# Ok who still buys what the Republicans are selling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738 "2010-10-01T16:23:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/1 "2010-10-01T16:23:04Z")
[http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/budgetcomparison.jpg.gif](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/the_pledge_to_america_in_one_g.html) If the Republicans make good on their “Pledge to America”, the deficit will go up in comparison to staying the course with the Democrats. Debate question: are the Republicans not hypocrites? Is this whole bash Obama thing based on a pack of lies, are we about to vote in more of the same? Where exactly is the deficit reduction in this plan? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/2 "2010-10-01T16:46:45Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/budgetcomparison.jpg.gif](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/the_pledge_to_america_in_one_g.html) > > If the Republicans make good on their “Pledge to America”, the deficit will go up in comparison to staying the course with the Democrats. > > Debate question: are the Republicans not hypocrites? Is this whole bash Obama thing based on a pack of lies, are we about to vote in more of the same? Where exactly is the deficit reduction in this plan? Yes they’re hypocrites. Everyone in congress is a huge hypocrite when it comes to spending. Even every day people who express concern about the deficit are hypocrites, although most are less hypocritical than our elected officials. There was an Economist article earlier this year exploring the huge gap in people’s willingness to cut spending and the effectiveness of cutting that spending. For instance, the most widely accepted spending cut was foreign aid, even though it amounts to less than 1% of the budget. But nobody was willing to cut anything that mattered. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/3 "2010-10-01T18:02:01Z")
Democrats spread the wealth to social programs and bigger government, and money to clean up after bad behavior. Republicans spend money on the military and government programs to attempt to stop bad behavior before it happens. Both flavors of senator spend taxpayer money on pet projects for their home district or lobbyists. The whole things becomes a money grab and a focus on showing off what you were able to get for your home district to get reelected. What we need is line item veto and balanced budget amendment, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/4 "2010-10-01T18:27:44Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Republicans spend money on . . . government programs to attempt to stop bad behavior before it happens. :dubious: No, that would be the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/5 "2010-10-01T18:42:35Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Where exactly is the deficit reduction in this plan? There isn’t one. I’ve already heard some trying to carve out “tax cut exceptions” to expanding the deficit. They don’t care about the deficit, it’s being used as a wedge issue and will be tossed aside once it’s achieved it’s goal in getting people elected. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/6 "2010-10-01T18:50:48Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Democrats spread the wealth to social programs and bigger government, and money to clean up after bad behavior. > > Republicans spend money on the military and **government programs to attempt to stop bad behavior before it happens**. What do you think social programs _are_? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/7 "2010-10-01T18:56:43Z")
They’re not “selling” anything. They are offering no programs, no details, nothing. They plan on winning on raw emotion, the vast malaise of economic trouble. The fact that they are, for a large part, responsible for that trouble is an irony that is lost on them. They are running on emotion and lies, and if they win, they will stand there and crow about how America approved of their “ideas”. Idea one: tax cuts! Idea two: more tax cuts Idea three: profit! Idea four: Cut taxes on the profit! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/8 "2010-10-01T19:26:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They’re not “selling” anything. Yeah they are. They came out with a new contract on America. It sucks, but they’re selling it. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/9 "2010-10-01T19:27:22Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > > [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > > > Where exactly is the deficit reduction in this plan? > > There isn’t one. I’ve already heard some trying to carve out “tax cut exceptions” to expanding the deficit. They don’t care about the deficit, it’s being used as a wedge issue and will be tossed aside once it’s achieved it’s goal in getting people elected. [QUOTE=elucidator] They’re not “selling” anything. They are offering no programs, no details, nothing. They plan on winning on raw emotion, the vast malaise of economic trouble. The fact that they are, for a large part, responsible for that trouble is an irony that is lost on them. They are running on emotion and lies, and if they win, they will stand there and crow about how America approved of their “ideas”. Idea one: tax cuts! Idea two: more tax cuts Idea three: profit! Idea four: Cut taxes on the profit!] [/QUOTE] Actually, for certain specific group of conservatives, there is a strategy behind the seemingly contradictory policy of using tax cuts to reduce the deficit. It’s part of the [“starve the beast”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) approach to reducing government. Basically, the hope is the tax cuts will eventually cause deficits that will be so huge, the only option would be to take a chain saw to the federal budget. Then, they can do what they _really_ want which is to kill all the government programs they despise (pretty much all of them outside of defense and law enforcement) and eliminate all the regulatory “shackles” on free enterprise (e.g., safety and environmental). For these people, the worst case scenario is something like what occurred during the Clinton Administration when there was economic growth and budget surpluses existing along with a tax increase and “socialistic” government programs. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/10 "2010-10-01T19:39:36Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@control-z](#): > > > > Democrats spread the wealth to social programs and bigger government, and money to clean up after bad behavior. > > > > Republicans spend money on the military and **government programs to attempt to stop bad behavior before it happens**. > > What do you think social programs _are_? Which ones? And I’m not saying that trying to prevent bad behavior is that effective either. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/11 "2010-10-01T19:41:22Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Democrats spread the wealth to social programs and bigger government, and money to clean up after bad behavior. > > Republicans spend money on the military and government programs to attempt to stop bad behavior before it happens. The last time the Republicans were in power they spent money on the $700,000,000,000 to $1,000,000,000,000 Medicare Part D social entitlement program. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/12 "2010-10-01T20:02:28Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > What do you think social programs _are_? > > Which ones? > > And I’m not saying that trying to prevent bad behavior is that effective either. Just as one example, unemployment. It saves people from losing their home in the time it takes them to find a job, thus preventing them from becoming homeless or a criminal to survive. Thought of another one: universal health care. It has been seriously argued on this board by conservative anti-UHC advocates that ERs are already forced to treat people and that’s all the UHC we need, as opposed to putting money toward making it possible for people to exercise preventative health care, which UHC would allow. Which one sounds like “cleaning up” and which one sounds like “attempting to stop something before it happens”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/13 "2010-10-01T21:05:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The fact that they are, for a large part, responsible for that trouble is an irony that is lost on them. You mean they’re selling Milk of Amnesia? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/14 "2010-10-01T21:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Ok who still buys what the Republicans are selling? Just a guess, mind, but I’d say the people who still buy what the Republicans are selling are…well, Republicans. By definition. Just like the folks who buy what the Democrats are peddling are, by definition, Democrats. Oh, I’m sure there are some folks on both sides who self identify as Independents or whatever, but if you ‘buy’ (a.k.a. vote) for the Dems or Pubs you must be, ipso facto, a Dem or Pub. QED and all that. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/15 "2010-10-02T00:30:24Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Actually, for certain specific group of conservatives, there is a strategy behind the seemingly contradictory policy of using tax cuts to reduce the deficit. It’s part of the [“starve the beast”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) approach to reducing government. Basically, the hope is the tax cuts will eventually cause deficits that will be so huge, the only option would be to take a chain saw to the federal budget. Then, they can do what they _really_ want which is to kill all the government programs they despise (pretty much all of them outside of defense and law enforcement) and eliminate all the regulatory “shackles” on free enterprise (e.g., safety and environmental). For these people, the worst case scenario is something like what occurred during the Clinton Administration when there was economic growth and budget surpluses existing along with a tax increase and “socialistic” government programs. Then what will they do when the country itself ceases to exist because of all the unrest that will ensue? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/16 "2010-10-02T00:33:22Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > [ > Then what will they do when the country itself ceases to exist because of all the unrest that will ensue? Say “oops”. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/17 "2010-10-02T01:42:09Z")
Ear marks are 3 percent of budget. If you are looking for the fiscal problems ,look elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/18 "2010-10-02T02:03:34Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > > [@NDP](#): > > > > Actually, for certain specific group of conservatives, there is a strategy behind the seemingly contradictory policy of using tax cuts to reduce the deficit. It’s part of the [“starve the beast”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) approach to reducing government. Basically, the hope is the tax cuts will eventually cause deficits that will be so huge, the only option would be to take a chain saw to the federal budget. Then, they can do what they _really_ want which is to kill all the government programs they despise (pretty much all of them outside of defense and law enforcement) and eliminate all the regulatory “shackles” on free enterprise (e.g., safety and environmental). For these people, the worst case scenario is something like what occurred during the Clinton Administration when there was economic growth and budget surpluses existing along with a tax increase and “socialistic” government programs. > > Then what will they do when the country itself ceases to exist because of all the unrest that will ensue? Presumably use the private militias they have built up (e.g., Blackwater) to defend their property. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/19 "2010-10-02T02:21:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > > > [ > > Then what will they do when the country itself ceases to exist because of all the unrest that will ensue? > > Say “oops”. Oh come on. Why even post if you’re not going to be serious? In reality, they would call for lower taxes on the richest former Americans and for looser regulations on anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738/20 "2010-10-02T04:42:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They’re not “selling” anything. They are offering no programs, no details, nothing. They plan on winning on raw emotion, the vast malaise of economic trouble. The fact that they are, for a large part, responsible for that trouble is an irony that is lost on them. They are running on emotion and lies, and if they win, they will stand there and crow about how America approved of their “ideas”. > > Idea one: tax cuts! > Idea two: more tax cuts > Idea three: profit! > Idea four: Cut taxes on the profit! You’ve got it wrong. I think it’s more like: Idea one: tax cuts! Idea two: more tax cuts Idea three: ??? Idea four: Profit!!! Idea five: Cut taxes on the profit! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-who-still-buys-what-the-republicans-are-selling/555738.md?page=2)