# Okay Bricker, You've Made Up My Mind... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150 "2008-09-05T08:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/21 "2008-09-05T16:56:09Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > Oh, screw you, **Sampiro**. You were never religious in your heart. What a disingenous liar. I can’t believe I ever bought into that thread of yours in which you “claim” you were looking for answers and were genuinely curious about people’s beliefs. You were just trolling. This is the first thing today that’s made me actually laugh out loud. Well played. 🆒 > [@](#): > > Eh, this is getting silly. It was silly from post one of the original thread. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/22 "2008-09-05T17:12:15Z")
Whatever, **FriarTed**. [The ADL disagrees with your assessment.](http://www.adl.org/special_reports/jews4jesus/jews4jesus.asp) > [@](#): > > Not surprisingly, many Jews find the tactics and beliefs of Jews for Jesus offensive, and numerous Jewish leaders have condemned the group. Christians of many denominations have also voiced their disapproval of the group’s theology and tactics. > > The Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, an umbrella organization that includes Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and Presbyterian church groups, has condemned Jews for Jesus as promoting activities “harmful to the spirit of interreligious respect and tolerance.” The conference also denounces the group’s “deceptive proselytizing efforts,” adding that when they are practiced on “vulnerable populations” such as the young or the elderly, these efforts are “tantamount to coerced conversions.” > > The Board of Governors of The Long Island Council of Churches voiced similar sentiments in a statement that “noted with alarm” the “subterfuge and dishonesty” inherent in the “mixing [of] religious symbols in ways which distort their essential meaning,” and named Jews for Jesus as one of the three groups about whom such behavior was alleged. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/23 "2008-09-05T17:15:50Z")
Sampiro you magnificent son of a bitch! Not only did I like the smack down of Bricker, but I liked it even more when I realized I had been whooshed. FWIW I used to be a Hillary supporter, and I’m voting for Obama despite his more psycho supporters. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/24 "2008-09-05T17:34:16Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Whatever, **FriarTed**. > [The ADL disagrees with your assessment.](http://www.adl.org/special_reports/jews4jesus/jews4jesus.asp) So religious & secular Jews & liberal Christians don’t like a Jesus-believing Jewish evangelical group. Big deal. That still doesn’t make the word “anti-semitic” mean what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/25 "2008-09-05T17:51:52Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > So for six pages people are fighting with Cartman? Okay, that’s it. We can shut down the boards now: the perfect post has been achieved. Nobody thought it would happen, but there it is. And it’s all downhill from here now. Thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/26 "2008-09-05T17:59:44Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Okay, that’s it. We can shut down the boards now: the perfect post has been achieved. Nobody thought it would happen, but there it is. And it’s all downhill from here now. Thanks a lot. Shut up, you fucking troll. OK, _now_ we can close down. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/27 "2008-09-05T18:09:41Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > So for six pages people are fighting with Cartman? Well, you have to respect his authori-tah. Gloating about a wished-for election victory, as if the Republicans were going to win the Super Bowl or something, is Serious Business. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/28 "2008-09-05T18:26:34Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Whatever, **FriarTed**. > [The ADL disagrees with your assessment.](http://www.adl.org/special_reports/jews4jesus/jews4jesus.asp) Btw, I just finished reading the ADL report & even it doesn’t call JFJ or those Christians who support it “anti-Semitic”. Even if it did, that wouldn’t make any more true than if I called the ADL “anti-Christian”. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/29 "2008-09-05T18:35:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Shut up, you fucking troll. That would be: Shut the fuck up, you fucking troll. NOW we can shut 'er down… **Sleeps With Butterflies,** that was fucking marvellous! You winz teh intarnetz! W00t! :D:cool:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/30 "2008-09-05T19:25:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Shut up, you fucking troll. Fail. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/31 "2008-09-05T20:42:40Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Fail. Of course it’s fail. It’s **Shodan**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/32 "2008-09-05T21:10:42Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Of course it’s fail. It’s **Shodan**. See, now I read this post as the guy who says: “It’s not TV. It’s HBO.” And damn you, **Sleeping With Butterflies** , for giving me a mental picture of Bricker (well, what I imagine he’d look like) singing Come Sail Away. Thanks for the sour persimmons, cousin! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/33 "2008-09-05T21:34:29Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > JFJ is made of Jews. JEWS FOR JESUS. Bullshit. You are either ignorant or lying. It was founded, and is run and informed by the ideals of evangelical Christians. It seems rather simple to figure out that evangelical Christians are _not_ Jews. The scumfuck group’s founder, “Moishe Rosen”, is actually named Martin Meyer Rosen. Wonder why he changed his name, eh? He also went to Northeastern Bible College and became a _Christian missionary_. He was ordained as a _Baptist Minister_. He earned a \* Doctor of Divinity Degree from Western Conservative Baptist Seminary\*. Their membership is, likewise, largely made up of _evangelical Christians_, as their group is dedicated to spreading the _gospel_ of _Jesus Christ_. Judaism is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, as we do not believe in a dualistic, multiplicative or triune God. “Hear oh Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.” Not “…the Lord is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.” You either need to do your research before you make such absurd claims as calling evangelical Christians, or former Jews who converted to Christianity “Jews”. Or you need to not bullshit when people can catch you. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/34 "2008-09-05T21:38:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You are either ignorant or lying. Why choose? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/35 "2008-09-05T21:43:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Bullshit. > Judaism is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, as we do not believe in a dualistic, multiplicative or triune God. “Hear oh Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.” Not “…the Lord is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.” And Christians also believe that there is only one God. Just because you do not understand the concept of the Trinity doesn’t mean you should slander it. If this isn’t done out of ignorance, it is insulting. Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing people slandering Christianity by misinforming people that it worships three Gods. It does not. And no, the concept is not logical, so don’t expect it to be. This mistake, and I hope it is a mistake, would be akin to saying that the God of Abraham, Yahweh and the God of Moses is polytheistic. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/36 "2008-09-05T21:52:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Was it Lenny Bruce? “Many people these days are leaving the Church and turning to Christianity”? [off-track]The quote by Bruce was > [@](#): > > Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God. [/off-track] He didn’t single out Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/37 "2008-09-05T21:54:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And Christians also believe that there is only one God. Just because you do not understand the concept of the Trinity doesn’t mean you should slander it. If this isn’t done out of ignorance, it is insulting. Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing people slandering Christianity by misinforming people that it worships three Gods. It does not. And no, the concept is not logical, so don’t expect it to be. This mistake, and I hope it is a mistake, would be akin to saying that the God of Abraham, Yahweh and the God of Moses is polytheistic. No person not of your religion is required to pretend that the logical inconsistencies of your religion are actually “mysteries”. The Christian position is that God is triune. No one who is not Christian is required to pretend that makes sense in some sort of mystic way. **FinnAgain** is Jewish. He is under no obligation to pat you on the head and say “There, there…if you say so”, especially when discussing an organization that is basically poaching his people away. Jews For Jesus is a Christian Evangelical organization devoted to converting Jews away from Judaism. Pretending that it’s some sort of “other kind of Jews” is disingenuous and, frankly, deceptive. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/38 "2008-09-06T00:14:50Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And Christians also believe that there is only one God. Not in the same way as Jews believe that there is one God. Jews do not believe in, nor accept any sort of ‘division’. God is God, singular and undivided. This is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of God being ‘divided’ ‘contained’ ‘represented by’ or however else you slice it, as The Trinity. You can’t pretend that Judaism and Christianity are compatible on theological terms, they’re not. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Just because you do not understand the concept of the Trinity doesn’t mean you should slander it. Well, since this is in print, it’d be libel… But no, I’m not libeling Trinitarian doctrine, simply pointing out that it is mutually incompatible with Judaism. Believe whatever you like, but don’t pretend that Jewish and Christian theologies are in any way, shape or form, compatible on the major points. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This mistake, and I hope it is a mistake, would be akin to saying that the God of Abraham, Yahweh and the God of Moses is polytheistic. “Yahweh” (Adonai) _is_ the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Moses too. “Yahweh” is the ‘holy unspeakable name of God’. Yod, heh, vav, hey, incorrectly transliterated as “yahway” or “jehovah”, depending on who did the muddling. And it was never a triune God. Christianity does believe that there is God, that Jesus was (is) His Only Son, and that there is a “Holy Ghost” (I will admit freely I have no idea what the heck that is). The point, however, is that Jews do not believe that there is or can exist any division. God can no more have a One and Only Son than He can have a One and Only Cousin, at least in Jewish thelogy. Christianity can have a doctrine of a triune God, and that’s fine. But Judaism doesn’t and can’t be compatible with such a doctrine. Evangelical Christians, especially ordained Baptist ministers and their evangelical Christian organizations who call themselves “Jews” in order to convert Jews to Christianity, are dishonest and deceptive missionary Christians, not Jews who just see things a bit differently. Jews for Jesus aren’t Jews any more than the trendy Hollywood brand “Kaballah” is actually ancient Jewish mysticism. > [@jayjay](#): > > FinnAgain is Jewish. He is under no obligation to pat you on the head and say “There, there…if you say so”, especially when discussing an organization that is basically poaching his people away. Jews For Jesus is a Christian Evangelical organization devoted to converting Jews away from Judaism. Pretending that it’s some sort of “other kind of Jews” is disingenuous and, frankly, deceptive. (sorry, haven’t figured out the boards’ new quoting feature). But yeah, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. I’m not interested, or qualified, to ‘critique’ Christian theology on its own terms. My only point is that the theological systems are neither interchangeable nor fundamentally compatible. Whether The Trinity represents a ‘real’ division or an illusory division or a magical division or a divine or a fnordian division or whatever, it’s incompatible with a theological system which allows absolutely no division, at all, in its God. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/39 "2008-09-06T00:58:22Z")
Isn’t the whole Jews for Jesus thing because of something in the book of revelations–that the Jews must be converted or some such before the Rapture (or whatever–I didn’t pay much attention to any of it, since it sounded to me much like my college roommate’s 'shroom trips). Isn’t the converting of the Jews a huge deal to evangelicals (or do I mean fundamentalists? or both? I can tell you that mainstream Prostestants couldn’t care less about converting the Jews). ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150/40 "2008-09-06T00:59:30Z")
Judaism does have the concept of different aspects of God – for instance, there is the Sabbath Bride. The issue is that in Judaism, the aspects are due to our perceptions of God, not due to any actual subdivisions of God. And speaking of the Sabbath, we might have to wait a day or so to get any fuller explanation from the more observant members… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-bricker-youve-made-up-my-mind/462150.md?page=3)