# Okay, does or does not the current health care bill cover illegal immigrants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526 "2009-09-10T06:44:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/81 "2009-09-11T06:03:19Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Let’s put it this way: if this healthcare bill passes, illegal immigrants will have essentially unlimited access to healthcare. The healthcare system will not create nor enforce a citizenship litmus test of any kind. To the extent that healthcare for those whose premiums do not cover the cost of their healthcare is paid for by all others, healthcare will have been provided to illegal aliens on a much broader basis than it is now. > > Any argument to the contrary is disingenuous and naive. > > I am not taking a position on whether or not this is the correct thing to do, but the answer to the OP is: this healthcare bill will result in healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants. Repeating this doesn’t make it any more logical. No illegal immigrants will receive subsidies. The number of people getting ER care now without insurance will be unchanged. In fact, if rates go down thanks to savings or a public option, the uncovered costs may decrease if illegals can now afford care (without subsidies.) Or do you want to prevent an illegal alien from buying insurance and paying full price? Where you get unlimited access to healthcare is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/82 "2009-09-11T07:09:58Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Let’s put it this way: if this healthcare bill passes, illegal immigrants will have essentially unlimited access to healthcare. Wrong. It changes nothing in the way that these people are dealt with now, as far as actual care goes. > [@Chief Pedant](#): > > The healthcare system will not create nor enforce a citizenship litmus test of any kind. To the extent that healthcare for those whose premiums do not cover the cost of their healthcare is paid for by all others, healthcare will have been provided to illegal aliens on a much broader basis than it is now. > > Any argument to the contrary is disingenuous and naive. Nope; that’s incorrect. As I showed, under HR 3200 the Health Commissioner will be responsible for setting up a “litmus test” for who can access insurance. The fact that some people may be treated without insurance is no different than the way it is today, except that today a greater number of people are without insurance, thus the number of people recieving care “outside the system” is greater today than it would be with the passage of HR 3200. > [@](#): > > I am not taking a position on whether or not this is the correct thing to do, but the answer to the OP is: this healthcare bill will result in healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants. As has been shown repeatedly, this is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/83 "2009-09-11T13:10:10Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Stop the bus. Your proposed solutions are all about curbing illegal immigration. Are you saying the brakes should be placed on health care reform until we can stop illegal immigration? Should the brakes be placed on any program that illegal immigrants may get some benefit from somehow? No new roads until we can stop illegal immigrants from using them? > > In any case, we’re not even dealing with a bill that is offering to assist undocumented residents with paying for health care costs. We’re talking about a bill that does not have explicitly state that we must require proof of legal residency before admitting anyone into the ER. We’ve never done that, so the question is how do you want to address the issue of people who show up with head wounds, but can’t cough up a birth certificate. Are we going to in circles, because your answer will be “deterrence” again? No, I think we are going in circles because the answer changes based upon the ever moving question. You guys might want to get together, figure out the question and then I’ll take the time to answer it instead of going into this circular argument we’ve got going now. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/84 "2009-09-11T13:11:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I find your lack of cite disturbing… Can I site my own company? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/85 "2009-09-11T13:17:13Z")
I don’t know who “you guys” are, but I was asking a question. In case you missed it, I’ll paste what I typed last time. How do you want to address the issue of people who show up with head wounds, but can’t cough up a birth certificate? And in case you intend to start nitpicking (never know around here), I don’t mean strictly a literal birth certificate, I mean proof of legal residency. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/86 "2009-09-11T13:18:47Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Since Shodan’s high-tailed it out of the topic, maybe you can answer? > > You’re the hospital director in charge of a place that just took a Mexican-looking guy into the ER for a serious injury. He can’t speak English and has no ID. What do you do? Stop dodging the question and answer that and maybe you’ll see why Obama’s health care reform does not really cover illegals any more than health care has ever done. To make that argument or single out Obama’s health plan as somehow illegal-friendly is dishonest This is the problem that you guys keep coming back to. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID TO NOT TREAT THESE GUYS. NOT SHODAN AND NOT ME. The argument isn’t Don’t treat the illegal aliens, it’s the fact that people are pointing to the DIRECT LANGUAGE OF THE BILL as it says THEY aren’t going to treat them. THIS IS A BALD FACED LIE, regardless of how it is currently. Sorry for the caps but this has been explained at least once BY ME, in this thread already. The question then evolved into, well what would you have us do. My answer was deterrence or amnesty. Either way helps cut the costs of this staggering idea for UHC. The question to you guys is why the hell would you NOT want it as cheap as possible? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/87 "2009-09-11T13:19:56Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I don’t know who “you guys” are, but I was asking a question. In case you missed it, I’ll paste what I typed last time. How do you want to address the issue of people who show up with head wounds, but can’t cough up a birth certificate? And in case you intend to start nitpicking (never know around here), I don’t mean strictly a literal birth certificate, I mean proof of legal residency. Read the post right below yours and it answers that question. I apologize for lumping ‘you guys’. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/88 "2009-09-11T13:26:45Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > No, I think we are going in circles because the answer changes based upon the ever moving question. I think there are 3 basic levels of coverage in question and they’re getting muddled together under one word. 1. “ER coverage” - when someone shows up with a gaping head wound, or heart attack, they are cared for until it is safe for them to be discharged. Everybody gets this already, and I nobody is going to require proof of citizenship before you can tap into this level of service, not Obama, not the Republicans, not anybody. If this is what you (general you) are complaining about, there’s no reason to continue discussing it. 2. “regular coverage” - you pay full boat for your insurance/health care. I suppose one could attach immigration requirements to this, but there’s no particular reason to. There is no health care related purpose to an immigration check, it’s just a place you can ferret out illegal immigrants. If you complain about this, you’re complaining that we are not using our health care system as a way of finding illegal immigrants. 3. “Obamacare coverage” - the government picks up the tab (or part of the tab) for your insurance. This is specifically noted in the health care legislation, illegal immigrants are not allowed to receive government funding, which they have to apply for and get approval for. While I might think that funding their coverage is the humane and decent thing to do, I also understand that doing so could significantly affect our immigration issues, and I don’t want to go there, and neither does Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/89 "2009-09-11T13:28:32Z")
Let me ask you guys one thing: I am guessing that currently hospitals procedure costs have a ‘built in’ countermeasure for handling those uninsured who come into the ER. If the government controls the pricing, it is no longer possible for the hospital to cover those expenditures. Who gets screwed when the illegals rush to the ER now? Is the government going to cover those costs or force the hospitals out of business? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/90 "2009-09-11T13:30:56Z")
> [@furt](#): > > It’s easy enough to make it so the answer is “both.” > > For one, note that the Hispanic Caucus only objects to _enforcement_. So all you have to do is put in there that illegals are not covered … and then also write a provision that prevents the “public option” insurer from ever asking about immigration status. _Mirabile dictu_, you can now guarantee care for all the illegals, while still plausibly denying you’ve done so. That’s well said. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/91 "2009-09-11T13:40:34Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > The argument isn’t Don’t treat the illegal aliens, it’s the fact that people are pointing to the DIRECT LANGUAGE OF THE BILL as it says THEY aren’t going to treat them. THIS IS A BALD FACED LIE, regardless of how it is currently. Have to run in a sec so no time to check but pretty sure the bill says nothing of who will get treated. It says it will not allow federal assistance in paying for insurance for illegal aliens. That of course is supposed to appease the right wing who really hates illegal aliens but the fact remains illegal aliens will still get wheeled into the ER and still get care as they do today and we will all still pay for it. So people then ask the question that in order to avoid paying for illegal aliens’ medical care, at all, you need to find a way to deny care to them. Anything else and you are really just shoving the expenses around from one place to another and is a fools shell game. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/92 "2009-09-11T13:49:45Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m not sure if you’re aware of this or not, but that barn door’s not only open, but the hinges are off. They. Are. Here. So what do we do when they get deathly ill? What’s your solution to that? Conversely, when an American citizen needs a hip replacement or an organ transplant, but the resources which should have gone for his care went to an illegal immigrant instead, are you just going to say, “Tough luck, granny, you’re a racist”? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/93 "2009-09-11T14:08:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Have to run in a sec so no time to check but pretty sure the bill says nothing of who will get treated. It says it will not allow federal assistance in paying for insurance for illegal aliens. > > That of course is supposed to appease the right wing who really hates illegal aliens but the fact remains illegal aliens will still get wheeled into the ER and still get care as they do today and we will all still pay for it. > > So people then ask the question that in order to avoid paying for illegal aliens’ medical care, at all, you need to find a way to deny care to them. Anything else and you are really just shoving the expenses around from one place to another and is a fools shell game. Deterrence or Amnesty (with checks in place to ensure the payment of taxes) Both options provide a financial boon to the failing health care in America (regardless of how it gets handled) ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/94 "2009-09-11T14:09:29Z")
Well, no of course not. If it is a ‘he’ then he is not ‘Granny’. What are you going to say to him if he needs the hip replacement and the money went to Newt Gingrich instead? The rich white Republicans still vastly outnumber the undocumented workers in this country and will still be a bigger drain in any Healthcare system as they tend to get better care and live longer. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/95 "2009-09-11T14:18:07Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Well, no of course not. If it is a ‘he’ then he is not ‘Granny’. What are you going to say to him if he needs the hip replacement and the money went to Newt Gingrich instead? The rich white Republicans still vastly outnumber the undocumented workers in this country and will still be a bigger drain in any Healthcare system as they tend to get better care and live longer. Outnumber? Really? Now if you want to put forth that the aging rich folks need/receive better care, we might have a stance to argue. However, the one you put forth is laughable. > **[Illegal immigration to the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States)** > > Illegal immigration, or unauthorized immigration, occurs when foreign nationals, known as aliens or non-citizens, violate US immigration laws by entering the United States unlawfully, or by lawfully entering but then remaining after the expiration of their visas, parole or temporary protected status. > Between 2007 and 2018, visa overstays have accounted for a larger share of the growth in the undocumented immigrant population of the United States than illegal border crossings, which have decl... 12 million rich white folks is quite a lot. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/96 "2009-09-11T14:22:15Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Well, no of course not. If it is a ‘he’ then he is not ‘Granny’. What are you going to say to him if he needs the hip replacement and the money went to Newt Gingrich instead? The rich white Republicans still vastly outnumber the undocumented workers in this country and will still be a bigger drain in any Healthcare system as they tend to get better care and live longer. No matter how you slice it, resources given to illegal immigrants can’t be given to citizens. Somewhere along the line, some government bureaucrat will have to make the decision to give resources to people who have no legal or moral right to be here instead of American citizens. I suspect the vast majority of them will not be interested in your lame justifications. And I suspect your definition of “rich white Republican” is anybody who’s white, isn’t poor, and doesn’t think much of Obama. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/97 "2009-09-11T14:28:31Z")
[Seven Falsehoods About Health Care - FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/) According to fact check, no ,they are not . Here are the myths of health care dealt with by fact check. Any thread that starts with what Wilson says ,is in trouble at the start. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/98 "2009-09-11T14:29:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think there are 3 basic levels of coverage in question and they’re getting muddled together under one word. > > 1. “ER coverage” - when someone shows up with a gaping head wound, or heart attack, they are cared for until it is safe for them to be discharged. Everybody gets this already, and I nobody is going to require proof of citizenship before you can tap into this level of service, not Obama, not the Republicans, not anybody. If this is what you (general you) are complaining about, there’s no reason to continue discussing it. > > 2. “regular coverage” - you pay full boat for your insurance/health care. I suppose one could attach immigration requirements to this, but there’s no particular reason to. There is no health care related purpose to an immigration check, it’s just a place you can ferret out illegal immigrants. If you complain about this, you’re complaining that we are not using our health care system as a way of finding illegal immigrants. > > 3. “Obamacare coverage” - the government picks up the tab (or part of the tab) for your insurance. This is specifically noted in the health care legislation, illegal immigrants are not allowed to receive government funding, which they have to apply for and get approval for. While I might think that funding their coverage is the humane and decent thing to do, I also understand that doing so could significantly affect our immigration issues, and I don’t want to go there, and neither does Obama. Thank you, Cheesesteak, for delineating this. Now, Kearsen et al, can you please clarify which of these 3 items you are angry about? Is it (1) Emergency-only uninsured coverage (2) Regular, full-pay insurance coverage or (3) “Obamacare”, where the govt. is picking up part/much of the tab for your insurance coverage? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/99 "2009-09-11T14:40:21Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > Thank you, Cheesesteak, for delineating this. > > Now, Kearsen et al, can you please clarify which of these 3 items you are angry about? Is it (1) Emergency-only uninsured coverage (2) Regular, full-pay insurance coverage or (3) “Obamacare”, where the govt. is picking up part/much of the tab for your insurance coverage? To clarify, I’m not angry about any of them. I was merely answering a question put forth. The argument was whether or not illegal immigrants would get coverage. The clear and concise answer was “yes they would, as it is currently” My hypothesis was that under my ‘proposed solution’ the illegal alien’s coverage would be moot as they wouldn’t be over here illegally. (See, how that also helps with all 3 scenarios) ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526/100 "2009-09-11T14:46:07Z")
Gar! But the plan does not cover illegal immigrants. People who are not legal residents of the US are not eligible for the government option insurance, or affordability credits. What is \*completely separate \*from the plan is that we are not going to let people bleed to death on the emergency room floor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-does-or-does-not-the-current-health-care-bill-cover-illegal-immigrants/509526.md?page=6)