# Okay, everyone that gets their panties all in a twist over cyclists, in here! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110 "2005-07-19T06:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/81 "2005-07-23T17:43:00Z")
In my morning commute, there is a two-lane each way road that leads into downtown. This road is fairly busy, but the traffic usually flows along this road quite well each morning. Sometimes, there is a bike going down the middle of one of the lanes; the traffic piles up behind the bike, and cars dart into the other (full) lane to get around it. This bike is creating a traffic hazard. Sure, the car drivers could patiently wait for the bike and not dart into the other lane to try to go around it, but let’s stay in the world of what people actually do here. Even if the drivers were to act out of character and be patient, the cyclist is still creating a dangerous traffic condition. I don’t see a solution for these kinds of problems. And let’s not forget that attitudes are cumulative, too. It’s not a case of a driver being inconvenienced by a cyclist once in their lifetime; in my commute, it’s more like once a day. And you make an excellent point, **lawoot** - this is part of what cheeses drivers off. Cyclists pick and choose which laws they will respect, then expect drivers to respect them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/82 "2005-07-23T19:35:37Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > In my morning commute, there is a two-lane each way road that leads into downtown. This road is fairly busy, but the traffic usually flows along this road quite well each morning. Sometimes, there is a bike going down the middle of one of the lanes; the traffic piles up behind the bike, and cars dart into the other (full) lane to get around it. This bike is creating a traffic hazard. Ah, I see. Never mind that the other cars are the ones darting around. Never mind the large number of cars being around is leading to the hazards you describe. Naaaah, let’s blame the bike!!! Its sooo much easier to do that! If the people on bikes were in cars, do you really think traffic would improve? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/83 "2005-07-23T20:13:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] [QUOTE=Malacandra] That’s “jeopardy”, numbnuts. Never use any word you can’t spell. [/QUOTE} Best you can do is a spel flayme? Geez.[/quote] No, it’s not the best I can do. Your coding bites, too. 😛 > [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > Read my post again, I said that you **think** of acting dangerous due to an alleged inconvenience. No, you read mine again: > [@Malacandra](#): > > Fwiw, when I’m in a cage I give cyclists the whole width of the lane when I’m passing them, and if I can’t, I don’t pass 'em. But riders like the two I’ve mentioned in this thread sometimes cause me to wonder why. And parse this as mild exasperation on my part on seeing good manners poorly repaid - not a resolve to do them worse next time. Oh, and you’re a twat. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/84 "2005-07-23T20:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] > [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > And parse this as mild exasperation on my part on seeing good manners poorly repaid What you claim to be ‘good manners’ is actually basic safety behavior. They need to be repaid no more than you need to repay a person in another car for not T-boning you. > [@](#): > > - not a resolve to do them worse next time. But it was the suggestion that you feel you the need to be rewarded for simple safety with subservience to your impatience. That is the core of the problem. You, of course, will not see it that way. > [@](#): > > Oh, and you’re a twat. And you are a condescending fucknut. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/85 "2005-07-23T21:18:58Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Recently, someone from Britain started a thread about how they didn’t like cyclists because they felt as if they didn’t obey traffic laws. Several other posters went on to contribute actual empirical evidence to that thread in the form of fatality statistics proving that in bike-auto accidents the auto driver is usually at fault, careful first-hand observations that demonstrated that the majority of cyclists actually were law abiding people, etc. Also, the fact remains that like it or not, anyone with a 3,000 lb steel machine bears more responsibility than one with a 17 lb carbon fiber one. > > Anyway, I just thought I’d write another thread to implore everyone, regardless of their mode of transit, to please be courteous, understanding, and most of all careful out on the road. > > Recently, a category 3 road racer from my town, riding on the same stretch of road that I’ll ride 3-6 times a week, a man that I had raced against and met once, was killed while riding up US-36 just outside of Boulder. A young man at the wheel of a white Ford Explorer fell asleep, drifted into the oncoming traffic lane, and killed Mr. Kornfield instantly, hitting him so hard that apparently his leg just, well, _came off_ . > > [http://www.triathletemag.com/story.cfm?story\_id=9976&publicationID=92&pageID=1728](http://www.triathletemag.com/story.cfm?story_id=9976&publicationID=92&pageID=1728) > > Within the past 24 hours, a young woman in a mini-van in Australia veered across oncoming lanes and hit six women opening up their legs for an upcoming stage race. Amy Gillett, an elite cyclist and PhD candidate was killed, three others were critically injured, and the other two are in the hospital. > > [http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2005/jul05/jul19news2](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2005/jul05/jul19news2) > > Please be careful. Yes, you have yourself safely ensconced in thousands of pounds of metal, side impact airbags, and a Volvo nametag, but those of us with a bit more minimalist mode of transit would appreciate it if you’d just be careful. If you feel yourself getting tired and nodding off, for god-sakes, please take 20 minutes to nap and then go obtain caffeine. Only proceed if you’re really alert and ready for the responsibility of driving. I’ll continue to do my best to represent cyclists well, stopping at cross-walks for pedestrians, not blowing through stop-signs, and being the smallest possible delay for motorists. Hopefully we can avoid any unnecessary incidents like this in the future. > > When I think about the lean bodies that I race against each weekend or my own having their limbs torn away, skulls crushed, and chests collapsed, I get a bit nauseous. [/]Don’t\* cut me off in a left turn to save three seconds. > > Thanks, > **threemae** I’ll agree that drivers need to be more courteous and safety consious when cyclists are around, but the two examples here seem to fall into the “random catastrophe” category than anything to do with cyclists per se. An inexperienced driver or one that falls asleep could have caused tragedy to a pedestrian, a jogger, or another driver just as easily. Aren’t those “rides north of Boulder” infamous for cyclists riding 10 abreast across the road and blowing through stop signs and generally poor behaviour on the part of the riders? Not that this has anything to do with the tragedy of the young man’s death, but I thought it odd that you woud use that particular ride as an example. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/86 "2005-07-24T00:01:00Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Cyclists pick and choose which laws they will respect, then expect drivers to respect them. What exactly do you mean by “respect them”? Because I sure as hell hope you do not mean that because in your view cyclists don’t obey certain traffic laws, they shouldn’t expect motorists to respect their persons. In the context of this OP that’s the obvious way to read this comment. You wouldn’t be advocating vigilante violence against cyclists would you? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/87 "2005-07-24T04:17:19Z")
> [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > So why tire of bikes when your obvious problem is congestion caused by cars? I love how people complain about bikes in traffic siutations when it is the multiple automobiles that are slowing them down. Blaming the bike is like eating a huge, multicourse meal and then saying the green salad made you fat. All righty then. I am gonna guess you know how long a city block is, how many cars fit into a lane between sets of lights and the stop and go stuff ,this is normal for most citys I would assume. So here I would be waiting patiently in line waiting for traffic to move and probably inching up at somewhere around 5 mph if that, while a bicycle or two come flying up curbside doing , meh , meh probably 20 mph , its sorta a reverse of now you see him , now you don’t , yeah it gets irratating. > [@](#): > > Are there so many cyclists where you live that they are causing choking on six lane roads? Wow. Bikes , motor cycles , trams, buses , 5 ton trucks , semi’s . Not always gridlock ,but it does happen, and if Toronto city council and their birkenstock pals have their way , no internal combustion vehicles will be allowed on the road. > [@](#): > > Oh wait, the cars cause the problem, and then you again try to blame the bicycles. Riiiight. Well, stay off the road No, no, no a thousand times no! > [@](#): > > Registration pays for little more than the needed state administration of motor vehicles (and very often does not pay for itself), gas taxes pay for arteries and other retricted roads (only partially in most states) that cyclists are not allowed to use. > My property taxes pay for the roads I use. So don’t give that me that old saw. I am gonna ansewer this question in another post to an aussie with an attitude > [@](#): > > But hey, if you want to license bikes, go ahead. How do you want to do it? By weight? cost? potential for damage? I’ll happily pay an annual fee, but you don’t want that to actually happen since you’d lose your primary arguement for hating bikes. Yup , what I want is a tag that can be read, and third party insurance that covers bikes clipping side view mirrors , denting panels and that sorta thing, plus give walkers some sort of compensation in case of being clipped by a cyclist, same as motor vehicles do. Make that happen , and insurance companys will come out with over priced packages. > [@](#): > > Wonderful, and they complain that bicyclists are arrogant. Well thats a statement, I have to work on my arrogance now. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/88 "2005-07-24T04:35:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Shitforbrains, people have a right to do what the law says they do. The law says bikes have a right to be on the road, so they have that right. **People do not lose the right to do an activity because they do not pay a tax on the activity that the law does not require them to pay**. Truly you are clueless. Yo chester , insult me all you want , your just a poor aussie half a world away getting a little steamed that other people have different opinions than you do Now for the bolded part Says here in this ontario hand book for driving that driving a motor vehicle in the province of ontario , is a privilege , not a right, so ya your ass is privileged to be on that road ,just like mine is. If your govt decrees it , then yes , you will pay it. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, roads are paid for from consolidated revenue. Consolidated revenue derives from a variety of taxes. Rich people pay more taxes. Do you think they should have rights to government services that people who pay less tax do not? Well, I see you never mentioned anything about insurance or plates, gee. I imagine that your like most people , just commuting from point a to point b and some one like me comes along and your splattered on the road awaiting an ambulance to take you to the hospital , where you recover and expect to see some damages and maybe some charges brought up against me or the like minded aussie in your case. Well , you have witnesses that have my make of car , my licence and pretty much all thats needed for the cops to come and charge me , while my insurance has a claim filed against it. You , heck you can book it and what are the cops gonna say , no way of identifying you , and if even if they do , what kind of coin is a pedestrian gonna see if you happen to clip him , or her. Depending on the geographical location ,which will probably vary. Yeah ,get steamed all you like , but stay off my roads till you have the bare modicum of what we pay. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/89 "2005-07-24T05:14:11Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Yo chester , insult me all you want , your just a poor aussie half a world away getting a little steamed that other people have different opinions than you do > > Now for the bolded part > > Says here in this ontario hand book for driving that driving a motor vehicle in the province of ontario , is a privilege , not a right, so ya your ass is privileged to be on that road ,just like mine is. > > If your govt decrees it , then yes , you will pay it. > > Well, I see you never mentioned anything about insurance or plates, gee. > > I imagine that your like most people , just commuting from point a to point b and some one like me comes along and your splattered on the road awaiting an ambulance to take you to the hospital , where you recover and expect to see some damages and maybe some charges brought up against me or the like minded aussie in your case. > > Well , you have witnesses that have my make of car , my licence and pretty much all thats needed for the cops to come and charge me , while my insurance has a claim filed against it. > > You , heck you can book it and what are the cops gonna say , no way of identifying you , and if even if they do , what kind of coin is a pedestrian gonna see if you happen to clip him , or her. > > Depending on the geographical location ,which will probably vary. > > Yeah ,get steamed all you like , but stay off my roads till you have the bare modicum of what we pay. > > Declan It’s a rude question, but you’re being way beyond rude so what do I care? How much do you earn a year? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/90 "2005-07-24T05:37:07Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s a rude question, but you’re being way beyond rude so what do I care? How much do you earn a year? Bout 35 k a year ,depending on overtime Now you can tell me you earn (dependin on currency conversion of course) that you make somewhere between 75 and 150 k a year AUS and you pay more in Vat than I pay in general income tax. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/91 "2005-07-24T05:47:48Z")
So do you think you have less right to government services than I do? Do you accept that if we both call the police, my call should get higher priority? Do you accept that I (or my children) should get the first pick of schools and teachers? Do you accept that when I want to go faster than you in my car, you should move over? I don’t think that at all, by the way, but I’m interested in learning just how fucked up your opinions are. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/92 "2005-07-24T05:54:57Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > I’ll agree that drivers need to be more courteous and safety consious when cyclists are around, but the two examples here seem to fall into the “random catastrophe” category than anything to do with cyclists per se. An inexperienced driver or one that falls asleep could have caused tragedy to a pedestrian, a jogger, or another driver just as easily. > > Aren’t those “rides north of Boulder” infamous for cyclists riding 10 abreast across the road and blowing through stop signs and generally poor behaviour on the part of the riders? Not that this has anything to do with the tragedy of the young man’s death, but I thought it odd that you woud use that particular ride as an example. Umm, you’ve lost me here. Why would I choose to use an example that affected me personally, as I stated, a man that I had raced against and met in passing who was killed through absolutely no fault of his own? All becasue he was killed on a stretch of road where you’ve heard stories of cyclists doing irresponsible things? For all of the wretchedly irresponsible riding that cyclists have been doing around here in Boulder, perhaps you can point me to an example of these individuals doing actual harm to anyone. Oh wait, that’s right, that’s because they’re riding bikes as opposed to piloting a 4,000 lb SUV. This isn’t a “random catastrophe.” This is a driver doing something stupid; driving when he was tired and obviously a danger to anyone on the road. You wouldn’t brush aside the dangerous driving of a drunkard or someone with uncontrolled epilepsey. But when it’s driving while dog tired and veering into an oncoming lane, it’s simply a “random catastrophe”? ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/93 "2005-07-24T06:00:22Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > In my morning commute, there is a two-lane each way road that leads into downtown. This road is fairly busy, but the traffic usually flows along this road quite well each morning. Sometimes, there is a bike going down the middle of one of the lanes; the traffic piles up behind the bike, and cars dart into the other (full) lane to get around it. This bike is creating a traffic hazard. > > Sure, the car drivers could patiently wait for the bike and not dart into the other lane to try to go around it, but let’s stay in the world of what people actually do here. Even if the drivers were to act out of character and be patient, the cyclist is still creating a dangerous traffic condition. I don’t see a solution for these kinds of problems. There’s actually a quite obvious solution to this problem. The government agency in charge of the road needs to build a wider shoulder such that motor vehicles can move unimpeeded along-side cyclists. A road widened by two to three feet adds nominal costs to the road but increases its utility and carrying capacity. The cyclists will benefit from a less stressful commute, and the traffic will continue to benefit from reduced motor vehicle traffic because instead of creating greenhouse emissions, using up oil resources, and causing traffic congestion, some commuters are on a bike. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/94 "2005-07-24T06:01:02Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > In my morning commute, there is a two-lane each way road that leads into downtown. This road is fairly busy, but the traffic usually flows along this road quite well each morning. Sometimes, there is a bike going down the middle of one of the lanes; the traffic piles up behind the bike, and cars dart into the other (full) lane to get around it. This bike is creating a traffic hazard. That bicyclist is obeying traffic laws and riding in the only safe way he/she can on that road. If anyone is “creating a traffic hazard,” it’s the city planners who neglected to add a bicycle lane\*, and the drivers who have trouble negotiating this perfectly commonplace situation. \*An extra-wide outside lane or a paved shoulder (without rumble strips!) would be acceptable alternatives. > [@Malacandra](#): > > Case in point this morning (they’re just popping up unprompted, it’s amazing); I was on a B-road - not a farm track by any means - and there was about half a dozen vehicles held up by one cyclist. He was pulling maybe 15-20mph, not bad for a velocipede, next behind him was a biggish lorry, then three or four cars and my mo’bike bringing up the rear. > > The road was too winding, and the lorry too devoid of acceleration, for anyone to have much hope of getting past the bicyclist for quite a while. Did he pay attention to what was going on behind him and pull over to wave the motorised traffic through? Um… no. Eventually we reached a straight that was long enough for the lorry to get past,… Complain all you want, but I’m not pulling over on a winding road. If I do, I know you’ll be passing me with only inches to spare. If it were a farm equipment, would you expect it to pull over and stop in the middle of a winding road? Would it be safe for you to pass it? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/95 "2005-07-24T06:14:03Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Yeah ,get steamed all you like , but stay off my roads till you have the bare modicum of what we pay. From [here](http://www.umanitoba.ca/transport_institute/publications/Publications/REVISEDRoadsPublicGood.pdf): > [@](#): > > The vast majority of Canadian roads are financed from taxes collected by the government and funneled into a general revenue fund. With few exceptions, no explicit link exists between road related revenues and expenditures. This is a critical distinction that differentiates the treatment of roads in Canada from those in the United States. While fuel excise taxes, licensing fees and vehicle registration fees are collected in both countries, these charges cannot be considered true road user fees in Canada because the revenues they generate are not explicitly allocated to roads7. Informal studies aimed at establishing a direct link between road revenues and expenditures in some jurisdictions have been conducted, but thus far highway expenditure decisions have been made independently of road-related revenues as a matter of Canadian public policy. So much for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/96 "2005-07-24T06:23:58Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Says here in this ontario hand book for driving that driving a motor vehicle in the province of ontario , is a privilege , not a right, so ya your ass is privileged to be on that road ,just like mine is. Fuck about with terminology all you like, your point is still a dud. Motorists and cyclists are both entitled to be on the road, whether as a right or privilege. Saying cyclists are not entitled to be on the road is, as a matter of simple fact, bullshit. > [@](#): > > If your govt decrees it , then yes , you will pay it. Yep, and it doesn’t. Deal. > [@](#): > > Well, I see you never mentioned anything about insurance or plates, gee. > > I imagine that your like most people , just commuting from point a to point b and some one like me comes along and your splattered on the road awaiting an ambulance to take you to the hospital , where you recover and expect to see some damages and maybe some charges brought up against me or the like minded aussie in your case. > > Well , you have witnesses that have my make of car , my licence and pretty much all thats needed for the cops to come and charge me , while my insurance has a claim filed against it. > > You , heck you can book it and what are the cops gonna say , no way of identifying you , and if even if they do , what kind of coin is a pedestrian gonna see if you happen to clip him , or her. Oh the hoary old chestnut that motorists are responsible for what they do because they have plates, while cyclists are not. What a steaming load. Try this: put: “hit and run” and “cyclist” into google. Hit enter. Start reading. I only bothered with the first four pages. Every single hit on those first four pages was about a car hitting a cyclist and running away. Not one single one was about a cyclist hitting someone and running away. There’s a _reason_ cars have to be registered and licensed: they are fucking dangerous. Bikes, by and large, are not and so such measures are not necessary. Your argument is like a man walking his muzzled tiger in the park saying he has more right to be there than the kids playing, because the kids aren’t wearing muzzles. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/97 "2005-07-24T06:45:06Z")
> [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > What you claim to be ‘good manners’ is actually basic safety behavior. They need to be repaid no more than you need to repay a person in another car for not T-boning you. No, “basic safety behaviour” would be studiously to avoid hitting them. “Good manners” is giving them seven or eight feet of extra room so they don’t even feel insecure. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > But it was the suggestion that you feel you the need to be rewarded for simple safety with subservience to your impatience. > > That is the core of the problem. You, of course, will not see it that way. Subservience? It is to laugh. You’re really reaching here. And it wasn’t just a case of my impatience but the inconvenience of half a dozen other road users, which could have been obviated had the cyclist been willing to delay himself for five seconds rather than everyone else… well, indefinitely really; we came eventually to a straight where the truck could pass; it was no doing of the cyclist that the impasse was resolved. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > And you are a condescending fucknut. Granted, but mostly when I’m rubbed up the wrong way. A little tact, and I’m the sweetest sonofabitch around. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/98 "2005-07-24T07:31:53Z")
In case anyone’s interested in seeing a video regarding the case about the individual who hit the Australian cyclists, [here’s a link to ninemsn video](http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/video/p.htm?mkt=en-au&&rf=http://ninemsn.com.au/). Click on “Charges likely as cyclists fight for” (yes, that’s exactly what it says). I recommend clearing the playlist first, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/99 "2005-07-24T15:22:29Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No, “basic safety behaviour” would be studiously to avoid hitting them. “Good manners” is giving them seven or eight feet of extra room so they don’t even feel insecure. Check your local laws. Basic safety does involve giving proper clearance when passing. You are doing nothing special to be rewarded. > [@](#): > > Subservience? It is to laugh. You’re really reaching here. And it wasn’t just a case of my impatience but the inconvenience of half a dozen other road users, which could have been obviated had the cyclist been willing to delay himself for five seconds rather than everyone else… well, indefinitely really; we came eventually to a straight where the truck could pass; it was no doing of the cyclist that the impasse was resolved. Tell you what, before you try paw waving the inconvenience to the cyclist, try this. Take the same road, every time you see another car, stop your car, turn off the engine, step out of the vehicle, wait for the car to be out of your sight, then get back in and start up again. Seem inconvenient? Sure is! But that is what you are asking of the cylist. In fact what you are asking is far, far more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110/100 "2005-07-24T15:29:06Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > All righty then. > > I am gonna guess you know how long a city block is, how many cars fit into a lane between sets of lights and the stop and go stuff ,this is normal for most citys I would assume. > > So here I would be waiting patiently in line waiting for traffic to move and probably inching up at somewhere around 5 mph if that, while a bicycle or two come flying up curbside doing , meh , meh probably 20 mph , its sorta a reverse of now you see him , now you don’t , yeah it gets irratating. You get irritated too easily. Why is your irritation aimed at the cyclists and not all the other cars that you seem capable of waiting patiently for? > [@](#): > > Bikes , motor cycles , trams, buses , 5 ton trucks , semi’s . Not always gridlock ,but it does happen, and if Toronto city council and their birkenstock pals have their way , no internal combustion vehicles will be allowed on the road. I don’t give a shit about your local politics, but I am a moderate-conservative who rides. Don’t try and make this a left/right issue. > [@](#): > > Well, stay off the road No. I paid for it. I need to use it. Go piss up a rope if you can’t handle that. > [@](#): > > I am gonna ansewer this question in another post to an aussie with an attitude And you did it very, very badly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-everyone-that-gets-their-panties-all-in-a-twist-over-cyclists-in-here/313110.md?page=6)