# OK, ZPG: Let's get a room. I'm paying. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557 "2016-08-21T20:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/521 "2016-09-27T00:05:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yup. > > I’ve had dudes give me bad handshakes. I even had a dude give me a handshake that made me want to have him arrested (like seriously, I was 18, he used his middle finger to caress my palm, This happened to me several times, when I was young (between 16 and early 20s). I assumed it was a relatively common way for gays to discreetly communicate a sexual interest (“interested in a good fuck?”, without having to say it overtly and without anybody around noticing). Possibly older homosexual posters could confirm (or not). I wasn’t creeped out, in any case, and didn’t think it should have gotten anybody arrested. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Holy fucksticks. These views aren’t even logically consistent with one another. I don’t think they’re really inconsistent, either. I could perfectly conceive of an alternate reality where : -Touching someone of the opposite sex who isn’t a relative or such is a big no-no, loaded with obvious sexual undertones, and where a man touching the shoulder of a female stranger is as likely to have acted innocently as a guy fondling your breasts is in our society. -Blood and cultural ties are considered so obviously fundamental and/or sacred that pretending to be the parent of a child when you’re not his actual biological parents would seem outrageous wrt his extended family/tribe, and completely delusional, even if you raised him. -Infanticide of newborns is as acceptable as late term abortion for us (or maybe simply abortion), and even though not particularly pleasant, perceived as a necessary evil because obviously nobody can be morally obligated to dedicate his ressources and energy for a couple decade to raising a children they don’t want. And I’m not talking about some horrible dystopia, but about a society that would be otherwise egalitarian, democratic, enlightened, etc… Basically, exactly the same as ours except for these three points. If you were in this ZPGZealotland, you would have troubles arguing that touching a woman in this way is perfectly fine but touching her in that way is an assault, that it makes sense to call you the “mother” of a kid you didn’t give birth to, or that killing a fetus unable to live by itself that you don’t want to carry is OK, but killing a baby unable to live by itself that you don’t want to raise is the action of a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/522 "2016-09-27T00:56:05Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I could perfectly conceive of an alternate reality where : > > -Touching someone of the opposite sex who isn’t a relative or such is a big no-no, loaded with obvious sexual undertones, and where a man touching the shoulder of a female stranger is as likely to have acted innocently as a guy fondling your breasts is in our society. > > -Blood and cultural ties are considered so obviously fundamental and/or sacred that pretending to be the parent of a child when you’re not his actual biological parents would seem outrageous wrt his extended family/tribe, and completely delusional, even if you raised him. > > -Infanticide of newborns is as acceptable as late term abortion for us (or maybe simply abortion), and even though not particularly pleasant, perceived as a necessary evil because obviously nobody can be morally obligated to dedicate his ressources and energy for a couple decade to raising a children they don’t want. > And I’m not talking about some horrible dystopia, but about a society that would be otherwise egalitarian, democratic, enlightened, etc… The last point is the only one that is conceivable to me. I could conceive of _all_ touching between anyone not a toddler or younger being sexualized, but having different approaches for different genders is not egalitarian. I could see people _linguistically_ drawing the line at _calling_ yourself a parent, after all, some otherwise enlightened people a decade ago quibbled that same-sex couples should have the same rights as opposite-sex couples as long as you didn’t _call_ it marriage. But to not allow any sort of parental figure for a child is not enlightened. But on the third point, it isn’t really clear at which point a baby’s consciousness “attaches”, so it is neither more moral nor less moral to end its life just before or just after birth. I mean, it’s fairly obvious that anyone who has a problem with abortion at _all_ times in the pregnancy should _also_ be an animal-rights activist vegan because an embryo is far less sentient than a cow, but it gets increasingly murky afterward. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557/523 "2016-09-27T01:51:46Z")
People, lets stop shaking the hoove of this dead horse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ok-zpg-lets-get-a-room-im-paying/763557.md?page=26)