# OK, ZPG: Let's get a room. I'm paying. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557 "2016-08-21T20:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/361 "2016-08-24T19:42:26Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Hang on just one goddamned second here. Did you read the Peter Singer stuff we posted about earlier, and then just went right ahead and incorporated that into your so-called worldview? Now you seem to be arguing from a position that infants don’t have personhood. I don’t recall seeing you do that \*before \*we talked about Singer upthread. Earlier, it was about saving children from slavery, and you seemed to care about those children. Also, you were calling them “children”, not “things”. Note the difference between this: > > and this: > > Quite the tonal shift there, dontcha think? Sometimes I call children things because it’s easier than he and she or it constructions… It’s just the way I speak. I sometimes refer to my nieces and nephews as my little monsters, but they know I love them. Actually, my teenage nephews enjoy being referred to as my brother’s fuck trophies. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/362 "2016-08-24T19:56:37Z")
Well, I guess the troll-or-not question has been settled. So this wasn’t a total waste of time. Basic troll it is, then. Earlier on, you were at least funny. And more creative. What happened? Did you get lazy? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/363 "2016-08-24T20:17:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > So, **ZPG** , there’s a Dopefest in Austin next month. Can we count on you? That’s right at the height of baby-killings season ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/364 "2016-08-24T20:38:45Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Well, I guess the troll-or-not question has been settled. So this wasn’t a total waste of time. Basic troll it is, then. “Troll” yes, “Basic” no. In my opinion, **ZPG** is going down as one of the greatest, despicable, trolls that ever trolled! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/365 "2016-08-24T21:43:18Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually, I consider it very tragic when women lose dearly loved children and I’ve seen a lot of that also. What I don’t consider tragic are women or men being relieved of potential children they vehemently hate. That’s pretty clearly not true, in the cases where the form that relief takes is removal of the child and placement in a loving family who don’t have the “right” DNA… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/366 "2016-08-24T21:58:13Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > At the beginning of the Fall Semester with a couple of thousand freshman converging on the campus and a new group of student workers to train not a chance. Besides you would probably get mad when I refused to shake your hands. How about a hug? Chest to chest but with no sexual thoughts on the mind. Purely platonic? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/367 "2016-08-24T23:55:27Z")
Hang on. If this baby business was, like, a known thing already, before this thread, how come it’s the handshaking that’s becoming a meme? How come no one adds “oh, yeah, and there’s the business with the baby killing”? That might have clued me in before I stepped into this pile of doodoo. Could we put up a warning about this somewhere now, for future reference? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/368 "2016-08-25T00:07:29Z")
Was the baby thing known? I didn’t know. I actually get a queasy now when I see her name. Wish I didn’t know, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/369 "2016-08-25T00:14:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > …Actually, my teenage nephews enjoy being referred to as my brother’s fuck trophies. I take it you’re rehearsing your stand-up. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/370 "2016-08-25T00:29:14Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Hang on. If this baby business was, like, a known thing already, before this thread, how come it’s the handshaking that’s becoming a meme? How come no one adds “oh, yeah, and there’s the business with the baby killing”? This is an extremely good question, one I have often asked myself. I’ve come up with two plausible, not necessarily mutually exclusive answers: 1. Many people take hypothetical accusations of rapeyness more personally than they take hypothetical infanticide. 2. It’s harder to get away with dead baby jokes in MPSIMS. FWIW I’ve always thought the handshake thing was quite overblown, frequently torn out of context, and also dragged all over this board apropos of nothing. And it really is a poor representation of the level of dysfunction we’re talking about here. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/371 "2016-08-25T00:30:44Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Was the baby thing known? I didn’t know. I actually get a queasy now when I see her name. Wish I didn’t know, to be honest. Yeah, it was known. I remember it coming up several years ago and that’s kind of a hard thing to forget (what I didn’t know is that the primary motive for the infanticide was to compassionately save the baby from the horror of being adopted by a loving family.) But if you weren’t around then or missed those threads I could see how you would think this was merely much ado about handshakes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/372 "2016-08-25T00:37:04Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Yeah, it was known. I remember it coming up several years ago and that’s kind of a hard thing to forget (what I didn’t know is that the primary motive for the infanticide was to compassionately save the baby from the horror of being adopted by a loving family.) She’s also okay with it, if my memory serves, so that men don’t have to pay child support. I know that she is okay with killing pregnant women for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/373 "2016-08-25T01:02:29Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > She’s either badly damaged or a troll. But I’d prefer we never go down the road of thinking that someone horrible is not human. The brain behind the persona, fictional or not, is a real person. A contemptible human, but human. Who knows? I’ve had to deal with some really fucked up humans in my life and it’s impossible to distinguish them from trolls. She’s now on my ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/374 "2016-08-25T01:08:13Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Yeah, it was known. I remember it coming up several years ago and that’s kind of a hard thing to forget (what I didn’t know is that the primary motive for the infanticide was to compassionately save the baby from the horror of being adopted by a loving family.) But if you weren’t around then or missed those threads I could see how you would think this was merely much ado about handshakes. Oh no. I knew there was a whole bucket of crazy in there. I just didn’t know it came with infanticide. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > She’s also okay with it, if my memory serves, so that men don’t have to pay child support. I know that she is okay with killing pregnant women for that reason. This is seriously fucked up. Commitment-to-the-nuthouse-level fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/375 "2016-08-25T01:33:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > This is an extremely good question, one I have often asked myself. I’ve come up with two plausible, not necessarily mutually exclusive answers: > > 1. Many people take hypothetical accusations of rapeyness more personally than they take hypothetical infanticide. > > 2. It’s harder to get away with dead baby jokes in MPSIMS. > > FWIW I’ve always thought the handshake thing was quite overblown, frequently torn out of context, and also dragged all over this board apropos of nothing. And it really is a poor representation of the level of dysfunction we’re talking about here. It’s easy to joke about the whole handshake thing. It’s a little harder to crack wise about infanticide. Sorta sucks the fun right out of the room. Plus, you don’t want to believe it. You don’t want to believe people can be THAT fucking horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/376 "2016-08-25T01:53:20Z")
**jsgoddess** , not to bug you again, but do you have a cite for the killing of pregnant women? I have zero doubt at this point that such a cite exists. The troll is already on record upthread advising that the father should kill the child in the child support scenario. My search-fu isn’t scoring me any direct hits as of yet on the woman, though. I was trying to ask the troll herself about this earlier, but I couldn’t get a straigh-up answer. However, I realize now that I didn’t ask a sufficiently straight-up question. And, since she’s still here, and not nearly as coy about these things as I for some reason imagined… Hey! Trolly McTrollface! Yes, that means you, **ZPG**! Scenario time: I’ve knocked up a woman and will be on the hook for child support. Killing only the child is off the table, for whatever reason. Let’s say the expectant mother is about to go into hiding, since she heard that you were in town, and after that I won’t be able to find her or the child. However, she won’t be doing it for the next couple of days. I ask your advice. Which of the following options should I choose? 1. Pay the child support. 2. Kill the pregnant woman. And don’t go beating around the bush about the ideal society where blah blah should be allowed on this. Well, do that too, if you absolutely have to. But straight up answer first, please. It’s a very simple question. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/377 "2016-08-25T03:15:31Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > It’s easy to joke about the whole handshake thing. > It’s a little harder to crack wise about infanticide. Sorta sucks the fun right out of the room. > > Plus, you don’t want to believe it. You don’t want to believe people can be THAT fucking horrible. It’s true. And if people made infanticide jokes, it would immediately derail the thread, and everyone who had never heard it before would be like, ''Wait, what?" Yeah, I suppose it makes more sense to joke about handshakes. It annoys me when it comes up in threads for no other reason than to poke fun, but the alternative would be way worse, so I shall thank my lucky stars. I’m terrible at perceiving when people are trolls vs. sincere. It’s not her beliefs that I find so implausible, it’s her apparent perception that everyone other than Dopers thinks this is all perfectly normal and agrees with her 100%, and that we are the weird ones. That’s the part that I really find hard to believe. That these beliefs have somehow been tested among the general population and there has been zero pushback seems not only implausible, but impossible. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/378 "2016-08-25T03:27:56Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > **jsgoddess** , not to bug you again, but do you have a cite for the killing of pregnant women? I have zero doubt at this point that such a cite exists. The troll is already on record upthread advising that the father should kill the child in the child support scenario. My search-fu isn’t scoring me any direct hits as of yet on the woman, though. > **[Is Asking for Child Support Always the Best Thing To Do?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13255741)** > > So, do I, but I think it’s only fair that a man should have the option if he doesn’t want to be a father to sign away his parental rights within a reasonable amount of time after being informed of the pregnancy or childbirth and have all ties severed... > [@](#): > > Would I have voted not guilty at the trail if your father had shot your mother? No, but there are plenty of circumstances when I would gladly nullify a jury for a man who kills his pregnant gold-digger or baby rabid sex partner rather than submit to 18 years of financial rape. To me that’s no different than shooting a robber breaking into your house or shooting a human trafficker trying to enslave you. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13273352#post13273352](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13273352#post13273352) > [@](#): > > Forcing a woman to touch your hand is a physical act in the continuum of violence against woman just like rape. Shooting a pregnant woman or a child to avoid paying child support may in some circumstances be the moral equivalency of shooting a burgular breaking into your home or a mugger that tries to rob you on the street. Whether or not it’s murder, well that depends on whether or not you consider it moral to defend property. Some of people do, especially in circumstances were property is shared among family members and the loss of one members property can effect the lives of many. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/379 "2016-08-25T03:29:08Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m terrible at perceiving when people are trolls vs. sincere. It’s not her beliefs that I find so implausible, it’s her apparent perception that everyone other than Dopers thinks this is all perfectly normal and agrees with her 100%, and that we are the weird ones. That’s the part that I really find hard to believe. That these beliefs have somehow been tested among the general population and there has been zero pushback seems not only implausible, but impossible. In some thread she talked about how she should have been stabbing people who offered her handshakes. She’s a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/380 "2016-08-25T04:13:57Z")
Holy fucksticks. These views aren’t even logically consistent with one another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557.md?page=20)