# Okay for a 14 year old boy and 23 year old woman to have sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804 "2004-06-30T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/301 "2004-07-03T04:32:16Z")
that would read Not-decent guy. ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/302 "2004-07-03T04:38:04Z")
> [@](#): > > He was a man who knowingly broke a law. Even if one thinks the law is stupid, breaking it shows that one is an idiot. Could he not have dated her without sex? Oh, and teens have been wanting to date older people for far longer than the current generation. Of course, within his (or her) own peer group the older person dating the teen used to be looked upon as a loser who couldn’t get a grown up date. is this still the case? I agree completely. The guy was a moron granted the current state of the laws. However, that is not the debate. The debate is to whether or not the laws should change to reflect the true nature of relationships and society. The licensing concept could work… But then you have issues of issuing said licenses to people, and then the cost. Really, it’s one of those ideas that’s great in concept, and most likely poor in execution. Although it definitely works far better than our current legislation. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/303 "2004-07-03T04:38:34Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Lets see. > No worries about being an unwed mother, something I was much against. > > What was my hurry anyway? > I had my whole life. > When I was 14, I was not mature enough and happy not to have picked a on decent guy. > > People can wait for sex you know! > I have gone 10 years this August. > Without a husband, I see no need for sex. > I believe sex outside of marriage is not only wrong but a stupid idea. > YMMV. Ah. My mileage certainly did vary. For most of my friends there is an inverse correlation between sex and marriage. No need for sex? Sure, I also have no need for ice cream cones or comfy chairs. But they enhance my enjoyment of life. Without a wife, I would still want to have sex. It is a fun way to pass the time, not an intense emotional commitment. Would it be rude to assume that there is a religious factor at play here? ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/304 "2004-07-03T04:43:05Z")
> [@alien21010](#): > > I agree completely. The guy was a moron granted the current state of the laws. However, that is not the debate. The debate is to whether or not the laws should change to reflect the true nature of relationships and society. > > The licensing concept could work… But then you have issues of issuing said licenses to people, and then the cost. Really, it’s one of those ideas that’s great in concept, and most likely poor in execution. Although it definitely works far better than our current legislation. I also think that all people should be put on birth control as soon as they hit puberty, and you are only allowed to go off it and have childen once you are licensed via a test, a psychological evaluation, and a training class. People call me “Insane BoringDad” for that viewpoint, but I got better instructions with my new table saw than we got when we brought home our first child. Too many people have a kid and take it home without a clue what to do with it. And the kids suffer for it. ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/305 "2004-07-03T04:58:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I also think that all people should be put on birth control as soon as they hit puberty, and you are only allowed to go off it and have childen once you are licensed via a test, a psychological evaluation, and a training class. People call me “Insane BoringDad” for that viewpoint, but I got better instructions with my new table saw than we got when we brought home our first child. Too many people have a kid and take it home without a clue what to do with it. And the kids suffer for it. Couldn’t hurt. It would prevent teen pregnancy, but then again you need a form of birth control that you take once and forget it, or something annual. No such form exists to date. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/306 "2004-07-03T05:38:46Z")
Need I remind you all playing NAMBLA dreamland that this thread is not about teens having sex, it is about adults having sex with teens. No, ya know what? Have your country where sexual predators can screw all the little kids they want. Hell, let them get married at age 6. I won’t care, I’ll be on another continent. ---
**Author:** ![alien21010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@alien21010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alien21010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/307 "2004-07-03T08:11:28Z")
Oh I see… Rational thought automatically labels oneself as a sexual predator? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/308 "2004-07-03T10:54:39Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Have your country where sexual predators can screw all the little kids they want. Isn’t it funny how all the strawman arguments in this thread seem to be coming from the same person? ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/309 "2004-07-03T13:10:51Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Need I remind you all playing NAMBLA dreamland that this thread is not about teens having sex, it is about adults having sex with teens. > > No, ya know what? Have your country where sexual predators can screw all the little kids they want. Hell, let them get married at age 6. I won’t care, I’ll be on another continent. Seems to me to me the first issue is when a person is competent to consent to sex. Is it automatically more traumatic if a 14 year old has coerced sex with a 23 year old than it is if a 14 year old has coerced sex with a 17 year old? Both are bad. The second issue is what constitutes coercion or force. My world doesn’t allow sexual predators, but it does require the law to _prove_ that the sex was predatory. Oh, and if you go to another continent? Unless you pick that continent very carefully, odds are that you will be on a continent where 12 year olds get married. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/310 "2004-07-03T13:53:04Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Seems to me to me the first issue is when a person is competent to consent to sex. Is it automatically more traumatic if a 14 year old has coerced sex with a 23 year old than it is if a 14 year old has coerced sex with a 17 year old? Both are bad. You may or may not consider this an issue which should impact the law, but I think an important point to consider if we’re talking about the “okayness” of adult/teen relationships is what sort of 23 year old is likely to want to have sex with a 14 year old in the first place. Even if our hypothetical teen is uncoerced, mentally and emotionally competant to consent to sex, and would not be harmed by any normal sexual relationship, I can’t help but fear that the adult involved is bound to be a real weirdo. The woman in this case certainly doesn’t seem like a candidate for Miss Mental Health. Her adult husband has probably suffered deep emotional pain thanks to his involvement with her (she cheated on him with a kid because she got off on the thrill of the forbidden?), and I doubt her young lover would have emerged from the relationship unscathed even if the law hadn’t gotten involved. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/311 "2004-07-03T14:14:43Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > You may or may not consider this an issue which should impact the law, but I think an important point to consider if we’re talking about the “okayness” of adult/teen relationships is what sort of 23 year old is likely to want to have sex with a 14 year old in the first place. Even if our hypothetical teen is uncoerced, mentally and emotionally competant to consent to sex, and would not be harmed by any normal sexual relationship, I can’t help but fear that the adult involved is bound to be a real weirdo. 14, maybe, but 16? I assure you that, in my circle at least, I would place even money on enough willingness to go through with the act _if_ it were legal. Let me ask you a question. Without a plausible reason to conceal the activity (like, oh, _the law_), do you think that the activity would _less_ lend itself to abuse because of the transparency of the relationship, or more likely to lend itself to abuse because anyone can do it? > [@](#): > > I doubt her young lover would have emerged from the relationship unscathed even if the law hadn’t gotten involved. You emerge from relationships unscathed? Man, I envy you! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/312 "2004-07-03T14:41:06Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > 14, maybe, but 16? I assure you that, in my circle at least, I would place even money on enough willingness to go through with the act _if_ it were legal. The age of consent in most parts of the US is already 16, and I’d have no real objection if that were to become the universal age of consent. I’d still be suspicious of adults who preferred 16 year old sexual partners, but 16 is getting to be old enough to start sorting out the weirdos for yourself. 16 ain’t 14 though, and the OP is about a 14 year old. > [@](#): > > \*Let me ask you a question. Without a plausible reason to conceal the activity (like, oh, _the law_), do you think that the activity would _less_ lend itself to abuse because of the transparency of the relationship, or more likely to lend itself to abuse because anyone can do it? \*I’m sure that fear of a lengthy prison sentence is the only thing currently keeping many creepy, manipulative, and emotionally abusive adults from going after adolescents. If such relationships were legal they could take place out in the open where everyone would know about them, but there’d also be little anyone else could do about it since it would be, you know, perfectly legal. But a relationship being fundamentally unhealthy may not in and of itself be reason enough to make it illegal. (There is, after all, no law to protect adults from creepy, manipulative, and emotionally abusive partners.) It should, however, have an impact on whether we consider such a relationship to be _okay_. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/313 "2004-07-03T15:17:43Z")
To put another spin on it, people have been having underage sex for millions of years and the world hasn’t ended. I can play the “it doesn’t kill me so it must be okay” game too. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/314 "2004-07-03T19:18:33Z")
There are tons of extra pics and news reports here: [www.mjmorningshow.com](http://www.mjmorningshow.com) Scroll towards the bottom. There are also school yearbook photos. Just to add to the discussion a little: I taught in the same school district and even at [Greco Middle School](http://apps.sdhc.k12.fl.us/sdhc2/schoolsite/display2.asp) once or twice. Mainly I taught at high schools and middle schools. At 19 years old, it actually would have been legal for me to have sex with students who were at least 16. But, of course, it would have cost me my job. I was actually spurised at the amount of solicitations I received from students. Young students. As young as 14. They would smile and leave phone numbers on the desk as they walked out. Normally I would just think “Holy Crap!” and forget about it. Sometimes I’d have to explain how, while flattering, it was inappropriate and usually illegal. Keep in mind I was teaching high school kids as well. Kids between 15 and 19. And I was 19. But it just wasn’t allowed. People can debate all day long about the age issue. IMO, _this_ particular student is in no way traumatized by any of this. However, being in her position, it’s just wrong. But I’ve seen this a lot. I saw it when I was in high school, and I saw it while teaching. The temptation is definitely there. I can think of at least six student/teacher “relationships” off the top of my head. Some of them were uncovered and some of them weren’t. There’s one teacher who started actually dating a student right after graduation. I think they are still together or even married or something. There was a band director, who I knew personally. I absolutely could not believe it when he was arrested for sexual encounters with his drum major. That was all uncovered when the drum major decided to report it. Apparantly he wanted to date one of the flute players and the band director would not allow it. He said it would be innappropriate for the drum major to date someone in the band because he’s in a position of authority. Talk about your all time biggest hypocrisy!! But anyway, this really pissed the student off, so he went straight to the principal to report his relationship with the band director. Anyway, I don’t know where Im going with any of this. Just FYI, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Carm6773](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2bfe46/32.png) [@Carm6773](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carm6773)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/315 "2004-07-04T04:06:48Z")
Just answering some questions raised in the thread. Sorry if these have already been answered. 1. She did deflower him. 2. There was no use of a condom. She told him she is on Birth Control. 3. As far as I can tell, the sexual acts did not begin until after the school year was over. She was, however, one of his teachers, so she did have authority over him. 4. Right now, she is on administrative leave with pay (funny, considering we don’t get paid over the summer). I believe her misconduct hearing is on 7/13, after the School Board meeting. The meeting will be broadcast on local access TV, but not her hearing. She will more than likely lose her job and her teaching certificate. She will also not be able to obtain a certificate (which is basically a license to teach) in any other state either. In other words, she is SOL. Just some other side notes: 1. I am ashamed to admit I teach Reading at a middle school in Hillsborough County. 2 I am further ashamed to admit that I grew up and live less than 15 minutes from where she grew up and lives. My cousin teaches at her High School, which is the rival of my High School. 2. I think we are all forgetting who the true victim of this, and that is her Husband. Imagine the personal HELL that he is going through. PS to **Zag** –Judge not, lest you be judged. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/316 "2004-07-04T07:29:38Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > I’m sorry you didn’t understand the answer. Let me try again. > > People who receive adult rights should also receive adult responsibilities. If you have a kid who votes, signs contracts, buys tobacco, has sex, and then assaults someone, then he should be subject to the same legal penalties as any adult. If you have a kid who is deemed incapable of voting, signing contracts, etc. who gets in a fight, then he should not be subject to the same penalties. The difference between those two kids is not their age, but their individual development and abilities. So if a person has been proven to be too immature to be trusted, he shouldn’t be punished when he further proves his immaturity and responsibility? Let me see if I understand this. Kid A is deemed mature and responsible enough to vote and sign contracts. He then commits a crime, and is subject to penalty. That’s reasonable, although I don’t see a direct connection. And perhaps his privileges should be removed, since his criminal act has negated his supposed maturity and responsibility. Kid B is deemed not responsible or mature enough to vote or sign contracts. He then commits a crime, but is not subject to penalty. 😕 How is he ever going to **achieve** maturity and responsiblity, if he never has to face the consequences of his actions? I think you have it backwards. Rights follow responsibility, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/317 "2004-07-04T07:39:29Z")
**I think we are all forgetting who the true victim of this, and that is her Husband. Imagine the personal HELL that he is going through.** Oy. Poor guy. I wonder if he’s thrown her clothes on the lawn yet? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/318 "2004-07-04T12:02:55Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Kid B is deemed not responsible or mature enough to vote or sign contracts. He then commits a crime, but is not subject to penalty. 😕 I’m as confused about that as you are. I’m not saying that no penalties should apply to those who aren’t given adult rights; just that the courts should stick to juvenile sentencing guidelines for them. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/319 "2004-07-06T01:20:19Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > So if a person has been proven to be too immature to be trusted, he shouldn’t be punished when he further proves his immaturity and responsibility? Why should he be punished the same as an adult if he’s too immature to make informed decisions? ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/320 "2004-07-06T12:40:54Z")
Okay, me too. I tend to agree with much of the moralistic tsk-tsking. Yes, that teacher abused her trust and her profession, and that’s very wrong. Also agreed: people with authority over another person should, on both moral and legal grounds, refrain from all intimate acts – sexual or otherwise – with that person. But let’s keep things in rational perspective, shall we? I was greatly surprised when I read a few years ago of compelling scientific, well-designed, methodologically sound medical/psychological studies (I learned of this first in an article in the _Skeptical Inquirer_, not some NAMBLA pamphlet!) that show that consenting (in the personal rather than legal sense) adult/teen sexuality very seldom causes any psychological harm whatever, and is instead often seen and later remembered with real fondness. Some of you no doubt vehemently disagree, but that really is what the scientific evidence reveals. Westerners tend to hugely overstate the “dangers” of adult/teen sexuality. While the teacher’s actions were utterly reprehensible because of _who_ she was, _what_ she and the boy did is really no big deal (again, assuming it was personally consenting). The kid would be just fine if it were not for all the press and the involvement of the authorities. I write this chiefly to try to help lessen the horrible stigma and severe psychological damage done by parents, police, and other good people who stupidly over-react to such things and thereby make them immeasurably worse! Their “concern” almost always causes **far** more damage – usually irreparable, life-long damage – than the sexual activity ever would. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=17)