# Okay for a 14 year old boy and 23 year old woman to have sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804 "2004-06-30T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/41 "2004-06-30T03:31:59Z")
Try learnign something today. > [@](#): > > Myth #7 - If the perpetrator is female, the boy or adolescent should consider himself fortunate to have been initiated into heterosexual activity. > > In reality, premature or coerced sex, whether by a mother, aunt, older sister, baby-sitter or other female in a position of power over a boy, causes confusion at best, and rage, depression or other problems in more negative circumstances. To be used as a sexual object by a more powerful person, male or female, is always abusive and often damaging. > > Believing these myths is dangerous and damaging. > > ``` > * > > So long as society believes these myths, and teaches them to children from their earliest years, sexually abused males will be unlikely to get the recognition and help they need. > * > > So long as society believes these myths, sexually abused males will be more likely join the minority of survivors who perpetuate this suffering by abusing others. > * > > So long as boys or men who have been sexually abused believe these myths, they will feel ashamed and angry. > * > > And so long as sexually abused males believe these myths they reinforce the power of another devastating myth that all abused children struggle with: that it was their fault. It is never the fault of the child in a sexual situation - though perpetrators can be quite skilled at getting their victims to believe these myths and take on responsibility that is always and only their own. > > ``` > > **For any male who has been sexually abused, becoming free of these myths is an essential part of the recovery process.** ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/42 "2004-06-30T03:35:32Z")
Its way too easy to over simplify this issue. Every person is an individual. I can picture a 14 year old girl being emotionally & physically ready, willing & able to bang adult guys (her name was Traci Lords :D). I can also (and more easily) picture a 14 girl total abused by being manipulated into thinking she ‘wants’ to have sex with a 23 year old guy. That site makes a lot of very good points, but it too cannot be all things to all people. A can believe sitiuations it describes as turning out completely the opposite. And to me personally, I simply cannot accept this as being a myth (IOW I believe it to be true): _If a boy experiences sexual arousal or orgasm from abuse, this means he was a willing participant or enjoyed it._ At least not by the time he’s 14. No matter how attractive I find a girl physically, if I feel nothing emotionally, then it ain’t gonna happen. I cannot let my ‘other head do the thinking’ and I certainly couldn’t have at 14. Sure, I spanked it thinking about hot middle school teachers as much as looking at Playboys. But there’s a huge difference between that and actually having sex with one. IOW, I dismiss the notion that getting _and maintaining_ an erection is a totally reflexive action. It is as much an emotional measurement as a physical one (for me anyway). My point is that, given the circumstances in this case, I believe that this 14 year old was using her as much as she was using him. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/43 "2004-06-30T03:42:27Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > I can picture a 14 year old girl being emotionally & physically ready, willing & able to bang adult guys (her name was Traci Lords 😃 Oh yea, she’s the pinnacle of psychological healthiness. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/44 "2004-06-30T03:43:25Z")
Wow. Maybe I’m just a cad, but at 14, I think I would have loved me some casual sex from a hot older woman, and it at least wouldn’t have felt like coersion or abuse. It would have felt like a miraculous gift from the almighty. Ever see “Almost Famous”? There’s one scene where a little group of, er, groupies (very lovely, nubile groupies) declare that “Opie must die”, perform an erotically-charged mock pagan ritual, and then proceed to deflower the protagonist (off camera, of course). I looked at my wife, and said in all seriousness “OK, if something like that had happened to me, I would have started believing on the spot that yes, there was undoubtedly a good and benevolent God.” ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/45 "2004-06-30T03:45:24Z")
If you read her book(Lords) you will see she was not emotionally ready, she claims to have been raped at 11 by a fellow student and moved in with a guy because her home life was negligent. That said, 2 of my friends were having sex at ages 13 and 14 (though with age appropriate guys) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/46 "2004-06-30T03:48:33Z")
I give up. Whatever. Screw physchology, you’re right, he enjoys it so it MUST be good for him! What profound logic and foresight you all have displayed. No, please, go on and raise your kids appropriately. Just keep them the f\* away from my kids. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/47 "2004-06-30T03:57:50Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Wow. Maybe I’m just a cad, but at 14, I think I would have loved me some casual sex from a hot older woman, and it at least wouldn’t have felt like coersion or abuse. It would have felt like a miraculous gift from the almighty. It’s shocking to learn that your deepest desire at that age, your very biological imperative, was to be a victim of abuse, isnt it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/48 "2004-06-30T04:02:15Z")
I don’t think anyone is saying this couple was behaving appropriately. At the very least, statutory rape was comitted, and it would appear that the woman, at least, may have had some realy paraphiliac issues (getting turned on by the inappropriateness of the situation, and turning to that kind of excitement to meet perceived needs left by an unfulfilling adult relationship). This just isn’t cool behavior at all, and I don’t think anyone is endorsing it. What I do think many of us are wondering is, how traumatic could this be? How could something we would have sold our souls to get some of damage us so much psychologically. I myself would not likely need to be coerced into having sex with an attractive older woman at age 14. If I was being used, and knew it, I’d likely not care if we both got off. Such is the callow nature of the teenage male brain. At least, that’s how my teenage male brain worked. Now, having said, all this, if anything like that happens to my kid, I’m gonna be mighty upset. However, I don’t think I’d want to catastrophise things too much; I’m not sure how much good would be done if I assumed my boy was now scarred for life. As I alluded to above, I think I’d be more worried about how he would do socially after the fact than about what the actual sex did to him. High school society is cruel enough without giving a kid’s peers one more reason to heap derision on someone. Chances are, I’d probably want to move the kid to a new school, so he could have some chance at a fresh start, free from the judgement of others just as callow as himself. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/49 "2004-06-30T04:03:13Z")
It may be a great fantasy, but that doesn’t mean the reality is going to be so fun. Teen girls who are abused in a similar manner might also get a lot of arousal from the experience. Our bodies are made that way, so it is perfectly possible to be aroused by something that doesn’t feel right or is coercive. That doesn’t make it OK, for boys as well as girls. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/50 "2004-06-30T04:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > As data emerge, it is clear that sexual abuse has long-term effects on the sexual and reproductive health of young adults. There is some evidence that adolescents who were sexually-abused as children are more likely than non-abused children to engage in high-risk sexual activity. They are more likely to engage in consensual sex earlier as well as to have unprotected sex and sex with multiple partners. 10, , Victims of sexual abuse are often incapable of undertaking self-protective behavior, because the personal skills needed to prevent STIs and unintended pregnancy are exactly those life skills stunted by sexual abuse.11,13 They may be unable or unwilling to make and follow through on decisions that will reduce abuse or remove them from harmful situations.10,11 Sexual abuse can also result in low self-esteem, causing victims to seek acceptance through sex. , > > Adolescent girls who have been abused often have difficulty differentiating between sexual and affectionate behaviors, and have a higher incidence of teenage pregnancy and STI/HIV infection than in their non-abused peers., > > ``` > * A study conducted in Barbados among 407 men and women found that sexual abuse was the most important determinant of high-risk behavior during adolescence and for men it correlated strongly with non-use of condoms in adulthood.12 > * Victims of sexual abuse in one U.S. study began sexual intercourse a year earlier and were less likely to practice birth control than non-victims. > > ``` [http://www.pathfind.org/pf/pubs/focus/IN%20FOCUS/sexabuseinfocus.html](http://www.pathfind.org/pf/pubs/focus/IN%20FOCUS/sexabuseinfocus.html) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/51 "2004-06-30T04:17:14Z")
Would all of you who were as gung-ho about this young man’s sexual abuse be as happy and envious had his abuser been… say… a male priest? Oh, right. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/52 "2004-06-30T04:36:32Z")
Look, do you think you can say unequivocally and undeniably in all cases 100% of the time regardless of anything else, that no 14 year old boy on the planet could possibly be emotionally ready to have sex? Sure, I think it would be safer to wait. But you’re not just taking the moral high ground by saying that its an absolute fact. You’re being presumptious and unrealistic. Believe me thinking back on it now, when I was 14 I remember plenty of other boys who were not as emotionally fragile as you make them out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/53 "2004-06-30T04:44:54Z")
If a 23 year old man had had (“consensual”) sex with this boy, everyone would be screaming that he was a pedophile and calling for his head. This woman’s sorry ass needs to be on the Sex Offender Registry with all the other perverts. Absolutely disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/54 "2004-06-30T04:55:05Z")
No. It’s not okay, by modern social standards (indeed, IMO, standards throughout most of history), for a sexually mature person to have sex with a minor. Particularly if the woman is a teacher in the same school as a minor student, as is the case here. It’s illegal. Right-thinking parents of any such kid should be outraged. Colleagues of the teacher should be appalled. If the perpetrator were male instead of female, this would already be a closed case and we’d be arguing over how severe his punishment should be, not whether the kid enjoyed it or not. The problem here, though, is assuming that the kid in question is entirely blameless or helpless in his physical responses, which I tend to doubt is true. Especially since the incidents took place five times between June 5 and 17. **Zagadka** , I appreciate your reminding us horny males on this thread of the potential psychological harm that may have been done to this kid. The article you linked and quoted from is very instructive about PREMATURE and COERCED sex from an older female and a minor male. BUT – and this is a very big “but” – I think I side with all the guys here who think this kid ended up being targeted by a sexual predator whom he was (probably) all too happy to appease. His willingless mitigates the crime – in least in terms of victimhood. I base my assumption that he was a willing particpant mostly on his comments to police, and that I took [one look](http://www.firstcoastnews.com/assetpool/images/04629101055_teacher01.jpg) at [several pictures of the teacher in question](http://thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0628042teach1.jpg) and thought of myself at 14, and yeah, [I’d have sexed her, too.](http://www.firstcoastnews.com/assetpool/images/04629101024_teacher02.jpg) Then I thought of the bragging rights I could have later in life and that pretty much sealed the deal. Rape is coerced sex. Statutory rape is consentual sex where one partner is below the age of legal consent; doesn’t matter if the underage kid is emotionally ready for casual sex and physically raring to go. The only thing that matters is whether the kid is 18 or not. The woman’s conduct here is doubly reprehensible since she picked her sexual partner from the student body. This is a no-no even at the collegiate level. I have a hard time believing that this kid was coerced even once, let alone EVERY time they got together, given the fact that, according to that MSN article, this woman blew him twice and fucked him three times on the five occassions they were alone together. Much is made about the fact that she was a teacher, but he wasn’t HER student; I don’t think the ‘authority over him’ aspect applies when the authority, while applicable, is mostly peripheral. I grant you I could be wrong but long term psychological damages seems slim. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/55 "2004-06-30T04:57:03Z")
I just don’t think we can stamp “abuse” on every instance of a 14-year-old, male or female, having sex. Our hormones outrace our mental development at that stage and most of us at 14 are far too horny for our own good. It just can’t be possible that every instance of sexual congress involving someone at that age is coerced. That having been said, it’s no more productive to say “Aw HELL yeah! Break out the kegs!” every time we hear that the overtired “lusty teacher” pornographic fantasy has come true for some 14-year-old boy. No intimate relationship is entirely free of psychological repercussions, and the more manipulative the relationship is (and I firmly believe a schoolteacher in an unhappy marriage looking for physical companionship from one of her adolescent charges falls into that category) the more likely some complications will arise out of it when the relationship ends. And it will, given its reason for existing. Is it possible that a 23-year-old woman and a 14-year-old boy can form a lasting, healthy relationship despite their age difference? Yes, of course. Is it possible that boys in these particular circumstances will come out of this no worse for the wear, psychologically, and go on to have a generally healthy sex life? Sure. Are either of them possible _in this particular situation_? Highly doubtful. Based on the decisions behind initiating this relationship, I hope that woman is permanently barred from teaching anywhere in the US. She’s an idiot. And I hope people give the boy the opportunity to honestly talk about his feelings and help him work out whatever wrinkles do develop so that the small psychological hiccups (and they are there) don’t get the potential to grow into larger problems down the road. But I’m not gonna slap him on the back and offer him a cigar just 'cos he got laid. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/56 "2004-06-30T05:14:10Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > If a 23 year old man seduced a 14 year old girl people would find it disgustingly creepy and want him strung up by his nuts. > > The fact that a 23 year old woman seduced a 14 year old boy doesn’t change my opinion too much. Yes, string her up by her nuts! Kudos to the kid, though. If I had a chance at a 23-year-old at that age, nor men nor gods could have stopped me. AFAIConcerned, the age of consent should BE 14 or so. Let’s not be so puritanical, eh? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/57 "2004-06-30T05:17:35Z")
> [@Loctan](#): > > I think it’s no different than a 23 year old man and a 14 year old girl which almost everyone would object to. Not **quite** everyone would object to that, **Loctan.** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/58 "2004-06-30T05:18:09Z")
Unless I’ve missed some evidence that the kid was coerced, I must say it’s absurd to call this abuse. An adult who has sex with a willing teenager is not an abuser, molestor, rapist, or predator. The woman probably shouldn’t be teaching anymore, simply because a teacher having an intimate relationship with a student is an ethical problem no matter how old they both are, but she shouldn’t go to jail. > [@Askia](#): > > If the perpetrator were male instead of female, this would already be a closed case and we’d be arguing over how severe his punishment should be, not whether the kid enjoyed it or not. That’s probably true, but it’s still just a sad reflection of our society’s twisted attitudes about sex and minors. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/59 "2004-06-30T05:27:22Z")
It’s completely and utterly inappropriate. And gross. The age difference is one thing. The fact that the boy was underage is more important. The fact that they had a teacher/student relationship is the most damning. Y’all can say, “go for it, dude!” all you want, or call it a victimless crime, or say that the kid’s lucky. It’s statutory rape, and it’s wrong. > [@Zagadka](#): > > As I said, the difference is there, you just don’t notice it, because it is glorified in your view. Sexually abused males are **predators and abusers, but then, all males are**. Did you explain this comment somewhere and I missed it? I’d really like to hear what you mean by this. ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804/60 "2004-06-30T05:50:53Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > It may be a great fantasy, but that doesn’t mean the reality is going to be so fun. I think that’s a brilliant point. It’s all well and good to say that you _would’ve_ given your right arm to have had the opportunity to have sex with a teacher; the fact is, it never happened - you don’t know what you would have _actually_ felt during or subsequent to the act. Hell, I fantasised about having sex with older men (I’m a woman) when I was younger than the student in question, but I seriously doubt that I’d have been pleased if the sex actually occurred. This woman’s actions are incredibly frustrating to me, as I’m a bit older than she (25) & will be applying for teaching positions this time next year. Actions like hers- aside from being illegal - make life that much more unnecessarily difficult for those of us who would never have sexual/romantic relationships with students. Don’t get me wrong - I think teachers should be above reproach; they are, theoretically and sometimes in fact, authority figures who are at least on a par with (if not held in higher esteem than) a student’s parents or other guardians. The thing is, the fallout from events such as this one tend to result in blanket administrative actions that put good teachers in fear of getting sued or reprimanded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-for-a-14-year-old-boy-and-23-year-old-woman-to-have-sex/252804.md?page=4)