# Okay for a 14 year old boy and 23 year old woman to have sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804 "2004-06-30T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/281 "2004-07-03T02:33:07Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Until you answer it? I’m sorry you didn’t understand the answer. Let me try again. People who receive adult rights should also receive adult responsibilities. If you have a kid who votes, signs contracts, buys tobacco, has sex, and then assaults someone, then he should be subject to the same legal penalties as any adult. If you have a kid who is deemed incapable of voting, signing contracts, etc. who gets in a fight, then he should not be subject to the same penalties. The difference between those two kids is not their age, but their individual development and abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/282 "2004-07-03T02:39:59Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > I’m sorry you didn’t understand the answer. Let me try again. > > People who receive adult rights should also receive adult responsibilities. If you have a kid who votes, signs contracts, buys tobacco, has sex, and then assaults someone, then he should be subject to the same legal penalties as any adult. If you have a kid who is deemed incapable of voting, signing contracts, etc. who gets in a fight, then he should not be subject to the same penalties. The difference between those two kids is not their age, but their individual development and abilities. So, you want some kind of Mark of Maturity that gets assigned exactly when the individual reaches the level of “being capable”? How, exactly, in the nine bloody hells do you decide when this is for each person? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/283 "2004-07-03T02:48:59Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > So, you want some kind of Mark of Maturity that gets assigned exactly when the individual reaches the level of “being capable”? > > How, exactly, in the nine bloody hells do you decide when this is for each person? What I’m not sure I understand is why you think there needs to be some universal criteria which, frankly, if you are as well read as you imply, you should know is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/284 "2004-07-03T02:52:15Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > What I’m not sure I understand is why you think there needs to be some universal criteria which, frankly, if you are as well read as you imply, you should know is impossible. It isn’t my theory O\_o I think age is a perfectly acceptable, though not ideal, method of doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/285 "2004-07-03T03:25:11Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > So you’re saying that if society _expected_ them to be able to hold a job and support a (hypothetical) unexpected baby, that many of them might be able to do it? (And attend school as well?) Okay, that’s possible. We’d have to repeal labor laws in order to find out, I suppose. > > Or, are you saying that _if_ a 12-year-old, or 14-year-old has definitely proven that they are capable of holding down a job (enough to support an unexpected child), _and_ they are “emotionally ready” to have sex, then they should be able to have sex legally? > > In my opinion, if a kid could really, legitimately, be able to hold down a job—enough of one to support his or her child—and do it without help from mommy and daddy (and without expecting mommy and daddy to offer free room and board for their baby, free babysitting for their baby, or financial help in _any way_ for the baby) then, _damn._ The kid’s old enough to have sex (providing they are emotionally ready as well). > > How many 12, 13, 14-year-old kids do you think would possibly be capable of this level of responsibility? I am not sure myself of the answers, but I do know that the current system’s not working. Kids are going to have sex, some of which will be with overage people. The penalties are wayyyy to harsh for something that’s factually consentual, and as people freely admit here, would be punished biased on gender. w/r/t working, I have the same answer: namely, none. Our society currently values education, so it’s not like I propose that we do not give a full effort to educate our teens. But conversely, our society also does not value the ability of _some_ teens to hold a job, or make social decisions (i.e. vote), or have sex. I don’t know the answer. Well, one answer would be to lower the age of consent to 12, or decriminalizing statutory while focusing investigations on those that are likely to be forcible rapes rather than statutory. Why 12 and not lower? Well, there may be little evidence that factually consentual relations will inevitably _harm_ those under 12, it certainly is rarely if ever a positive relationship. Whereas, from anecdotal evidence, I recall very few consentual relationships of 12 or over that _do_ result in this harm. But on the other hand, perhaps this will lead to those in power over teens to increase their predation, even if we keep in place the illegality of those particular relationships…who knows? All I know in the end is that the current system and societal biases SUCK. I haven’t lived in other times and cultures so I don’t know the downfalls of the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/286 "2004-07-03T03:31:16Z")
Would it kill these adults to wait til the minor is old enough? If so, they are then not mature enough for sex eh? ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/287 "2004-07-03T03:40:50Z")
I agree, let’s completely abandon our puritanical views. I am so tired of this double standard that applies to women, whereby they are automatically innocent and can show no sexuality. It’s ridiculous. The (young) Women are just as, if not more wanting in some instances of adult-minor relationships. Drop the statuatory rape statutes. If it wasn’t consentual then it should be prosecuted. But since when is it a criminal offense to have consentual sex? I agree that the age of consent should remain at 12 or maybe even 13, because most children under that age have no sexual education. However, after the age of 13, most if not all kids have a basic premise of sex and what it entails. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/288 "2004-07-03T03:45:24Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > So, you want some kind of Mark of Maturity that gets assigned exactly when the individual reaches the level of “being capable”? > > How, exactly, in the nine bloody hells do you decide when this is for each person? Well, we’ve already discussed how to do it for sex. Similar criteria could be proposed for other rights - voting, driving, etc. - each of which comes with corresponding responsibilities. I admit it’s not a trivial task to come up with those criteria. The debates over the criteria for each right could probably fill their own threads. But it could be done, since age is just a surrogate for some subjective, unwritten version of those criteria, and I think it’s worth it to avoid needless discrimination. > [@vanilla](#): > > Would it kill these adults to wait til the minor is old enough? > If so, they are then not mature enough for sex eh? What incredible logic. Let’s strip away all the rights we can as long as it doesn’t kill anyone! ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/289 "2004-07-03T03:52:23Z")
Nice way to miss my point COMPLETELY. Read. Thinks. If the adult Cannot wait, they are not mature enough. Eh? ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/290 "2004-07-03T03:52:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Would it kill these adults to wait til the minor is old enough? If so, they are then not mature enough for sex eh? The worst logic applied to any debate. The problem is that we are abridging the rights of both people here, to fulfill the abitrary demands of a third party. I thought this was the land of the free… But I guess I was mistaken… Why should anyone have to wait? Oh, vanilla you can’t have sex for three years, because you haven’t reached some completely bullshit age requirement. I don’t think you’d take too kindly to that would you? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/291 "2004-07-03T04:08:04Z")
If I were a minor, I would be a okay with that law. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/292 "2004-07-03T04:11:16Z")
Hard as it may be to believe, some people can wait. My first sex was age 26. I lived. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/293 "2004-07-03T04:13:14Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > So where do you draw the line where a kid can say “yes”? > > Who decides this? Again, are you speaking for some sort of sex license? > So your sample of half a dozen kids is authorative, even though it is inconclusive? To clarify my position, I think age based rights are stupid, and would do away with them wherever possible. Society chooses an arbitrary number almost exclusively for political reasons. Why do we require kids to wait until they are 16 to drive? Driving ability and knowledge of the law etc is something that can EASILY be tested. If you do not think that 15 year olds should be able to drive, then make the test comprehensive enough such that 15 year olds always fail the test. But then be prepared to prevent some 20 year olds and 60 year olds from getting a license also. A sex license? Why not? Prove knowledge of birth control, receive a training class in recognizing predatory behavior, prove knowledge of disease and the risks associated, etc. Get blod tested regularly to screen for disease as a yearly requirement to maintain your license. Just another line at the DMV. Permanent license issued on marriage. Sex with an unlicensed person would be statutory rape. That would also protect clueless 18 and 20 year olds, of which there are many. As a matter of priciple, I believe that everything that can be legal, should be legal. I am als oin favor of responsibilities and checks and balances. By the way, just how much more statistically significant do you think that your 600 sample is than his sample of 6? I’d say not a lot, as a data point does not come into your count unless it meets certain conditions (Boy Scout, camper, whatever else went into it.) Tha makes it non-random. ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/294 "2004-07-03T04:15:02Z")
Just goes to show how completely out of touch you are with today’s youth. You would not believe how many teens want to date someone over the age of 18, but cannot because of the statuatory rape laws. In fact, I have a friend who completely consented to sex (she was a minor) with an adult. She openly admitted this to the police, but it was completely discarded and the man’s life is now completely ruined. He is a registered sex offender due to statuatory rape laws. He committed no wrong, she consented, and this is a girl who was engaging in sex with her peers. How is that fair again? Really? I fail to see how that shares even a remote semblance to justice… ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/295 "2004-07-03T04:20:49Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Hard as it may be to believe, some people can wait. > My first sex was age 26. > I lived. So you were deprived for many years from an enjoyable part of life and you lived. Great logic to be the basis of laws. However I do agree with your previous point. Given todays laws, adults who cannot wait a couple of years to have sex with a person who is now a minor are directly proving that they are not mature enough to be issued a sex license. Or be a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/296 "2004-07-03T04:25:34Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Hard as it may be to believe, some people can wait. > My first sex was age 26. > I lived. Mute people also live. So I guess freedom of speech is next? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/297 "2004-07-03T04:26:22Z")
deprived? LOL I was happy about it, not deprived. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/298 "2004-07-03T04:26:30Z")
> [@alien21010](#): > > Just goes to show how completely out of touch you are with today’s youth. You would not believe how many teens want to date someone over the age of 18, but cannot because of the statuatory rape laws. > > In fact, I have a friend who completely consented to sex (she was a minor) with an adult. She openly admitted this to the police, but it was completely discarded and the man’s life is now completely ruined. He is a registered sex offender due to statuatory rape laws. He committed no wrong, she consented, and this is a girl who was engaging in sex with her peers. How is that fair again? Really? I fail to see how that shares even a remote semblance to justice… He was a man who knowingly broke a law. Even if one thinks the law is stupid, breaking it shows that one is an idiot. Could he not have dated her without sex? Oh, and teens have been wanting to date older people for far longer than the current generation. Of course, within his (or her) own peer group the older person dating the teen used to be looked upon as a loser who couldn’t get a grown up date. is this still the case? ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/299 "2004-07-03T04:27:52Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > deprived? > LOL > > I was happy about it, not deprived. Happy? Why? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/300 "2004-07-03T04:30:45Z")
Lets see. No worries about being an unwed mother, something I was much against. What was my hurry anyway? I had my whole life. When I was 14, I was not mature enough and happy not to have picked a on decent guy. People can wait for sex you know! I have gone 10 years this August. Without a husband, I see no need for sex. I believe sex outside of marriage is not only wrong but a stupid idea. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=16)