# Okay, fine, Islam is this violent, evil religion. What do you want us to DO about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328 "2015-11-01T12:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/181 "2015-11-02T08:30:01Z")
So, we decide, against all reason, that Islam is inherently and irredeemably evil and violent. And now we need a tentative solution to the Muslim problem. And some modest proposals. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/182 "2015-11-02T09:18:12Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So there’s this thread on Reddit about [this Pew survey from 2010](http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf) that apparently means that 84% of Egyptians think death is the proper response to one who leaves Islam > [@](#): > > what do those people generally want to DO about their beliefs re: Islam? Mostly, I think they want to use a survey of Muslims in Egypt to justify their prejudice against Muslims in America. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/183 "2015-11-02T09:47:25Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > A [hijab](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cw_X8e8zUjQ/TQq79Mq_vCI/AAAAAAAAAGA/QMt38wtGHMw/s640/Woman+to+Proper+Hijab+12.jpg) is not just a headscarf, it covers the neck, ears, and all of the hair. Spare us your unlearned assertions. There is no single [definition of hidjab](https://www.google.com/search?q=iranian+hijab+style&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI3v-w-LrxyAIVQYcaCh1YVwqK)and [the styles](https://www.google.com/search?q=iranian+hijab+style&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI3v-w-LrxyAIVQYcaCh1YVwqK#tbm=isch&q=lebanese+hijab+style) of how it is worn are not defined by non muslim bigots and hate mongerers… the promoters of bigotted hatred do not decide for me what is oppressive or not. the entire discourse around the prophet and the faux concern over hidjab is nothing more than pretexts for name calling and acting out by the promoters of hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/184 "2015-11-02T09:58:02Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > there has never been (virtual) complete consensus for non violence, the way their is in Judiasim. This really is quite special… Well an art student, I now understand. Allessan will be very interested to know he and his brethren have a complete consensus on non violence. I suspect he will not agree (and I would agree with him). > [@Stringbean](#): > > I think you need moderate Muslims to stop tying themselves to the radicals and tacitly defending them. > > Examples exist in this very thread. Cite them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/185 "2015-11-02T10:09:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s a huge gap between elements of Christianity still being in government and a theocracy. Good but of course so it is with the Islam. Since there are only two countries in the Islamic world that come close to the term theocracy - allowing for the Saudis case - then what does the term mean… > [@](#): > > BTW, you’ll also notice that gay marriage is only legal in Christian countries. It’s not just Islamic countries that ban it, Hindu and Buddhist countries ban it too. so funny. As most of these laws were first written by the European christian colonizers of the hindu, the budhdhist and the muslim countries in the 19e and 20e centuries, when they were horrified by the lax attitudes of all three towards homosexuality, this was taken in the colonial reports as a sign of the degeneracy of the muslim (like the famous omani practices) or the hindu…) but now in just the past 5-10 years, the western countries have evolved and suddenly this now again we find the way the wind blows becomes the market of the eternal degeneracy of the other… ignorance of history, deliberate or accidental. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/186 "2015-11-02T10:56:00Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > A [hijab](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cw_X8e8zUjQ/TQq79Mq_vCI/AAAAAAAAAGA/QMt38wtGHMw/s640/Woman+to+Proper+Hijab+12.jpg) is not just a headscarf, it covers the neck, ears, and all of the hair. A [duppata](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3c/ea/9c/3cea9c2971a9587c1c348f7498dd1951.jpg) is often used as a headscarf. > > You make some great points about the problems with social pressure having unintended consequences. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3hwpt9/why_i_believe_the_hijab_is_sexist_discriminatory/) is a different opinion concerning the negative effects of hijab on muslim women. As long as we are freeing women from hijab, can we free us from having to wear a shirt when it’s hot out? Also, pantyhose? Have you ever heard of anything as stupid as pantyhose? My legs are unprofessional, so when I go to a job interview I have to put fake legs over my real legs. Bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/187 "2015-11-02T11:25:58Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Wtf? Seriously? > > Mo was a slave owning pedophile rapist warlord. A prohibition against responding as such to comments that minimize his atrocities by referring to them as “hobbies” hamstrings the discussion. You might add well just ban outright any discussion critical of Islam. > [@adaher](#): > > Thirded. The statement was offensive but factual. Maybe you thought he was referring to Muslims in general? Taking shots at Muhammed on SDMB shouldn’t be any more offensive than taking shots at Jesus or Buddha or Moses. This thread is based on the premise that Islam is evil and violent. For the purpose of this thread, it is a given. Repeating that claim, over and over, does nothing to address the actual topic of the thread while standing as an open invitation for other posters to attempt to refute the claims, hijacking the thread. There is still another thread open on the first page of GD where such assertions are allowed and one is always able to open a new thread to hammer the point home. The ban on that particular assertion/discussion in this thread only is intended to keep the thread on track. This was pointed out [when the Mod note was laid down](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18823145#post18823145) forbidding the continuation of that hijack. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/188 "2015-11-02T11:38:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This thread is based on the premise that Islam is evil and violent. For the purpose of this thread, it is a given. > Repeating that claim, over and over, does nothing to address the actual topic of the thread while standing as an open invitation for other posters to attempt to refute the claims, hijacking the thread. > > There is still another thread open on the first page of GD where such assertions are allowed and one is always able to open a new thread to hammer the point home. The ban on that particular assertion/discussion in this thread only is intended to keep the thread on track. This was pointed out [when the Mod note was laid down](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18823145#post18823145) forbidding the continuation of that hijack. > > [/Moderating] Threads get “hijacked” all the time. The only time I’ve ever seen you shut down discussion was when religion was being cast in a negative light. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/189 "2015-11-02T11:55:19Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Threads get “hijacked” all the time. The only time I’ve ever seen you shut down discussion was when religion was being cast in a negative light. Uh, you do understand that it’s being shut down because in this thread, **your side has already won** , right? He’s not saying, “Let’s just assume Islam is okay here, and no debate to the contrary.” He’s saying the complete opposite of that. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/190 "2015-11-02T11:59:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Uh, you do understand that it’s being shut down because in this thread, **your side has already won** , right? He’s not saying, “Let’s just assume Islam is okay here, and no debate to the contrary.” He’s saying the complete opposite of that. > [@](#): > > **Tom** > Enough with the hijack, Robert163. Address the actual OP or stay out of the thread. > > Similarly, anyone who feels the need to rebut Robert163, take it to another thread. > > The OP presumes that Islam is evil/violent and we are not going to hijack the thread to discuss whether or not it is true. > > If that is the given, what should our response be? > > [/Moderating] So, if we “take it for granted” that Islam is evil, how are we supposed to talk about how to remedy that if we are not allowed to talk about what made it evil? ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/191 "2015-11-02T12:05:46Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The vast majority of Muslims now would consider someone to have left Islam who expressed such negative and derisive views of the Prophet, and who claimed that the Koran had no value. Al-Khawarizmi sure wasn’t treated as a non-Muslim during his lifetime, so how do you explain that little discrepancy? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/192 "2015-11-02T12:12:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Uh, you do understand that it’s being shut down because in this thread, **your side has already won** , right? He’s not saying, “Let’s just assume Islam is okay here, and no debate to the contrary.” He’s saying the complete opposite of that. all that crowd wants to do is to chant _ **evil evil evil evil evil evil,** _ so of course it is hard for them to accept moving beyond the chanting and the heaping of abuse and insulting for the sake of itself. of course some desire more than that, but are shy to say their final solutions. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/193 "2015-11-02T12:28:49Z")
Well, I don’t accept that Islam is inherently evil. I come from a religion(Judaism) that endorses some pretty horrible things in the Old Testament. What is evil are every single damn one of the Muslim governments, as well as a pretty solid portion of the political leaders who don’t run governments, such as Nasrallah of Hezbollah. Nearly all of the governments and leadership endorse violence against non-Muslims and subjugation of women. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/194 "2015-11-02T12:33:50Z")
As for what we should do, the FIRST thing we should do is refuse to appease the violent elements by watching what we say and do. That pastor who was going to burn a Koran may have been a dick, but he wasn’t a dick worthy of Presidential urgings not to burn a Koran. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/195 "2015-11-02T12:34:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What is evil are every single damn one of the Muslim governments, What is the evil inherent in the governments of the senegal? the mali the indonesia the malaysia the turkey the tunisia the niger the azerbaijan the albania Please be specific. you have said every single one ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/196 "2015-11-02T12:49:04Z")
Look up any one of those countries on Amnesty International’s site. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/197 "2015-11-02T12:58:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Look up any one of those countries on Amnesty International’s site. Can I look up the US as well? Or is that “different”? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/198 "2015-11-02T13:00:48Z")
Again, you are asserting a wide knowledge… what is \*\*evil \*\*(and _ **Muslimly** _ evil) about these governments? I can look up and find Amnesty criticizing the rights abuses and racial discrimination in the USA, but that does not tell me the christians or the USA has an evil government… (of course we can easily conclude that the radical discourse is simply masturbation based on the ad hoc steretypes of muslims = the Saudi and the Iran) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/199 "2015-11-02T13:16:36Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Can I look up the US as well? Or is that “different”? Feel absolutely free to compare. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/200 "2015-11-02T14:26:22Z")
Donc we know then you don’t really know about “[w]hat is evil are every single damn one of the Muslim governments” and this is more of the blustering assertions from a well poisoned by hatred. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328.md?page=11)