. I think the thrust of this kind of restriction (and I’ve seen it some of the associations that we managed) is to guarantee that the garage is used as such. It prevents, more or less, using the garage as a play-room, shop, storage area or guest room. A little bit whacky, but common. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What is the source of the definition, I wonder. \ Come with me and you’ll be in a world of pure imagination \ ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/32 "2015-01-20T22:21:18Z")
I have a feeling the homeowner is screwed. HOA boards are typically a bunch of retired busybodies that have nothing better to do than mold the whole neighborhood into their own little vision of utopia. I’ve lived in one. Federal, state, county, HOA. I got rid of one invasive and expensive level of government my moving out of a HOA. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/33 "2015-01-20T22:25:21Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > I can only speak to Illinois. For some reason, all pickups, whether they’re those little mini-jobs, or lifted crew-cab monsters, have TRUCK license plates. This designates them as trucks and are not regular passenger vehicles whether used as such or not. Trucks are not allowed on LSD, Boulevards, or to be parked on residential streets. So it’s not that they’re pickups, per se, but their TRUCK plates that cause the restrictions. Seems to me, change their license plate designation, and the weirdness goes away. I have no idea why they are classified that way. > > So have at it with your large van/SUV - heck, there’s even a huge cupcake/food truck (pardon - van) that parks around my neighborhood with no problems - but put a pickup bed on it and forget about it. Brookfield, Wisconsin also participates (-ed?) in this same jackassery. When Lincoln and Cadillac produced pickups, they ceased being considered capital-T trucks, IMO. HOAs can also bite my tailpipe. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/34 "2015-01-20T22:48:33Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Why do I have this feeling that if it _were_ registered as a commercial vehicle, that would be completely germane to the case? Because you’re not any regular old turnip, but a Vinyl one? The HOA is going to lose because the covenant says nothing about the number of doors or the lack of a “bed”, and the vehicle clearly meets all the actual requirements of the covenant. If I were the Judge I’d also make them pay the defendants costs plus a couple grand in pain and suffering for wasting everyone’s time. /shrug I’d also make the HOAs lawyer pay some sort of “Seriously, don’t give your clients stupid advice” fine to the local pickup enthusiasts group. 😃 Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/35 "2015-01-20T23:47:05Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > An HOA is just another level of local government. Every now and then they fly off the handle at a homeowner, but the same is true of cities and counties sometimes too… Except that unlike cities & counties governments HOA’s aren’t elected by universal suffrage, or bound by the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/36 "2015-01-21T00:01:14Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > So, how do people in Illinois get to their homes or homes of friends and family? They have to pay to park/store their personal vehicles away from their residence and walk or take a cab to their homes? There’s a pickup truck residential parking sticker. Or they park on a “business” street, which is never more than two blocks away. Also, this is just in Chicago (and maybe some suburbs). You go elsewhere in Illinois and a huge chunk of the population have trucks. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/37 "2015-01-21T00:08:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What is the source of the definition, I wonder. I imagine it was rectally derived. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/38 "2015-01-21T00:26:03Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > So, how do people in Illinois get to their homes or homes of friends and family? They have to pay to park/store their personal vehicles away from their residence and walk or take a cab to their homes? Yeah, sorry, I wasn’t very clear in my post. The pickup = truck license plate thing is the State, the driving and parking restrictions I was referring to are in the City of Chicago. I’m sure there are some suburbs and other neighborhoods with street parking and driveway HOA rules, but I’m personally unaware of those. But in Chicago, yes, if someone were to visit with a pickup, it’s in their best interest to park off the street in a garage, just in case. I can’t say the rules are very strictly enforced, but if the cops are looking for a reason, they can use it to pull a pickup over or to issue a ticket for parking on the wrong street. ---
**Author:** ![InsomniaMama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ad7895/32.png) [@InsomniaMama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InsomniaMama)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/39 "2015-01-21T02:06:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Though, oddly enough, I’ve never heard of that “no pickups” rule being _enforced_ on any of those streets/boulevards/drives - I lived in Chicago for 15 years and even after we moved out we’ve driven our pickup through the city many times. I know someone that received a ticket for driving a panel van (is that what they are called? Vans with no back windows, used for businesses?) on Lake Shore Drive. It was the first I’d ever heard of the law. I think it’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351/40 "2015-01-21T02:44:16Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I imagine it was **rectally derived**. Band name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-whats-the-other-side-of-the-story-here-hoa-sueing-over-a-pick-up-truck/710351.md?page=3)