# Okay, cop defenders, here's one for you (attempt to frame DUI driver) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002 "2009-08-01T21:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/1 "2009-08-01T21:48:53Z")
There are a few members of this forum who defend cops no matter what, (and a few who attack no matter what) so [here’s a test of just how dedicated you all are](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32238565/ns/local_news-miami_fl/) to defense: > [@](#): > > The disturbing video shows Alexandra Torrensvilas, 23, handcuffed in the back of the squad car as the officers get their stories straight after Officer Francisco, an 11-year veteran, crashed into the back of Torrensvilas’ vehicle. > > When Officer Pressley arrives and questions Torrensvilas, she tells him that she has been drinking. The 21-year veteran officer seized the opportunity and arrests her for DUI, and then the cops begin to brainstorm believable excuses for the accident. The charges against the driver have been dropped and five employees suspended. For some reason, others seem to be linking to an MSNBC video, but it’s not connected to the MSNBC site, so [here](http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/cops_frame_woman_for_routine_a.php) is some commentary plus (part of?) the video. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/2 "2009-08-01T22:02:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The charges against the driver have been dropped and five employees suspended. The cops should be axed and charged with whatever will appropriately stick (could this be considered obstruction?), but I don’t believe the driver’s charges should be dropped. That is, assuming we’re talking about the DUI charge, and if she was in fact over the legal limit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/3 "2009-08-01T22:03:03Z")
inb4 “all the facts” and blame the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/4 "2009-08-01T22:04:02Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > The cops should be axed and charged with whatever will appropriately stick (could this be considered obstruction?), but I don’t believe the driver’s charges should be dropped. That is, assuming we’re talking about the DUI charge, and if she was in fact over the legal limit. They conspired to frame her for a crime, and any evidence they gathered is thus tainted. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/5 "2009-08-01T22:27:40Z")
Please to be linking to some posts by “a few members of this forum who defend cops no matter what.” Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/6 "2009-08-01T22:45:16Z")
That was in Florida? What a surprise. It’s crap like this that makes me doubt the word of just about every cop. I’ve just seen too much of this, and been on the receiving end a couple of times, to trust any cops out of the box. I’m sure that there are good, straight cops out there, and I know that it is a tough, thankless job. I just fear that the good ones are in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/7 "2009-08-01T22:54:04Z")
Without investing significant research into this, I just want to clarify a few points. First, the “framed,” driver here was, in fact, DUI, correct? Second, how were the police conspiring to increase her culpability in the accident here? Rather, aren’t they just trying to come up with some sort of excuse for their own dumbassery/inattentiveness/following too close? Still, I agree this is reprehensible and unprofessional conduct, but it isn’t at all clear to me that they’re trying to frame her for something she didn’t do: DUI. Again, obviously, they shouldn’t be lying on police reports, but perhaps better, more conclusive reporting can clarify these points. ---
**Author:** ![dbuzman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@dbuzman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dbuzman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/8 "2009-08-01T22:54:05Z")
Not only do they try to come up with some excuse for the accident, they do this in front of a dashboard camera. If nothing else they need to be fired for being morons. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/9 "2009-08-01T23:10:32Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Without investing significant research into this, I just want to clarify a few points. First, the “framed,” driver here was, in fact, DUI, correct? Second, how were the police conspiring to increase her culpability in the accident here? Rather, aren’t they just trying to come up with some sort of excuse for their own dumbassery/inattentiveness/following too close? > > Still, I agree this is reprehensible and unprofessional conduct, but it isn’t at all clear to me that they’re trying to frame her for something she didn’t do: DUI. Again, obviously, they shouldn’t be lying on police reports, but perhaps better, more conclusive reporting can clarify these points. According to [this article](http://cbs4.com/local/hollywood.police.dui.2.1109194.html): > [@](#): > > Meltzer points to audio from their patrol car’s dash cam in which the officers were heard discussing how to change the report. On the dash came tape, Pressley is heard to say that he had a way to shift the blame away from Francisco. > > In the report on the accident Pressley wrote that a large cat, which had been sitting on Torrensvilas’s lap, distracted her and caused her to veer into the officer’s lane and brake suddenly; hence there was no way to avoid the crash. So, what actually happened was that the officer was traveling behind the woman, and in the same lane as her. He was apparently driving inattentively, and rear-ended her as a result. The report, instead of making the cop liable for rear-ending the motorist, fabricated a scenario whereby she swerved suddenly in front of the cop and jammed on her brakes, making it impossible for him to stop in time. The existence of the cat was a complete fabrication. From all reports i’ve read, the woman was clearly over the limit, and deserved a DUI. But she also was not responsible for the accident, in the sense that she never swerved out of her lane. The cop rear-ending her was the cop’s fault, and he and the other officers tried to cover that up by lying about the actions of her and her car. As [this opinion piece](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/todaysbuzz/friday/sfl-hollywood-police-cover-up-buzz-brochu-m073109,0,2460841.story) notes, these cops are not only corrupt, they also > [@](#): > > missed the chance to take a drunk off the streets. Torrensvilas – sitting cluelessly in the back of the patrol car unaware of the depravity going on around her – really did seem to be hammered, and probably deserved a DUI. But because these cops so viciously wrecked her civil rights, and broke any number of laws and standards of integrity befitting the badge, prosecutors had no choice but to drop the charges against her. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/10 "2009-08-02T00:03:35Z")
Here’s the thing, as a “cop defender” I’m typically defending the police when leftists and general anti-government whackos jump into a situation before any real fact finding has occurred. I’ve always been of the opinion that 24-72 hours after some sort of cop “event” has hit the news channels is still at least several weeks away from genuine fact finding. In this scenario the police officer’s misconduct has already been substantiated to enough of a degree that their commander has suspended them. That means we can all assume there is a good likelihood they behaved in a manner that goes against their employer’s guidelines for being police officers and based on the video evidence we can most likely assume they broke the law. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/11 "2009-08-02T00:07:54Z")
Seemed to be hammered…Not proof. They should have breathalyzed her. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/12 "2009-08-02T00:10:27Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > In this scenario the police officer’s misconduct has already been substantiated to enough of a degree that their commander has suspended them. That means we can all assume there is a good likelihood they behaved in a manner that goes against their employer’s guidelines for being police officers and based on the video evidence we can most likely assume they broke the law. I’m not so sure i’d agree with your first reason. If the question is one of police misconduct, why is it reasonable to assume that two officers have acted inappropriately on the word of another police officer? That is to say, if we’re talking innocent until suggested guilty, and the word of a police officer is enough to suggest guilt, then logically it should be enough to suggest innocence, too, and we have no reason to believe one over the other. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/13 "2009-08-02T00:22:22Z")
Hang all of them as an example to others! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/14 "2009-08-02T00:35:13Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > First, the “framed,” driver here was, in fact, DUI, correct? She seemed to be “walking the line” quite well to me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/15 "2009-08-02T00:38:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please to be linking to some posts by “a few members of this forum who defend cops no matter what.” Thanks. :rolleyes: Yeah, you’re right, the’re not any… ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/16 "2009-08-02T00:43:49Z")
I think they should be reprimanded if for nothing else being horrible liars. Hmm…she’s drunk…so what could we use to explain her causing the accident…hmm…she’s **drunk** …hmm… I got it! We’ll say a cat jumped out of her window! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/17 "2009-08-02T01:25:24Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Here’s the thing, as a “cop defender” I’m typically defending the police when leftists and general anti-government whackos jump into a situation before any real fact finding has occurred. Hey, _wait a minute_, I thought it was the tighty-righties who hold the gubmint responsible for all the evil in the country, and the lefties thought government was the solution to all of life’s problems. Has there been a memo that I missed? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/18 "2009-08-02T01:39:13Z")
Didn’t we just have this thread. Like in Gates, the cops will write a report that will cover their asses. That is not where you look for the truth. This time the cops got caught on tape committing to a plot to blame someone else for something they did. It is not new. It is how they work. Cops are more interested in covering for themselves rather than doing the right and legal thing. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/19 "2009-08-02T01:50:36Z")
No, it is not a ZZ Top song, but the ingredients of a Perfect Shit-Storm on the Dope! I can’t wait… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/20 "2009-08-02T01:52:13Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > :rolleyes: Yeah, you’re right, the’re not any… Should be so easy to prove that there are then, huh? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002.md?page=2)