# Okay, cop defenders, here's one for you (attempt to frame DUI driver) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002 "2009-08-01T21:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/21 "2009-08-02T02:06:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Cops are more interested in covering for themselves rather than doing the right and legal thing. Why do I hear Michael Weston voicing this? But yes, yes, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/22 "2009-08-02T02:47:57Z")
In regards to retaining them on the forcfe, won’t the fact that they’ve been shown to have falsified police reports work heavily against them the next time they testify in court? How can retaining them in any way help the department? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/23 "2009-08-02T02:58:58Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > How can retaining them in any way help the department? Its a good thing that Child Molesters can’t protect each other. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/24 "2009-08-02T03:25:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They conspired to frame her for a crime, and any evidence they gathered is thus tainted. Evidence can be tainted but not necessarily inadmissible. Sometimes the taint can go to the weight with which the decider of fact should consider said evidence. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/25 "2009-08-02T03:36:13Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > In regards to retaining them on the forcfe, won’t the fact that they’ve been shown to have falsified police reports work heavily against them the next time they testify in court? How can retaining them in any way help the department? In fact, anybody who’s been convicted recently due to testimony of these cops should probably appeal their decisions. And they should probably be overturned. Way to go, blue. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/26 "2009-08-02T03:36:57Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > How can retaining them in any way help the department? Someone’s gotta work pawnshop detail, or patrol the harbor on a boat… ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/27 "2009-08-02T03:45:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Its a good thing that Child Molesters can’t protect each other. 🙂 Except in a certain organization headquartered somewhere in Italy… ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/28 "2009-08-02T04:38:45Z")
I can’t figure out if the “cop defenders” here are really just ardent supporters of our boys in blue, or if they’re sadistic supporters of the use of tasers, no matter what. Of course, we all know [the police would never abuse tasers . . .](http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=131736&catid=3) ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/29 "2009-08-02T05:08:17Z")
What’s up with all the broad brushing here? So, there are bad cops. Doesn’t mean all cops are bad. What’s the alternative? No cops at all? Yay, anarchy? What group shall we demonize next? Silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/30 "2009-08-02T05:21:22Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I can’t figure out if the “cop defenders” here are really just ardent supporters of our boys in blue, or if they’re sadistic supporters of the use of tasers, no matter what. Of course, we all know [the police would never abuse tasers . . .](http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=131736&catid=3) Would you prefer abusive cops [use their batons and pepper spray](http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0309/599984.html) instead? The fact the bad cops will use one of their weapons improperly says much more about the cop than the weapon? There’s a well-known adage that applies: Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/31 "2009-08-02T05:26:42Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > …The report, instead of making the cop liable for rear-ending the motorist, fabricated a scenario whereby she swerved suddenly in front of the cop and jammed on her brakes, making it impossible for him to stop in time. The existence of the cat was a complete fabrication. > > From all reports i’ve read, the woman was clearly over the limit, and deserved a DUI. But she also was not responsible for the accident, in the sense that she never swerved out of her lane. The cop rear-ending her was the cop’s fault, and he and the other officers tried to cover that up by lying about the actions of her and her car… No, in the video she said something about “a cat jumped out the window and I slammed the brakes,” or else I’m hearing it wrong. You know, rear-enders are not _always_ the fault of the follower. If she started up after waiting for a light, then slammed on her brakes, even a non-cop driver might not get a ticket. Usually, in the case of any accident at all, both drivers are somewhat responsible. It sounds like the 23-year-old lush was at least partly at fault. (I can’t believe I’m taking the cops’ side even this far.) BUT, they totally blew it by inventing stuff. I would like to note that about 1973 I was rear-ended by a cop, and they managed not to arrest me and to send me a check for the repairs. (The check was probably for more than the car was worth.) I’m fairly sure the driver did not get a ticket, though. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/32 "2009-08-02T07:06:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > There are a few members of this forum who defend cops no matter what, (and a few who attack no matter what) so [here’s a test of just how dedicated you all are](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32238565/ns/local_news-miami_fl/) to defense: > > The charges against the driver have been dropped and five employees suspended. > > For some reason, others seem to be linking to an MSNBC video, but it’s not connected to the MSNBC site, so [here](http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/cops_frame_woman_for_routine_a.php) is some commentary plus (part of?) the video. Still waiting for that list of forum members who defend cops no matter what. Got that list yet? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/33 "2009-08-02T07:20:54Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > No, in the video she said something about “a cat jumped out the window and I slammed the brakes,” or else I’m hearing it wrong. OK, i heard that now. So the cops didn’t actually fabricate the existence of the cat; they merely fabricated what the woman did with her car, saying that she swerved into an adjacent lane rather than simply braking in the lane she was in. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > You know, rear-enders are not _always_ the fault of the follower. If she started up after waiting for a light, then slammed on her brakes, even a non-cop driver might not get a ticket. Usually, in the case of any accident at all, both drivers are somewhat responsible. It sounds like the 23-year-old lush was at least partly at fault. If you think the issue here is whether rear-enders are always the follower’s fault, then i submit that you are completely missing the point of the argument. The question is not who was at fault, but that the police can clearly be heard conspiring to alter the story so as to make the woman appear more culpable than she actually was, and to completely remove any blame for the accident from the officer who rear-ended her. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > (I can’t believe I’m taking the cops’ side even this far.) Me neither. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > BUT, they totally blew it by inventing stuff. “Blew it” is not exactly the words i would use, but hey, it’s nice of you to at least admit they might have done the wrong thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/34 "2009-08-02T07:42:58Z")
Actually my point was that the cops didn’t even HAVE TO fabricate anything. That they did makes them not just look bad, but stupid-bad. The driver admitted she’d been drinking and she admitted she started up then slammed on her brakes. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/35 "2009-08-02T07:45:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Hang all of them as an example to others! Sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/36 "2009-08-02T08:20:41Z")
The OP is patently asinine so I’ll waste few words on it. The group it addresses is illusory. By ‘cop defenders’ you can only mean people that will defend policemen no matter what they do. I have never seen anyone take such a position on this board. I can only imagine your scorn were the converse to be posted. “Hey, cop haters, what about this cop who rescued a kid from a blazing inferno?” And your scorn would be justified. Such a post would be idiotic. As is yours. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/37 "2009-08-02T08:30:09Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The group it addresses is illusory. By ‘cop defenders’ you can only mean people that will defend policemen no matter what they do. I have never seen anyone take such a position on this board. Well, there was a guy who turned out to be a Houston cop, who was kind of annoying in his response to every question of police malfeasance: essentially, “You ingrates don’t understand, it’s us against them!” ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/38 "2009-08-02T12:03:47Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > I think they should be reprimanded if for nothing else being horrible liars. > > Hmm…she’s drunk…so what could we use to explain her causing the accident…hmm…she’s **drunk**..hmm… > > I got it! > > We’ll say a cat jumped out of her window! I know…it was like they were playing a game of MadLibs or something! Couldn’t they have come up with something more plausible than that? Edit: OK, you have to watch the video. I was going on the article which makes it sound like the cops are inventing the cat thing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/39 "2009-08-02T13:06:44Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Actually my point was that the cops didn’t even HAVE TO fabricate anything. That they did makes them not just look bad, but stupid-bad. The driver admitted she’d been drinking and she admitted she started up then slammed on her brakes. If you rear end someone who stops, it is your fault. You are supposed to be far enough back to prevent such a thing happening. You have no excuse for rear ending someone, unless they are driving in reverse, then maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002/40 "2009-08-02T13:28:10Z")
I would hope they are fired, for from now on, now matter what case they may testify at in the future, the cross-examination of each of them will start with “Have you ever deliberately falsified or conspired to falisfy . . . ,” following which there would be a good chance that their testimony would be tossed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-cop-defenders-heres-one-for-you-attempt-to-frame-dui-driver/505002.md?page=3)