# Okay for a 14 year old boy and 23 year old woman to have sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804 "2004-06-30T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/201 "2004-07-01T20:17:12Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > But it seems to me that some here are suggesting that such a matter should never even come before the courts, because there’s no way the boy could possibly have been hurt or unwilling. I think that’s ridiculous. I agree. It is certainly possible for a teenager to be taken advantage of, no matter how chock full of hormones he might be. But unless I’m missing something, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that that’s the case here. > [@vanilla](#): > > So now we need to lobby for 14 year olds to vote and drink too. Its only fair, why be biased just about somethig as totally unaffecting and unimportant as sex? eh? > Driving too. Why not? Sure, why not? Why should someone who can drive safely be denied a driver’s license just because he hasn’t gone around the sun 16 times yet? Feel free to start a new thread if you would like to discuss youth rights in general. > [@JThunder](#): > > Rather, since there is good reason to believe that genuine damage would occur at that young age, one must first demonstrate the safety of such activity. Well, according to the study I quoted earlier, it seems very unlikely that he would be damaged in any way by consensual sex. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/202 "2004-07-01T21:46:10Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Sorry if this has been hit before… It’s bedtime and I didn’t read the whole thread, but a skim did not see this point: > In the age of contraception, sex between two disease free people of any age is bad only in those cases where society teaches us it is bad. Sex is fun. Sex makes people feel good. > > A 14 year old having sex with a 23 year old is only seen as wrong because our society conditions us to see it as wrong. Abusive use of power in a relationship? Purely a societal norm. If there were less emphasis put on the “power” of sex, then sex would have no power. If sex were treated like a handshake, our society would be much healthier. It’s not about the power of sex, but the power of her position. She’s his teacher. You don’t see a conflict of interest here? Even in college, when students and teachers are often the same age, it’s generally forbidden. At the very LEAST, how could the teacher be objective in grading the individual? Perhaps she might manipulate her students, “Sleep with me or I’ll fail you.” **Aeschines** , the adultery angle-that’s between her and her husband. You know, when I was sixteen, I was majorly lusting over my math teacher. I fantasized about him all the time. Does that mean that it would have been a GOOD thing if he had tried to put a move on me? Absolutely not! Even if he wanted, even if he enjoyed it-it was NOT what I’d call a good experience. There’s too much potential for harm. Even if it doesn’t occur this time. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/203 "2004-07-01T22:18:15Z")
Just out of curiosity, does anyone remember Mary Kay Letourneau? [http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal\_mind/psychology/marykay\_letourneau/1.html](http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/marykay_letourneau/1.html) And would anyone like to argue that relationship worked out well for anyone involved? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/204 "2004-07-01T22:28:55Z")
I have noticed that a lot of the guys posting on this topic have mentioned that if a sexy teacher had offered herself to them at that age, they would have considered it a gift from God. I feel I have to chime in about this with an altogether different perspective, that of a Fundamentalist (Church of Christ)-raised individual. I do believe that if I (and some of the guys I went to Church with) had been confronted with this situation, I just may have felt that God was testing my virtue! I can just picture visions of the “Joseph and Potiphar’s Wife” story springing into my mind, overcoming my attraction to the teacher (yes, I have seen pictures of her!) and causing me to run away screaming before Jehovah nailed me with a lightning bolt or had the gates of Hell open to engulf me! Feel free to laugh… I am giggling even as I am typing this! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/205 "2004-07-01T22:41:44Z")
Heh, that’s a good point **gytalf2000**. I might have been still religious at that point in my life and thought the same thing! Well, I would have thought it was Satan tempting me, not God. Satan in the form of a sexy blonde. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/206 "2004-07-01T23:22:40Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Just out of curiosity, does anyone remember Mary Kay Letourneau? > > [http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal\_mind/psychology/marykay\_letourneau/1.html](http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/marykay_letourneau/1.html) > > And would anyone like to argue that relationship worked out well for anyone involved? Which part worked out poorly… the part where Ms. Letourneau was sent to jail? ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/207 "2004-07-02T00:18:44Z")
Mr2001 I really, really hope you’re joking. Those 2 poor kids have a mother who is a child molester. She’s not even raising them; their father and their grandmother are. What a great childhood, knowing your mother nailed a 13 year old kid and knowing that the whole country knows what a sick freak she is. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/208 "2004-07-02T00:38:55Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Mr2001 I really, really hope you’re joking. > > Those 2 poor kids have a mother who is a child molester. She’s not even raising them; their father and their grandmother are. What a great childhood, knowing your mother nailed a 13 year old kid and knowing that the whole country knows what a sick freak she is. A child molestor? Please. > [@](#): > > When the case broke, Vili maintained that he was not the “victim” he is routinely called and was not traumatized by anything that happened with Mary Kay. His mother, who disapproves of their sexual relationship, also said her son is no victim and thought the case should never have been prosecuted. However, some children definitely were traumatized by the Letourneau case. Among them were Mary Kay’s four children who were suddenly ripped away from their mother and who heard her described as a “child rapist.” Other youngsters upset by the matter were those who had been in her class. They lost the teacher they adored and were confused by hearing at least some of the tawdry facts of her life. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/209 "2004-07-02T00:54:11Z")
You’re actually defending teachers who have sex with their students? What if the teacher were male and the student female? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/210 "2004-07-02T00:58:23Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > You’re actually defending teachers who have sex with their students? Well, as I said of the woman in the OP, she probably shouldn’t be teaching anymore. But it doesn’t seem that the kid was coerced. > [@](#): > > What if the teacher were male and the student female? Why would that make a difference? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/211 "2004-07-02T01:04:50Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Mr2001 I really, really hope you’re joking. > > Those 2 poor kids have a mother who is a child molester. She’s not even raising them; their father and their grandmother are. What a great childhood, knowing your mother nailed a 13 year old kid and knowing that the whole country knows what a sick freak she is. So isn’t the real damage caused by the societal scorn of the relationship, the branding of her as a child molester, rather than just the relationship itself? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/212 "2004-07-02T01:10:12Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Why would that make a difference? How do you define “child molester”? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/213 "2004-07-02T01:33:01Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > How do you define “child molester”? Someone who makes sexual advances toward a youth who is unwilling or unable to consent. (“Consent” being defined according to common sense, rather than any legal age limits.) (Looks like I’ve been misspelling molester. Oh, how far I’ve fallen since I was a spelling bee champion…) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/214 "2004-07-02T01:41:51Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Someone who makes sexual advances toward a youth who is unwilling or unable to consent. (“Consent” being defined according to common sense, rather than any legal age limits.) So basically, nothing is abuse unless the child says “no”? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/215 "2004-07-02T01:45:21Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > So basically, nothing is abuse unless the child says “no”? Or unless he’s incapacitated or drugged, or so ignorant about sex that his consent is meaningless. Same standard as I’d apply to anyone else, regardless of age. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/216 "2004-07-02T01:54:13Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Or unless he’s incapacitated or drugged, or so ignorant about sex that his consent is meaningless. Same standard as I’d apply to anyone else, regardless of age. All I have to say to that is that children aren’t capable of deciding what kind of cereal they want, much less who to take as a sexual partner, and that they have a nasty tendancy to do as adults tell them. What you propose is reckless endangerment of kids at the hands of abusers, rapists, and molesters in the name of some cheap kicks for a few. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/217 "2004-07-02T02:09:17Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > All I have to say to that is that children aren’t capable of deciding what kind of cereal they want, much less who to take as a sexual partner, and that they have a nasty tendancy to do as adults tell them. Now hold on… what age range do you mean by “children”? I would submit that the vast majority of kids under age 12 or 13 are physically unready for sex, and are probably so ignorant about sex that their consent is meaningless anyway. > [@](#): > > What you propose is reckless endangerment of kids at the hands of abusers, rapists, and molesters in the name of some cheap kicks for a few. Nonsense. What I propose is allowing minors to make their own decisions about their own bodies. I do not condone abuse or coercion. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/218 "2004-07-02T02:18:26Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Now hold on… what age range do you mean by “children”? I would submit that the vast majority of kids under age 12 or 13 are physically unready for sex, and are probably so ignorant about sex that their consent is meaningless anyway. Kinsey would disagree. So, you are proposing a legal limit at around age 12? > [@](#): > > Nonsense. What I propose is allowing minors to make their own decisions about their own bodies. I do not condone abuse or coercion. So you don’t have a problem with the Catholic priests feeling up altar boys? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/219 "2004-07-02T02:21:39Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Kinsey would disagree. I’m not familiar with his work. > [@](#): > > So, you are proposing a legal limit at around age 12? No. I do not support legal age restrictions. > [@](#): > > So you don’t have a problem with the Catholic priests feeling up altar boys? Do these altar boys consent to being felt up? Are they coerced or tricked into going along with it? Are they intimidated by the priest’s position of power over them? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/220 "2004-07-02T02:24:00Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > I’m not familiar with his work. You’ve not read Kinsey, and you’re talking about sex psychology? O\_o > [@](#): > > No. I do not support legal age restrictions. So what would prevent grandpa from feeling up his 4 year old granddaughter? > [@](#): > > Do these altar boys consent to being felt up? Are they coerced or tricked into going along with it? Are they intimidated by the priest’s position of power over them? They didn’t say no, which by your rules make it OK. O\_o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=12)