# Okay extreme fundies, If God didn't want me to exist, then why do I? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425 "2002-12-13T04:09:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![l1I235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@l1I235](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l1I235)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/21 "2002-12-13T19:16:01Z")
Thanks Poly for taking the time to tell me. Very enlightening, and I won’t be as cut and dry in the future, thanks to you. ---
**Author:** ![l1I235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@l1I235](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l1I235)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/22 "2002-12-13T19:34:32Z")
Lizard, to me the story of the Tower of Babel is about seperating man because man wrongly wishes to show that he greater then God - that is why he seprates them. (help me out here if you disagree anyone). Too many like to focus on that story, and ignore Acts 17:26: From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. Could not the Tower of Babel story be applied to cultural differences within Europe itself? The French and Italians are both “white”, but they speak different languages, have a different culture, diffrent customs, etc. But I’m sure Bob the 3rd would have no problem with them intermarrying. This isn’t directed towards you Lizard, but the beleif. I belive it is racist, although BJU claims not to be at all racist. Defintion of racist from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): \*1.The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2.Discrimination or prejudice based on race. \* Personally, I think BJU falls under #2. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/23 "2002-12-13T20:21:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > \*\*Actually the Book of Ruth comes out in _favor_ of interracial marriages. I’ve just quickly rescanned it, and Ruth is indeed a Moabite, not a Jew, and she is one of the direct ancestresses of David himself. Then again, there are some folks who would prefer not to be confused with the facts. \*\* Not just Ruth, Rahab doesn’t seem to have been Jewish, either. And yet, there she is - ancestress of David & therefore Jesus. One of the few women named in the geneologies. (Admittedly, that’s often considered one of the more boring parts of the Bible. Perhaps they just glossed over it.) ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/24 "2002-12-13T21:36:56Z")
**mademoiselle,** you have a point, and that is why I don’t agree with Mr. Jones & Company. 🙂 I’m not about to take this debate on and thereby put myself in the unenviable position of defending a position that may or may not be racist, but certainly _sounds_ like it is. All I will say is that Jones used logic to arrive at a faulty conclusion, something that is not unheard of. As for your example of Europeans being different from each other, very true. Very old people remember a time when it would have been socially unacceptable in certain circles to marry an Irish person, or an Italian, or a Jew, even though they were technically “white.” These prejudices were a part of European culture, and still exist in some places. (The Polish hate the Russians, the Irish don’t like the English much, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/25 "2002-12-13T21:48:03Z")
Jesus himslef mixed race. He would be considered black by us standards. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/26 "2002-12-13T23:20:32Z")
Actually, **Poly** , the reason why the Pope would not grant an annulment was because Catherine’s first marriage to Arthur was almost certainly never consummated-Arthur was very sickly and I think they were only married for a month. That’s why she was able to wed Henry in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/27 "2002-12-13T23:29:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\*Jesus himslef mixed race. He would be considered black by us standards. \*\* “Come let us go down and confuse their language.” No, thanks. We’re doing a fine job on our own. ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/28 "2002-12-13T23:38:45Z")
My church youth group visited BJU when I was in junior high school. The first day we were there they had a really long lecture about the rules we had to follow while we were there. Of course I slept through most of it so I don’t remember many of them. Anyway, the impression of the place while I was there that of Nazi germany. Everyone was looking over their shoulders as if they were exspecting SS troops to jump out of the shadows. Male’s rarely talk to females outside of the classroom. It was amazing. Here are some interesting rules the students have to follow (at least at the time I went there). No leaving the campus for the first 2 years without a parent. Limited outside contact, signups for telephone calls, etc. Controlled diet (no bringing in or getting shipped in any outside food. Interesting rules. I’ve heard of many other “Religious” organisations that have those same rules (“Hubbology” for one). They also had a whole slew of dating rules, etc. Anyway the pressure was too great for me and most of the other guys in my youth group so we snuck out in the middle of the night and went skinny dipping with some hottie West Virginia girls 🙂 It was quite a thrill to be running all over the BJU campus in boxers getting chased by a slew of campus cops… ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/29 "2002-12-13T23:59:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*mademoiselle \*\*\* > However, please do enlighten me! I don’t mean to debate; in my admittedly short experiences Protestants I have met (here in the US) are Anglo-Saxon; and are Protestants because they branched from the Church of England. > > Of course I knew about Martin Luther; however his following (I thought) was marginal before Henry the 8th converted, in order to divorce Catherine of Aragon, in order to marry Anne Boleyn. (Forgive the spelling) > Would you enlighten me mousier? As ususal, **Polycarp** did a beautiful job dispelling ignorance. I’d like to add a little- that a few people I know view the the Catholic church as a branch from their religions. I saw a pamphlet from the Eastern Orthodox church that shows a “family tree” of Christian denominatins with theirs as the trunk and Catholicism as the first branch. Also, a Coptic Christian friend of mine views her’s as the “original” Christianity. I have to admit I’m a little fuzzy on early Christian history, but different strokes and all that. 🙂 PC ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/30 "2002-12-14T20:08:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, Poly, the reason why the Pope would not grant an annulment was because Catherine’s first marriage to Arthur was almost certainly never consummated-Arthur was very sickly and I think they were only married for a month. That’s why she was able to wed Henry in the first place. Right, **Guin.** , that’s the ostensible reason for the refusal (as I should have remembered and posted. But, given the power politics of the time, there seems to be some reason to accept the contention that the Emperor’s troops in Rome and the strong urging of the Emperor had something to do with the decision. (That’s assuming that you don’t believe that every Pope has been a saintly, otherworldly individual who would have nothing to do with worldly politics, nosiree!) ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/31 "2002-12-15T07:03:07Z")
From **mademoiselle’s** link: > [@](#): > > he attempts at one-worldism have been to devise a system without God and have fostered the promotion of a unity designed to give the world strength so that God is not needed and can be _overthrown_. [sub]Emphasis mine.[/sub] This just boggles the mind. Do these people really believe this is even a possibility? Will racial mixing breed a race of supermen that will be able to kick God’s ass? What kind of god to these people have, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![l1I235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@l1I235](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l1I235)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/32 "2002-12-15T07:12:38Z")
Yeah, it’s pretty nutty **Dijon**. It’s hard for me to put logic to that. I’ve gotta wonder, who do these people want me to marry? Can’t marry some one white; Can’t marry someone black; It’s unlikely I’ll ever meet someone with an ethnic background even close to mine. And if I do, whose to say I won’t hate them? I suppose I’ll never marry or procreate because the extreme fundies told me so. :rolleyes: I’ll marry whomever I may love, and want to spend the rest of life with, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/33 "2002-12-15T08:41:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\*Jesus himslef mixed race. He would be considered black by us standards. \*\* I don’t know about the black thing, but hey, Christians say he was “fully God and fully man.” How much more interracial can you get? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/34 "2002-12-15T10:24:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mademoiselle \* > \*\*I’ll marry whomever I may love, and want to spend the rest of life with, thank you. \*\* Marital advice from Henry VIII’s wife Catherine Howard: “[I die a Queen, but I would rather die the wife of Culpeper](http://gen.culpepper.com/default.asp).” Cheers, Richard “Muffin” Culpeper 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/35 "2002-12-15T10:30:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mademoiselle \* > **I suppose I’ll never marry or procreate because the extreme fundies told me so. :rolleyes:** No, no…you _must_ procreate! That way, when God gets out of hand, your kids can smack him around until he straightens up. ---
**Author:** ![Sanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanders)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/36 "2002-12-22T04:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > when there was a need to put away a wife and remarry owing to lack of interfertility, the Pope could be counted on to grant an annulment Were any of these annulments for marriages that were clearly valid? I am very curious to see references. > [@](#): > > There was precedent in Germany and France for the local church to revoke the Pope’s authority over a given canon law issue and retain authority in the local Archbishop’s Court. Could you elaborate on the precedents you are referring to? As I understand, you are looking at this as evidence of recognized national churches. My suspicion is that these are only instances kings taking advantage of their temporal might to evade Church law. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/37 "2002-12-22T06:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually the Book of Ruth comes out in favor of interracial marriages. I’ve just quickly rescanned it, and Ruth is indeed a Moabite, not a Jew, and she is one of the direct ancestresses of David himself. Then again, there are some folks who would prefer not to be confused with the facts. This is not the only mention in the Bible about interracial marriage. Numbers 12:1 “Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite.” Weren’t the people from Cush black, and Moses, a Jew? When Miriam bitched about the marriage, God was ticked and smote her with leperosy. ---
**Author:** ![RobertTB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RobertTB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobertTB)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/38 "2002-12-22T06:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*This is not the only mention in the Bible about interracial marriage. > > Numbers 12:1 “Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite.” > > Weren’t the people from Cush black, and Moses, a Jew? When Miriam bitched about the marriage, God was ticked and smote her with leperosy. \*\* Cushites were from Ethiopia, methinks. That passage you quote gives me a case of the chuckles. It would be like me saying: “And Fred and Mary began to talk against Bob because of his burrito dinner, for he had a burrito for dinner” I dunno. Biblical grammar is damned funny at times, but thats what I get for this sense of humor… ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425/39 "2002-12-22T06:57:28Z")
**mademoiselle** , you seem to have committed the understandable error of applying two precious things to fundies that ordinarily do not exist within either them or their church (note case): 1. Logic 2. Reason Please see to it that this error is not repeated;) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-extreme-fundies-if-god-didnt-want-me-to-exist-then-why-do-i/142425.md?page=1)