# OK, when do we leave? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024 "2018-06-29T22:20:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/21 "2018-07-04T13:58:21Z")
I’ve looked into it and my family is eligible for emigration to canada, new zealand and Australia through a combination of being young, highly educated and having decent savings. That being said if i were leaving I’d move to Chile. The only thing keeping us from moving is my wife is very attached to her family and if they didn’t leave with us she’s not interested which is why we’ve both turned down jobs in OZ. Politically, i can’t think of any reason I’d move. I’m a straight white male so unless we were getting repressed i don’t have any reason to flee and could do more good fighting from within. Now leaving for a lower cost of living, better health care, and a great location with good weather those make sense no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/22 "2018-07-04T15:13:37Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Almost nobody _can_ leave, in practical terms. Americans who have an “in” due to an accident of birth like dual citizenship, or who have made themselves internationally in demand are very much the exception. I don’t have dual citizenship and I was not hired by a multinational. I do have a small software business that I can run from anywhere. Georgia allows a stay of 360 days and in other places I stayed 90 as a normal tourist. Eventually I set up a Czech company and that allowed me to get residency. If you want to leave, it is doable, but it takes money and drive. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/23 "2018-07-04T19:25:16Z")
I proposed the Kerguelen Islands in the Indian Ocean because they’re the only bit of land antipodal to the contiguous United States. To get as far away as possible. Only French military people and scientists live there, though. At least I can parlez-vous français. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/24 "2018-07-04T19:44:18Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I wouldn’t mind entering a Schengen-style free travel and work area with other developed nations, but they wouldn’t allow the USA to join due to health care migration. The most obvious Schengen-style economic area is between the US and Canada. When I was younger I thought it would be an absolutely terrific idea, but there are two huge problems with that. One, as you say, is the problem of health care migration. [It’s a bit of a problem even now.](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada.html) The other one is guns. [That, too, is a problem even now.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/americans-crossing-into-canada-carrying-guns-with-alarming-frequency/article35899459/) And it’s a problem [in more ways than one](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-gun-problem-is-creeping-into-canada/2016/02/13/a28cd1e4-c388-11e5-b933-31c93021392a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.27f02536d8bd). I don’t see any short-term solution to any of those issues. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/25 "2018-07-04T19:50:53Z")
I’m leaving again once I hit 70 and really do retire. But it has nothing to do with politics. My money will go much farther in upcountry Thailand, a country I’m already very comfortable with. Having only recently entered my 60s though, that’s still a ways away. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/26 "2018-07-04T22:38:46Z")
Nothing would make me leave, and for one reason: If those who oppose the abominations and can afford to leave go, what happens to those who are victimized and too poor to emigrate? I’ll go down with the ship, fighting for the US we should be, even if it turns out to be a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/27 "2018-07-04T23:02:24Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Actually, I’m amazed at the number of Americans I have met personally who don’t understand the concept of borders and visas. > They actually think that if they wanted to, they could move to Toronto just like they could move to Chicago. > > After all, back during the Vietnam War, didn’t lots of guys avoid the draft by moving to Canada? It should be easy-peasy. > > Remember a couple elections ago, when Michael Moore made a movie called Fahrenheit 911? > Lots of people on the internet (even here at the Sdope) were talking about moving to Canada if the dreaded and unthinkable should happen (Bush getting elected). > It was mostly hot air, of course…but while spewing all that hot air, very few people actually realized that their idea was impossible. It’s not that crazy for Americans to not understand. Most Western countries have controlled borders, visa requirements and etc for people of means and who are part of normal society. But if you just walk into the country uninvited, or sail a makeshift raft into its territorial waters, and explain that your home country is a shithole, the vast majority of Western Europe/Canada etc will let you stay indefinitely. Based on the reaction when America tries to disallow spurious claims of refugee status or to stem the tide of illegal border crossings, I suspect a great many people don’t understand the laws of sovereignty at all. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/28 "2018-07-05T01:00:16Z")
Leave? To where? Why would I leave? Should we give the country to a bunch of lying assholes? Why would I do that? .22 .30 .356 (THAT’s gonna hurt) .357 .45 Says I might as well stay. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/29 "2018-07-05T01:18:09Z")
To amend my above thoughts. I am not hoping for any type of internal war or conflict. It is just clear that many of Trumps supporters are impervious to rational thought. If they come to my property and harass me directly, I will call the cops. If that doesn’t work, well, I’ll have to revisit my plan. ---
**Author:** ![Rabbi\_Mohel\_Skinberg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5daacb/32.png) [@Rabbi\_Mohel\_Skinberg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabbi_Mohel_Skinberg)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/30 "2018-07-05T02:04:26Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > **OK, when do we leave?** What do you mean “leave”, OP…? 😕 For as far as this forum is concerned – in fact, as far as many, if not most dullard Amerimutts “think” \*(_term used more loosely than “president” is, when preceded by the number 45)_ – the U.S. is doin’ just dandy – Thanks! – and any allusions to the contrary are bunkum bordering on blasphemy! Just read for yourself: [Tomorrow Will Be Like Yesterday: The Hot-Hand Fallacy Defined](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=857488) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/31 "2018-07-05T15:42:37Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Many folks, myself included, are alternately outraged and appalled by the actions of trump and his cohorts. And “threatening” to leave the country if so-and-so gets elected is old hat. But when does it stop being talk. What is your personal “tipping point”? What action or series of actions would convince you, personally, that it’s time to “get out of Dodge”? You can go where you wish. If you’re from another country, you can go back there. For most native-born Americans Canada is the logical choice, because of proximity and so much shared culture. I have my answer for what it would take for me to give up on the good old U.S.A., but I’ll wait for a few responses from others. I and my wife have discussed moving from the US. Not because of Trump (or Obama, or Bush or whatever the outrage de jour is), but simply as a retirement option. We looked at Canada. I’ve lived in Canada (as an American) and I like the country, but it would take a pretty large chunk of our retirement to make it happen, so it’s impractical. Same goes for much of western Europe or the UK or Australia or New Zealand (all of which we have discussed and looked into). It’s actually a lot harder to immigrate to a lot of those countries than people think. For my part I’d probably move to one of the central or south American countries if anywhere. I speak spanish after all and our money would go further. It’s also easier to move to a few of them than to the other countries I listed. In the end we will probably just move to somewhere in the US. I certainly wouldn’t move because I don’t like what Trump is doing…to me, that’s a reason to stay and vote. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/32 "2018-07-05T16:16:22Z")
I ain’t going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/33 "2018-07-05T16:20:31Z")
I know several Americans who have already departed for greener pastures. I met a family that fled NYC immediately after Trump was elected because, in their words, they could see the signs of impending fascism that their grandparents already dealt with in Germany. They took advantage of a) knowing French and b) being self-employed to come to Montreal as investor-class immigrants. I know another family that left Florida for a job in Europe. As academics, their life is dependent on grants and universities, so moving was assisted by the powers that be. Given that ex-pat Americans retain voting rights, I would wonder why people who see their neighbourhoods declining, and have the financial means to do so, would stay. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/34 "2018-07-06T02:48:51Z")
This never did develop into a debate. Off to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/35 "2018-07-06T02:51:32Z")
> [@Rabbi\_Mohel\_Skinberg](#): > > What do you mean “leave”, OP…? 😕 > > For as far as this forum is concerned – in fact, as far as many, if not most dullard Amerimutts “think” \*(_term used more loosely than “president” is, when preceded by the number 45)_ – the U.S. is doin’ just dandy – Thanks! – and any allusions to the contrary are bunkum bordering on blasphemy! > > Just read for yourself: [Tomorrow Will Be Like Yesterday: The Hot-Hand Fallacy Defined](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=857488) > > 😃 This, however, is not opinion; it is threadshitting where one merely hurls insults without even addressing the OP. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/36 "2018-07-06T04:15:48Z")
Having options, I have thought about this a time or two over the last two years. I am probably staying put but should he be reelected in 2020 I would not rule out at least going to – another country that I already have papers for and maybe looking in from the outside until things look better. I wouldn’t denounce my citizenship here; just live as a dual citizen there. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/37 "2018-07-06T05:08:40Z")
As someone who lived in another country for almost 25 years total, most of my adult life to date, I can tell you it’s easier than you think. It doesn’t have to be political, it’s just as an American, you’ll live outside the country if you damned well please. You do not have to give up your citizenship, and you won’t lose your voting rights. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/38 "2018-07-06T10:32:38Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I don’t have dual citizenship and I was not hired by a multinational. I do have a small software business that I can run from anywhere. Georgia allows a stay of 360 days and in other places I stayed 90 as a normal tourist. Eventually I set up a Czech company and that allowed me to get residency. > > If you want to leave, it is doable, but it takes money and drive. We were in Georgia last year on vacation and took a food tour. Our tour leader’s wife was Polish, and decided she wanted to move to Georgia. Apparently at least at that time (~ 15 years ago) the way to get Georgian citizenship was to write a letter to the President and ask nicely. So she did. She is a freelance journalist and apparently does pretty well doing stories for international publications and living in a low-cost country. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/39 "2018-07-06T13:27:26Z")
I’m close to retirement so getting a job somewhere else isn’t that critical, and if I want to take my current job with me I can. I’m financially well off so I could probably bribe my way into lots of different countries, but my family and my wife’s family all live in the US so moving away wouldn’t be easy. The tipping point for me would be gathering up minorities, gays, hispanics, blacks or any other non-christian white people and putting them in ‘holding facilities’ or interment camps. Or maybe rounding up everyone who doesn’t like the way the country is going (dissenters) and locking them up. Also, I could see Trump and his cronies changing the law so he could stay in power for 4 terms (or indefinitely like the dictators he looks up to). That would also do it for me. I only live 100 miles from the Canadian border and could be there in a little over an hour. Adios amigos. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024/40 "2018-07-06T15:46:39Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > We were in Georgia last year on vacation and took a food tour. Our tour leader’s wife was Polish, and decided she wanted to move to Georgia. Apparently at least at that time (~ 15 years ago) the way to get Georgian citizenship was to write a letter to the President and ask nicely. So she did. She is a freelance journalist and apparently does pretty well doing stories for international publications and living in a low-cost country. For me its easier; I’m actually related to good percentages of their government and have the papers in my safe – call it the “ultimate bug-out kit”. When I hear “Georgia on my Mind” its actually a very different tune from the average Doper. 😉 Now Komi or more central-Siberia/Krasnoyarsk would take some paperwork but both of those are do-able as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-when-do-we-leave/817024.md?page=3)