# Okay, let's have that "Does AA work?" thread. (Alcoholics Anonymous)

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-have-that-does-aa-work-thread-alcoholics-anonymous/557706>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [October 19, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-have-that-does-aa-work-thread-alcoholics-anonymous/557706 "2010-10-19T21:27:22Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 149

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**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-lets-have-that-does-aa-work-thread-alcoholics-anonymous/557706/149 "2010-10-21T19:36:18Z")

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Duplicate of what I posted in my pit thread:

> [@Shodan and AClockWorkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shodan-and-aclockworkmelon/557705/157):
>
> [We can trade cites all day long.](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=490)
> 
> > [@Science Based Medicine](#):
> >
> > The 1992, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism’s National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey studied 42,000 Americans. 4500 had been dependent on alcohol at some time in their lives. Of these, only 27% had had treatment of any kind, and **one-third of those who had been treated were still abusing alcohol. Of those who had never had any treatment, only one-quarter were still abusing alcohol**.
> 
> Yes, you read that right.
> 
> [And here’s the Washington Post.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080602660.html)
> 
> > [@The Washington Post](#):
> >
> > Originally Posted by The Washington Post  
> > There is little compelling evidence that the AA method works, inside or outside a rehab facility.
> > 
> > …
> > 
> > In a 2005 article in the journal Addiction, Deborah A. Dawson and her colleagues calculated a natural recovery rate for alcoholism of 24.4 percent – that is, over the course of a year, 24.4 percent of the alcoholics studied simply wised up, got sick and tired of being sick and tired, and quit. **Without treatment and without meetings**.
> 
> [And here’s George Vaillant, a Trustee of Alcoholics Anonymous.](http://cbtrecovery.org/AAefficacyrates.htm)
> 
> > [@George Vaillant](#):
> >
> > It seemed perfectly clear that . . . by inexorably moving patients from dependence upon the general hospital into the treatment system of AA, I was working for the most exciting alcohol program in the world. But then came the rub. Fueled by our enthusiasm, I and the director . . . tried to prove our efficacy. Our clinic followed up our first 100 detoxification patients. . . . [and found] compelling evidence that the results of our treatment were no better than the natural history of the disease.
> 
> > [@CBT Recover on George Vaillant's findings](#):
> >
> > One interesting observation: a long-term study of over 4,500 subjects found that **more treated alcoholics than untreated alcoholics had been abusing or dependent on alcohol within the previous year**!

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