# Okay, fine, Islam is this violent, evil religion. What do you want us to DO about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328 "2015-11-01T12:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/141 "2015-11-02T04:30:35Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > How many less snake handlers are there now than there were 50 years ago? 100? So I’d say that yes, mocking is going to help. I didn’t say it would change the mind of die hard believers. Just ostracize them and therefor, their influence. Has religious influence been marginalized in our country due to ridicule? And how pathetic to claim snake handling ostracization as a success story. Are there any other hillbilly sects slain by the sword of self-righteous taunting you’ve forgotten? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/142 "2015-11-02T04:32:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > This discussion of possible avenues to undermine the political power of religion (and not just Islam - similar tactics could be adapted to other theocratic influences on government) is being unfortunately waylaid by the personal hobbies of someone who died 1400 years ago. What difference does it make? > > Rhetorical question - I don’t care what difference it makes. I admit I am on a soapbox and domineering a one track agenda. I said I would try to do better and I failed at that. At the same time, we will not “reform” radical Islam if we are not able to be honest about the problematic nature of the Koran and Mohammed. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/143 "2015-11-02T04:34:47Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > And yet, not only do Muslims both nowadays and back the still consider him to be a Muslim, al-Khawarizmi was able to publish the above right in the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate, and yet still managed to stay not just alive, but a scholar at the Bayt al-Hikma until his death 30 years later, at the age of 70. The vast majority of Muslims now would consider someone to have left Islam who expressed such negative and derisive views of the Prophet, and who claimed that the Koran had no value. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/144 "2015-11-02T04:35:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Slavery, murder, theft, and rape are more than “hobbies”. That’ll earn you a warning. Tom specifically told you to lay off. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/145 "2015-11-02T04:41:17Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I admit I am on a soapbox and domineering a one track agenda. I said I would try to do better and I failed at that. > > At the same time, we will not “reform” radical Islam if we are not able to be honest about the problematic nature of the Koran and Mohammed. What if we don’t want to “reform” it, just neutralize its more radical and politically influential expressions? We can do that without caring even slightly about the specifics of the Koran of the life of Mohammed. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/146 "2015-11-02T04:43:11Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Has religious influence been marginalized in our country due to ridicule? And how pathetic to claim snake handling ostracization as a success story. Are there any other hillbilly sects slain by the sword of self-righteous taunting you’ve forgotten? You don’t see people pray before a meal when out in public the way you did 20 or 30 years ago. It was uncommon then. It virtually never happens now. People no longer start of a meeting with a small “non denominational” prayer the way they used to. People no longer tell me to “pray about it” when I am having a bad day, the way they used to. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/147 "2015-11-02T04:45:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if we don’t want to “reform” it, just neutralize its more radical and politically influential expressions? We can do that without caring even slightly about the specifics of the Koran of the life of Mohammed. I am going to await moderator instruction before I respond to your comment. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/148 "2015-11-02T04:45:59Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You don’t see people pray before a meal when out in public the way you did 20 or 30 years ago. It was uncommon then. It virtually never happens now. > > People no longer start of a meeting with a small “non denominational” prayer the way they used to. > > People no longer tell me to “pray about it” when I am having a bad day, the way they used to. And you assert that this is because of ridicule and mockery? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/149 "2015-11-02T04:47:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > At the same time, we will not “reform” radical Islam if we are not able to be honest about the problematic nature of the Koran and Mohammed. It’s a good thing you’ve never read the Bible and all the horrible things the God of the Old Testiment did. Cause damn, you would feel foolish instead of just appearing so. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/150 "2015-11-02T04:48:36Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And you assert that this is because of ridicule and mockery? Ridicule and mockery is a bit strong, a bit too much. But negative social pressure is certainly involved in curtailing such activities. Not the whole reason it stopped but a large part of it for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/151 "2015-11-02T04:48:40Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Has religious influence been marginalized in our country due to ridicule? [Yes](http://warprayer.org) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/152 "2015-11-02T04:49:56Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It’s a good thing you’ve never read the Bible and all the horrible things the God of the Old Testament did. Cause damn, you would feel foolish instead of just appearing so. I have read the OT. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/153 "2015-11-02T04:54:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You don’t see people pray before a meal when out in public the way you did 20 or 30 years ago. It was uncommon then. It virtually never happens now. > > People no longer start of a meeting with a small “non denominational” prayer the way they used to. > > People no longer tell me to “pray about it” when I am having a bad day, the way they used to. I cannot comment on your personal interactions. Care to cite actual evidence ridiculing changes minds, because it is a fact 20 or 30 years ago no presidential candidate was courting the radical religious in our country as they are today. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/154 "2015-11-02T04:54:32Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I’m not expecting to change their mind. As you say, that won’t happen. But we can shame and embarrass them into keeping their mouth shut. Then they die off and the next generation is free of their influence. Why do you think they’ll be more prone to shame and embarrassment than you are? After all, your posts show no shame or embarrassment when you are corrected on your assertions as to what are facts. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/155 "2015-11-02T04:55:11Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > [Yes](http://warprayer.org) Good thing religious practice decreased after Mark Twain’s time. Oh, wait. Seriously guys, help me out. Give me some evidence, any evidence, that mockery of Christianity reduces the number of Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/156 "2015-11-02T04:57:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I have read the OT. So…it’s a problem that needs to be addressed, right? I mean, we cannot abide Christians until they disavow completely and unequivocally many passages in their fundamental text. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/157 "2015-11-02T05:00:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’ll earn you a warning. Tom specifically told you to lay off. Wtf? Seriously? Mo was a slave owning pedophile rapist warlord. A prohibition against responding as such to comments that minimize his atrocities by referring to them as “hobbies” hamstrings the discussion. You might add well just ban outright any discussion critical of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/158 "2015-11-02T05:00:23Z")
We cannot abide Christians until they stop murdering people for their faith. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/159 "2015-11-02T05:01:28Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Wtf? Seriously? > > Mo was a slave owning pedophile rapist warlord. A prohibition against responding as such to comments that minimize his atrocities by referring to them as “hobbies” hamstrings the discussion. You might add well just ban outright any discussion critical of Islam. Thirded. The statement was offensive but factual. Maybe you thought he was referring to Muslims in general? Taking shots at Muhammed on SDMB shouldn’t be any more offensive than taking shots at Jesus or Buddha or Moses. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328/160 "2015-11-02T05:01:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Good thing religious practice decreased after Mark Twain’s time. > > Oh, wait. > Seriously guys, help me out. Give me some evidence, any evidence, that mockery of Christianity reduces the number of Christians. I don’t think mockery helps anything. I think mockery is a position a lot of frustrated Atheists and non religious people take after years and years of attempting to have reasoned discussions that go nowhere and have no (immediate) effect. I do think think, however, that a certain level of criticism and negative social enforcement of more extreme religious expression has helped to keep such expression at bay, and thus, helped less and less of the next generation from adopting such traits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-fine-islam-is-this-violent-evil-religion-what-do-you-want-us-to-do-about-it/736328.md?page=9)