# Okay now it's official: Fuck You, Bernie! Put down the mirror and end your fucking campaign. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760 "2020-03-18T22:25:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/41 "2020-03-19T22:28:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > For what it is worth I don’t think Biden is particularly adroit in this area, either; the guy still talks about “record players”, for fluff’s sake, but again, he is at least fungible and open to different ideas within a hypothetical Cabinet and advisors. [Millennials LOVE record players](https://fortune.com/2017/08/04/millennials-vinyl-industry/)! I doubt that will make them start liking Biden, though. ---
**Author:** ![poweroftheglory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@poweroftheglory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poweroftheglory)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/42 "2020-03-19T23:39:57Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > [Millennials LOVE record players](https://fortune.com/2017/08/04/millennials-vinyl-industry/)! I doubt that will make them start liking Biden, though. [No Empathy for millennials](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdXBrhV4B-I)! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/43 "2020-03-20T00:02:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I plan to vote for the nominee no matter what, very likely to be Biden. I’m under no illusions that even if Bernie won things would go his way – I just think it’s slightly more likely that our broken system would become a bit less broken with Bernie as president rather than Biden. Thanks for the reminder that many stalwart Bernie supporters are rational and open-minded. I hope the Bernie Brigade (they ain’t all Bro’s…) think like you do, and make defeating Trump and remaking America a priority. And I hope the more mainstream Democrats listen to you! And Warren’s supporters, too. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/44 "2020-03-20T00:24:41Z")
> [@poweroftheglory](#): > > [No Empathy for millennials](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdXBrhV4B-I)! Oh my gosh, Joe made a gaffe two years ago! :eek: I’d be super worried if millennials actually voted. ---
**Author:** ![Dogginit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogginit/32/16920_2.png) [@Dogginit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogginit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/45 "2020-03-20T16:55:57Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > The difference between Biden and Bernie is that Bernie would fail at things that were meaningful. I doubt a President Sanders could ever get M4A passed. But he _could_ get people talking about it. He could get people excited for it. He could get people marching, writing to Congress, and signing petitions in support of it. He could shine a spotlight on recalcitrant so-called moderate Senators and force them to explain to their constituents why they deserve to live without insurance, or without sufficient insurance, or with the crushing burdens of huge co-pays and deductibles. He could ask them how they can sleep at night knowing that the wealthy have all the healthcare they could possibly want, while the poorest have to beg for insulin money on the internet _and he can make them answer!_ So why would Bernie need to be President to accomplish that? Seems he could do that from any seat. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/46 "2020-03-20T17:09:22Z")
> [@Dogginit](#): > > So why would Bernie need to be President to accomplish that? Seems he could do that from any seat. Much harder to ignore the President than another Senator. Also, it’s much easier to organise large groups across the country from the White House than from an office in Vermont. Look at the pressure Trump can exert with just a couple of tweets. Now imagine that being used for genuinely progressive causes. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/47 "2020-03-20T18:02:35Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Much harder to ignore the President than another Senator. Also, it’s much easier to organise large groups across the country from the White House than from an office in Vermont. Look at the pressure Trump can exert with just a couple of tweets. Now imagine that being used for genuinely progressive causes. As the chief executive of the country, a president has to deal with many different issues throughout the day, and doesn’t have time to sit and focus on an issue or “organize large groups”. The idea that a hypothetical President Sanders will put aside all other duties to just focus on his signature issues is just another argument for why he would not be a good chief executive, nor would the position be a good fit to accomplish his agenda. Trump doesn’t “exert [pressure] with just a couple of tweet”; he Twitters out whavever stream-of-consciousness is going through his head during his 4 am morning dump, and the news media spends the rest of the day arguing about what the agrammatical gibberish means while Kellyanne Conway parades around from one studio to another talking about ‘alternative facts’ and flatly lying. We really don’t need the progressive mirror universe of the same thing in Sanders. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dogginit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogginit/32/16920_2.png) [@Dogginit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogginit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/48 "2020-03-20T18:03:40Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Much harder to ignore the President than another Senator. Also, it’s much easier to organise large groups across the country from the White House than from an office in Vermont. Look at the pressure Trump can exert with just a couple of tweets. Now imagine that being used for genuinely progressive causes. Harder to ignore does not equal easier to agree with…current chump-in-chief as a prime example. Obama wasn’t President when he managed to rally enough groups across the country to get himself elected. If the message you want to get across sells, you can sell it from anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/49 "2020-03-20T18:09:15Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > He cannot get elected president. So it doesn’t matter what he stands for. Neither can Biden, who stands for nothing but billionaires, and who can barely stand while doing that as he offers to prostitute himself. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/50 "2020-03-20T18:15:07Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > Neither can Biden, who stands for nothing but billionaires, and who can barely stand while doing that as he offers to prostitute himself. Silence! Imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/51 "2020-03-20T18:16:19Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > Neither can Biden, who stands for nothing but billionaires, and who can barely stand while doing that as he offers to prostitute himself. We’ll have to disagree on Biden’s electibility. He’s managed to beat Sanders quite handily in the primaries, same as Clinton did. Who he stands for isn’t quite as important as who votes for him, and right now he’s getting a very respectable number of votes. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/52 "2020-03-20T21:35:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe some small fraction of his supporters believe this, but this isn’t how I see it. > > Here’s the way I see it – Bernie (big ego and all) recognizes that this really is a broken system, hopelessly tilted towards the rich and powerful, and against working people, without revolutionary change. He isn’t even willing to oppose the filibuster. Revolutionary change, my ass. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/53 "2020-03-21T10:29:11Z")
Sanders lost me when he pushed against “identity politics.” The concept is the idea that groups with similar backgrounds will band together to vote in a block. That is a common tactic among minorities, which is why Republicans are so big against it. I am surprised that **iiandyiiii** was okay with that racist tactic/dogwhistle. Because it killed any chance I had at supporting Bernie other than if he was the nominee. It would be like if a Democrat started complaining about political correctness or SJWs or radical feminists. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/54 "2020-03-21T11:39:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sanders lost me when he pushed against “identity politics.” The concept is the idea that groups with similar backgrounds will band together to vote in a block. That is a common tactic among minorities, which is why Republicans are so big against it. > > I am surprised that **iiandyiiii** was okay with that racist tactic/dogwhistle. Because it killed any chance I had at supporting Bernie other than if he was the nominee. It would be like if a Democrat started complaining about political correctness or SJWs or radical feminists. He’s a flawed candidate, I just found the other candidates (except for maybe Warren, whom I supported for a while) more flawed. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/55 "2020-03-21T12:28:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sanders lost me when he pushed against “identity politics.” The concept is the idea that groups with similar backgrounds will band together to vote in a block. That is a common tactic among minorities, which is why Republicans are so big against it. > > I am surprised that **iiandyiiii** was okay with that racist tactic/dogwhistle. Because it killed any chance I had at supporting Bernie other than if he was the nominee. It would be like if a Democrat started complaining about political correctness or SJWs or radical feminists. I think Bernie can be forgiven for that - I think he’s a decent guy in that regard. I don’t think Bernie is racist or plays to dog whistles. Bernie’s crime is ignorance and naivete - he has major blind spots. I don’t think Bernie is a sexist or misogynist, but he has a core of male supporters who really are misogynistic, and I think both his supporters and Sanders himself are really blind to that. They’re also reflexively defensive when they really ought to be listening to try to understand why people call them out on subtle or not-so-subtle sexism. As it is with his sexism, Bernie and his supporters don’t realize when they’re being offensive to people of color. As it is with his campaign’s accidental sexism, there’s a lack of awareness when it comes to racial matters, and no - bringing more people of color into his campaign didn’t fix that, in my view. There’s a disturbing level of condescension. More than once I’ve seen some of his supporters say things like ‘Minorities need to vote for their interests.’ But Bernie’s bigger crime is that he’s been drinking a little too much of his own piss lately. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/56 "2020-03-23T02:04:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As a legislator he’s compromised countless times – it’s his rhetoric that’s uncompromising, not his voting history. He voted for the ACA and pretty much every other incremental bit of progress, even as he’s advocated for far more. Voting for stuff is not really the same thing as bringing about change. Name a few key pieces of legislation that he has been able to pass. > [@](#): > > But with the massive scale of the brokenness of our system, I’m going to support the guy who recognizes this over the guy who doesn’t. I see no reason to believe that Biden is more likely to fix this broken system when he doesn’t even recognize that it’s broken. You will NEVER actually achieve change with bernie. The progress you get with biden may be more incremental but it will be progress. > [@](#): > > This is all academic at this point – Biden is almost certainly the nominee. But I’m just pointing out that there are very solid reasons for many of us to support Bernie. And given that it’s over, isn’t it now time to start supporting Biden? > [@](#): > > This sums up most of why I support Bernie: [Bernie Sanders could be the most electable Democrat in 2020 - Vox](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/7/21002895/bernie-sanders-2020-electability) Bernie polls behind Biden in a head to head vs trump in every swing state except wisconsin where bernie is ahead by 1%. There is NO state where bernie beats trump but biden loses to trump. There are several states where biden beats trump but bernie ties. The thing that is pissing off some bernie bros is that even with a weaker candidate like bernie, trump STILL looks like he will lose. And this might be the only chance we will ever have to elect such an extreme left candidate in this country. And they feel like we owe it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/57 "2020-03-23T03:32:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The thing that is pissing off some bernie bros is that even with a weaker candidate like bernie, trump STILL looks like he will lose. And this might be the only chance we will ever have to elect such an extreme left candidate in this country. _And they feel like we owe it to them._ (emphasis added) That is the problem right there; Many enthusiastic Bernie Sanders supporters feel that he is _entitled_ to the nomination. But he has to make the case that he can not only talk about change but manage to get elected and develop enough of a consensus in the legislature to make those promises become reality. And he hasn’t made that case to the majority of primary voters of a party that he isn’t even really a member of. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/58 "2020-03-23T12:19:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > (emphasis added) > > That is the problem right there; Many enthusiastic Bernie Sanders supporters feel that he is _entitled_ to the nomination. But he has to make the case that he can not only talk about change but manage to get elected and develop enough of a consensus in the legislature to make those promises become reality. And he hasn’t made that case to the majority of primary voters of a party that he isn’t even really a member of. > > Stranger I think those who believe Bernie is entitled to the nomination are channeling their own anger and frustrations. They’re not wrong in diagnosing the problem: we have a corrupt government and rampant inequality that has made millions of people miserable and made it hard for people to join and stay in the middle class. I feel them on that part. I just wish they’d be a little more practical and accept victories when the opportunities present themselves rather than waiting for the perfect candidate. That’s the same kind of energy that fuels authoritarianism. They may not like Trump but they are unwittingly feeding his fire because they embrace similar kinds of shock politics. That energy is infectious. It’s worth remembering that Hitler didn’t rise in a vacuum. He rose as his extremist party was competing with extremists who were on the polar opposite end of the spectrum but who were extremists nevertheless. Those two extremist factions fed off of each other, and each took cues from the other, with similarly violent rhetoric and even violent behavior. I’m not saying that the Bernistas are violent - at least not yet, but they are definitely channeling the same kinds of conspiracy theory-based and grievance-based politics. In the case of one of AOC’s now former strategists, they ratchet up the rhetoric to levels that are quite personal and they have a take-no-prisoners mentality. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760/59 "2020-03-23T16:40:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I don’t think any of the candidates in the Democratic field would be hawking for another war. But just wanting to avoid engaging in a war isn’t enough on its own; a president also has to be able to deal with world events and crises effectively using the available tools _including the threat and action of military force when other measures will not serve_ in order to de-escalate potential conflict. None of the candidates in the field really has foreign policy experience (nor military experience above the field grade level), so Bernie Sanders doesn’t exactly fail out there, Biden has extensive foreign policy experience - that was one of his big selling points when Obama picked him. He was on and chaired the Foreign Relations Committee for years and was Obama’s lead man on a few diplomatic efforts. Unfortunately, that included the Ukraine corruption file. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-official-fuck-you-bernie-put-down-the-mirror-and-end-your-fucking-campaign/849760.md?page=2)