# OK, ZPG: Let's get a room. I'm paying. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557 "2016-08-21T20:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/241 "2016-08-23T19:32:56Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Consider this personality profile of ZPGZ: she’s never felt like she fit in with “normal” people, so she constructed a front to make her stand out from the others. This involved inventing her own culture that has no basis in context. She cherry-picked various elements from other cultures, or made up her own, and incorporated those concepts into an ever-growing mishmash of contradictions and fallacies. She now has an identity that’s vastly different from those around her, and can act offended and unfairly mistreated when people unintentionally step on her toes, because they have no idea what her boundaries are. She doesn’t really expect anybody to know them; she just makes them up as she goes along, just so she can put herself on a pedestal of perpetual martyrdom. > > Because of what she perceives as unjust rejection by men and women who are repulsed by her, she’s adopted this misanthropic attitude so she can shock them even more for daring to reject her. Her only logical basis is that this makes her a unique, and therefore interesting individual, much like [this guy who has sex with cars](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/edward-smith_n_4098886.html). Don’t try to make sense of it. Just nod your head and move on. I think this bears repeating because you’ve probably almost 100% nailed it. And because s/he is undoubtedly a troll. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/242 "2016-08-23T19:34:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And how did she punish you for growing up? She wanted total control of my life (and my brother and sister’s lives). We were only supposed to exist in order cater to her whims. My aunt, my grandmother, my father and many other relatives had to fight numerous battles with her over our safety and education. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/243 "2016-08-23T19:39:56Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Secondly, what does that even mean “couldn’t bear the trauma hearing the word guardian”?. That would have been the logical title for the relationship they had with you. They were not biologically related to you, but were your legal guardians who cared for you. That should be enough for anyone who cares about the child. Why is it necessary to create fake familial relationships? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/244 "2016-08-23T20:04:25Z")
I was adopted, and while I’ve never met her, I’d like to express my gratitude to my biological mother for not having me suctioned out, or doing the infamous “gypsy nose-pinch” that we’ve all heard so much about. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/245 "2016-08-23T20:12:02Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > You are a dangerous lunatic who is out of her goddamned mind. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I’m a person who values women as human beings, not carriers for babies. …but who does not value post-birth infants as human beings, apparently. > [@](#): > > Adults created all the worlds cultures and societies, not babies Oh, well, that’s a perfectly rational reason for that, then. :dubious: Now I’m curious to know, at what point in post-birth development does your worldview bestow the title of “human being” upon the object of your scrutiny? First 24 hours is out, obviously, but how many days, weeks, months, or years does the kid have to make it through before it is safe from the prospect of **ZPGZealot** being okay with its, ummm, disposal? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/246 "2016-08-23T20:16:16Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > And… we’ve reached the point where I’m now the online crazy. > > OK, I’m pulling the plug on this thing. No, maybe the sky is pink and people such as you who are not abhorred by murdering babies is to be celibrated, but thank you for showing us your colors. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/247 "2016-08-23T20:19:09Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I was adopted, and while I’ve never met her, I’d like to express my gratitude to my biological mother for not having me suctioned out, or doing the infamous “gypsy nose-pinch” that we’ve all heard so much about. Yeah, makes me feel kinda lucky, too. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/248 "2016-08-23T20:22:45Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > No, maybe the sky is pink and people such as you who are not abhorred by murdering babies is to be celibrated, but thank you for showing us your colors. Look, I didn’t say that I agree with any of this nuttiness. As far as I can tell, at this stage of the conversation: - \*\*ZPG \*\*is the flappiest flapdoodle who ever trolled her way through troll town. - Infanticide in ancient Greece and Rome is as batshit a practice as ever was invented. (BTW, those dudes were also into rampant misogyny, wanton violence, gladiatorial games, slavery, imperialism and animal abuse. I’m not cool with everything they got up to.) - I’ve read stuff by Peter Singer that made sense to me on other topics, but this one will be a hard sell, to put it mildly. I hope he has some damned good arguments. I’m just saying that other perspectives than mine exist. \*\*ZPG \*\*has lost me at this point, though. And thanks to everyone for the reality checks. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/249 "2016-08-23T20:31:39Z")
Too late for edit: That good enough for you? Or do you still want to accuse me of condoning baby-murdering? If so, bring cites. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/250 "2016-08-23T20:40:26Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > …but who does not value post-birth infants as human beings, apparently. > > Oh, well, that’s a perfectly rational reason for that, then. :dubious: > > Now I’m curious to know, at what point in post-birth development does your worldview bestow the title of “human being” upon the object of your scrutiny? First 24 hours is out, obviously, but how many days, weeks, months, or years does the kid have to make it through before it is safe from the prospect of **ZPGZealot** being okay with its, ummm, disposal? In cultures that openly practice infanticide it’s most frequently done immediately after birth, before any further resources have been wasted on the infant. I think that is very sound practice. In situations where a woman has been forced to give birth it becomes more problematic because she may not have easy access to the infant. In the end my answer is this: I give a traumatized woman forced to live as a human incubator for months a rather wide leeway on her subsequent behavior toward the source of all that pain. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/251 "2016-08-23T20:47:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > So we women should always rejoicefully consign ourselves to the fate of incubator slaves for the adoption industry, rather than resist by any means necessary? I am always reminded of Margaret Garner when people ask me questions like this. You probably think she was a callous murderer also, rather than a victim (survivor) of horrific circumstances. > [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Didn’t know who Garner was, so I learned something. Garner killed her daughter to save her from a lifetime of slavery. How is that the same thing at all? She equates adoption to non-kin with slavery. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/252 "2016-08-23T20:50:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > She wanted total control of my life (and my brother and sister’s lives). We were only supposed to exist in order cater to her whims. My aunt, my grandmother, my father and many other relatives had to fight numerous battles with her over our safety and education. Whether you’re playing at being controversial for the sake of attention or whether you truly believe the delusional ideas you’re peddling, I’m sure you can thank your mother for some of the crazy, but the bulk of it is all you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/253 "2016-08-23T20:50:57Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > the best I can say for this thread is that it’s given the unfortunate opportunity to see into a very sick mind. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I think that every time I encounter an adopter. How good for your peace of mind, then, that your preference that adopters be required to announce their status to all and sundry is NOT the law of the land. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/254 "2016-08-23T21:04:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Perhaps worth noting that the idea of justifying infanticide is not as far out as many posters seem to be assuming. > > [Here’s an example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer#Abortion.2C_euthanasia.2C_and_infanticide) of a guy who justifies it in some circumstances and is a not a societal pariah. To the contrary, he’s celebrated as a “moral philosopher”. He is a professor of bioethics at Princeton University, and a Laureate Professor at the University of Melbourne, named Australian Humanist of the Year by the Council of Australian Humanist Societies, and voted one of Australia’s ten most influential public intellectuals. In 2012, he was named a _Companion of the Order of Australia_ for his services to philosophy and bioethics. (I’m frankly not sure what all these things mean or represent, but on the whole you get the impression that he’s highly thought of by a lot of people.) Please don’t give us reading assignments. If you know of something that the person your link is about has said or written that is germane to the subject at hand, feel free to spill it. Providing the link for contextual evaluation is appropriate, and appreciated, but the way you dropped it into the thread is neither. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/255 "2016-08-23T21:07:27Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > If you ever find yourself giving ZPG the benefit of the doubt because you’re figuring she couldn’t possibly mean what it sounds like and you must be misinterpreting…don’t bother; you’re not. I must remember this!! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/256 "2016-08-23T21:14:52Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > If you ever find yourself giving ZPG the benefit of the doubt because you’re figuring she couldn’t possibly mean what it sounds like and you must be misinterpreting…don’t bother; you’re not. You know what? I’m mildly pissed off at this point (not at you in particular, though, just in general). So I’ll just say what is on my mind: Do you know what I’ve enjoyed in this thread? **ZPG** ’s posts, and trying to understand her perspective. Sometimes a fruit loop is just a fruit loop, but how the fuck am I supposed to know without investigating the matter? Also, it might be a fascinating and interesting fruit loop. I can look at things that that I don’t understand or agree with, and try to see the other side. I don’t think that’s a particularly crazy way of going about things. Some posters in this thread have, at times, displayed the same attitude. But as the for the rest of you, pelting tomatoes? How about you knock it off with that shit? It’s fucking distracting. Some of us are trying to have a conversation here. And what the hell are trying to achieve? You’re sure not fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/257 "2016-08-23T21:15:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Now I’m curious to know, at what point in post-birth development does your worldview bestow the title of “human being” upon the object of your scrutiny? First 24 hours is out, obviously, but how many days, weeks, months, or years does the kid have to make it through before it is safe from the prospect of **ZPGZealot** being okay with its, ummm, disposal? > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In cultures that openly practice infanticide it’s most frequently done immediately after birth, before any further resources have been wasted on the infant. I think that is very sound practice. In situations where a woman has been forced to give birth it becomes more problematic because she may not have easy access to the infant. In the end my answer is this: I give a traumatized woman forced to live as a human incubator for months a rather wide leeway on her subsequent behavior toward the source of all that pain. Thank you so much for yet another non-answer. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/258 "2016-08-23T21:16:08Z")
If the baby is not viable without coercing adults to care for it why isn’t infanticide as moral as a late term abortion? It is an interesting concept. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/259 "2016-08-23T21:21:23Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > You know what? I’m mildly pissed off at this point (not at you in particular, though, just in general). So I’ll just say what is on my mind: > > Do you know what I’ve enjoyed in this thread? **ZPG** ’s posts, and trying to understand her perspective. Sometimes a fruit loop is just a fruit loop, but how the fuck am I supposed to know without investigating the matter? \*The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. But that’s the way to bet. – some smart guy\* ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/260 "2016-08-23T21:26:22Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > How about you knock it off with that shit? It’s fucking distracting. Some of us are trying to have a conversation here. And what the hell are trying to achieve? You’re sure not fighting ignorance. How about you not be a retard and don’t put threads where you want to “have a conversation” and “fight ignorance” in The Pit. Retard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557.md?page=14)