# Okay. Let's do this. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578 "2005-11-18T00:37:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/81 "2005-11-19T06:05:41Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > Why is this on the SDMB? Please start a livejournal or myspace account. This is not your personal drama-mine. Help! Help! I’m being repressed! Oh, are we done with that? Drat. Anyway, as I posted in the other thread, “shut up” was not said in my family, either, and I very rarely say it to anyone else. I think giving it about a 2.5 sounds about right - it’s not the end of the world, but I just don’t say it much. I feel that it IS disrespectful; I would not want to say it unless I really meant it, like telling someone to fuck off. You really have to earn that from me. (I don’t call other people or like being called “bitch,” either. Forgive my coyness, but I also don’t use the c word.) ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/82 "2005-11-19T06:50:35Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Not everyone has a firm iron grip on their emotions 24/7. Sometimes, people just have to let off steam, and they can’t always process what’s best for the kiddies. People are human beings, and human beings can be impulsive, we’re not all perfect by-the-book child rearers. Basically, the thing that made me the most mad about the original post is that someone was valuing the “hurt feelings” (which weren’t even that, kids are resilient as long as nobody makes a big deal about anything) of a child over the very real stress and pain of another person. It’s like if I were crying, and someone yelled at me because my crying made them upset. Well, sorry, but fuck (that hypothetical) you. If I’m crying it’s because I have a damn good reason to be, and I don’t have time to process how my crying will affect everyone else in the room. If I could process this, then chances are I wouldn’t be crying. Grandma didn’t carefully think out her reaction, but guess what, she’s human. Humans lash out. And if A and H think she lashed out so horribly, then they should try to emotionally support her more so that she won’t be stressed so much and won’t be compelled to lash out. Because from what I see, she was in way more pain than the kid. It’s an equally human reaction to get mad at her for it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/83 "2005-11-19T07:23:45Z")
Understand that I agree that _shut up_ is rude and that and alternative is desireable. What puzzled me in the other thread was how **Harborwolf** and {b]Alias\*\* took the observation of “Her house, her rules” as a personal affront to them. I don’t think it was intended as such. It’s a generally accepted principle in our culture that the person or persons who provide shelter make the decisions about what transpires within that shelter as long as the actions are not criminal. They can choose to delegate decision-making, but are never sub-serviant. At the same time, each adult individual is empowered with the decision of choosing where to live. I can’t imagine _anyone_ telling me what I can and can’t say in territory that I pay for. If _shut up_ is something that was normally used with me when I was growing up, then that should have been considered before I made the decision to move back in. If _shut up_ was not normally something that was used and is being used regularly now, I would want to find out if my presence and that of my family is causing a strain. If I have heard it used only once, I would not be overly concerned, but would keep my ears open. Like it or not, when you don’t pay your own way, you surrender certain privileges. This is not a judgment about whether or not you _should_ be paying rent or _should_ be out on your own. It’s generally considered part of the rites of passage in our culture. Again, I am not judging you. I am just looking realistically at your options. When you have your own home, you will be doing 100% of the work and your mother will do 100% of her work. There just won’t be as much. (I haven’t read the snark boards.) ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/84 "2005-11-19T08:40:56Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > (I haven’t read the snark boards.) Wheee doggie, you is missing some fun. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/85 "2005-11-19T14:15:43Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Wheee doggie, you is missing some fun. So? Are you going to share? Don’t bogart that snark, my friend… ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/86 "2005-11-19T15:53:31Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Understand that I agree that _shut up_ is rude and that and alternative is desireable. > > What puzzled me in the other thread was how **Harborwolf** and {b]Alias\*\* took the observation of “Her house, her rules” as a personal affront to them. I don’t think it was intended as such. > > It’s a generally accepted principle in our culture that the person or persons who provide shelter make the decisions about what transpires within that shelter as long as the actions are not criminal. They can choose to delegate decision-making, but are never sub-serviant. At the same time, each adult individual is empowered with the decision of choosing where to live. > > I can’t imagine _anyone_ telling me what I can and can’t say in territory that I pay for. > > If _shut up_ is something that was normally used with me when I was growing up, then that should have been considered before I made the decision to move back in. If _shut up_ was not normally something that was used and is being used regularly now, I would want to find out if my presence and that of my family is causing a strain. If I have heard it used only once, I would not be overly concerned, but would keep my ears open. > > Like it or not, when you don’t pay your own way, you surrender certain privileges. This is not a judgment about whether or not you _should_ be paying rent or _should_ be out on your own. It’s generally considered part of the rites of passage in our culture. > > Again, I am not judging you. I am just looking realistically at your options. > > When you have your own home, you will be doing 100% of the work and your mother will do 100% of her work. There just won’t be as much. > > (I haven’t read the snark boards.) I wasn’t upset by the statement of “her house, her rules.” I agree with that. I don’t try to muscle in on her territory when it comes to technical house rules. In fact, I don’t even have a problem with her saying shut up- she tells her dog to shut up all the time. My problem was with her saying it to my daughter. I don’t feel that is a respectful way to address a family member. I jokingly say it to my friends, but I’d never say it seriously unless there was a damn good reason. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/87 "2005-11-19T16:21:22Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > So? Are you going to share? > > Don’t bogart that snark, my friend… I’m not gonna post a URL, if that’s what you mean. Email me and I’ll send it to you. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/88 "2005-11-19T17:15:20Z")
> [@Alias](#): > > I wasn’t upset by the statement of “her house, her rules.” I agree with that. I don’t try to muscle in on her territory when it comes to technical house rules. In fact, I don’t even have a problem with her saying shut up- she tells her dog to shut up all the time. My problem was with her saying it to my daughter. I don’t feel that is a respectful way to address a family member. I jokingly say it to my friends, but I’d never say it seriously unless there was a damn good reason. What have you learned about her reason for doing so? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/89 "2005-11-19T17:18:09Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Because from what I see, she was in way more pain than the kid. Oh, come on. She wasn’t through a war. Her children weren’t killed in a horrible plane crash. She didn’t just witness a murder. It was a little dog puke. Honestly, if cleaning up after her own pet sends her into such an emotional tailspin that she needs hospitalization, perhaps lashing out at a child isn’t her best option. Perhaps she should look into giving the dog away. A little hyperbole in the above? Sure, but no more than saying that “she was in way more pain” over a little dog vomit. Let’s get some perspective here. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/90 "2005-11-19T18:50:52Z")
I have a question. You’ve mentioned that you live in a resort area, but also that, IIUC, you’re in Michigan’s lower peninsula, in the fingertips of the mitten. So how is that a resort area? Not being snarky, just curious. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/91 "2005-11-19T20:27:51Z")
> [@](#): > > lower peninsula, in the fingertips of the mitten. So how is that a resort area? The Little Finger (with Traverse City at its base) and the whole west shore extending up a bit past Petoskey and Harbor Springs is filled with cottages, fishing, hunting, and boating activities until the snow falls. During the winter, there are a number of ski slopes that, while no match for Aspen, are as good as most of the New England sites and are much closer to Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Detroit than the stuff in New York or Vermont. On the Lake Michigan shore of the Little Finger are the Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes, (now a national lakeshore or something), that are a huge draw during the summer. Up at the tip of the LP is Mackinaw City, which does not have a lot, itself, but which is the primary embarkation point for Mackinac Island. In the triangle created by a line drawn East from Traverse City and South from Mackinaw City with the hypotenuse the Lake Michigan shoreline, the primary industry is tourism, with a lot of small lakes and several good canoeing rivers. Farming and lumbering still go on, but tourism brings in the most dough (for those people who can find a hook to cash in on it). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/92 "2005-11-19T20:30:41Z")
> [@The Weird One](#): > > Sorry, I was skimming and I guess I missed the first sentence somehow. But doesn’t saying it’s close to “bitch” or the finger pretty much put it on par with a curse word? In my estimation, “bitch” is one of the worst curse words, second only to “fuck” and derevations thereof. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/93 "2005-11-19T20:34:04Z")
I see. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/94 "2005-11-19T21:11:48Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The Little Finger (with Traverse City at its base) and the whole west shore extending up a bit past Petoskey and Harbor Springs is filled with cottages, fishing, hunting, and boating activities until the snow falls. During the winter, there are a number of ski slopes that, while no match for Aspen, are as good as most of the New England sites and are much closer to Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Detroit than the stuff in New York or Vermont. > > On the Lake Michigan shore of the Little Finger are the Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes, (now a national lakeshore or something), that are a huge draw during the summer. > > Up at the tip of the LP is Mackinaw City, which does not have a lot, itself, but which is the primary embarkation point for Mackinac Island. > > In the triangle created by a line drawn East from Traverse City and South from Mackinaw City with the hypotenuse the Lake Michigan shoreline, the primary industry is tourism, with a lot of small lakes and several good canoeing rivers. Farming and lumbering still go on, but tourism brings in the most dough (for those people who can find a hook to cash in on it). Wow, you know more about where I live than I do! Let me add that the economy in this area is really weird. Weather plays a huge part in the economy, and chilly summers and mild winters equal VERY low tourism. This causes massive layoffs everywhere, and buisinesses close their doors one after another after another. The way things go in and out of business here is truly unbelievable. This is part of the source of our money woes. We want to leave the area, but we’re really happy with the school system here, and we don’t want to move our daughter away from our families. Finishing college is going to change a lot for me in the job market, but until then, it’s minimum wage or pretty close to it. ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/95 "2005-11-19T21:16:46Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > What have you learned about her reason for doing so? I don’t know what you mean by this. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/96 "2005-11-19T22:30:37Z")
I can’t speak for **fessie** , but maybe some folks are wondering if you or Harborwolf talked to mom about how you felt when she told your daughter to shut up, and how that turned out. Well, **I’m** wondering. I had some issues with my mom and stepdad when me, my husband and kids lived with them for a few months, but I didn’t address those issues. We just got out as soon as we could. (Yeah, I’m a weenie.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/97 "2005-11-19T22:49:59Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I can’t speak for **fessie** , but maybe some folks are wondering if you or Harborwolf talked to mom about how you felt when she told your daughter to shut up, and how that turned out. > > Well, **I’m** wondering. I had some issues with my mom and stepdad when me, my husband and kids lived with them for a few months, but I didn’t address those issues. We just got out as soon as we could. (Yeah, I’m a weenie.) 🙂 Haven’t talked to her yet. Schedules lining up and all. It’ll also be easier to do when the kidlet isn’t around. If not tonight then tomorrow morning. **Tomndebb** , the big money right now is in golf and building high end housing sites for upper middle class and up. Other than that, you nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/98 "2005-11-19T23:21:43Z")
I forgot about the golf and haven’t been up, recently, to see whether the rich have expanded out from Harbor Springs (although year-round access to the Boyne(s) snow and golf makes sense–other than a lack of places for rich people to actually _work_), ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/99 "2005-11-19T23:36:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I forgot about the golf and haven’t been up, recently, to see whether the rich have expanded out from Harbor Springs (although year-round access to the Boyne(s) snow and golf makes sense–other than a lack of places for rich people to actually _work_), They’ve expanded somewhat. Bay Harbor was doing well until the whole water pollution runoff was discovered. Now the real estate market there has gone belly up. Boyne’s been going downhill for a while. From what I’ve heard, they got kicked out of Bay Harbor by Mariott (I think) and the Highlands is getting pummeled by Boyne Mountains new indoor waterpark. The local casino/hotels are taking a bite out of their action as well. As far as the rich go, it’s hard to say. There are certainly more areas for them to set up houses if they so choose, but they don’t seem to be choosing. I’m certainly not an economist, but the whole thing feels like a bubble that’s about to burst. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578/100 "2005-11-20T04:29:15Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > **Plynck** , the whole nuclear family concept is not something that we’ve ever thought about. Alias and I have both worked and share caregiver duties. We’ve always been the primary and continue to be so. We don’t even ask my mother to babysit. Personal lives are had by all. No offense was intended in my post; both you and \*\*Alias \*\* had mentioned that there was more to the story, but I was working with what I had. A lot of folks are suggesting talking things out. I think it’s a good idea, but you know best. Just like the letter you put in a drawer for awhile, wait until things have calmed down a bit. Good luck to all of you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-do-this/331578.md?page=6)