# Okay, now it's time to put antifa in the same class as racists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922 "2017-08-28T10:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/1 "2017-08-28T10:38:19Z")
[http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masked-anarchists-violently-rout-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/ar-AAqOvxH?li=BBnbfcL](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masked-anarchists-violently-rout-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/ar-AAqOvxH?li=BBnbfcL) Bad enough that they attacked peaceful rightwing demonstrators, but they attacked police and reporters too, and didn’t even have the courage to show their faces. Even the racists showed their faces(and many of them paid for it later). Vox posts an interview with an expert on antifa: > **["They have no allegiance to liberal democracy": An expert on antifa explains...](https://www.vox.com/2017/8/25/16189064/protests-george-floyd-antifa-president-trump)** > > The left-wing group is back in the news. An expert explains where they come from and what they want. “No allegiance to liberal democracy” is the key phrase here. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/2 "2017-08-28T10:45:19Z")
The Black Bloc does not represent those of us on the left who oppose fascism, right-wing racism, and white nationalism. They’re not part of us. They never were. They do not speak for us and we do not endorse them or approve of their tactics. We are not anarchists. We do not wish to have any association with them, as we find them abhorrent, and it is a gross misstatement of fact to attribute their acts to us. Can your president say, unequivocally and without qualification, the same of the Nazis that march in his name? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/3 "2017-08-28T10:59:31Z")
Huh - turns out the revolution might be televised, after all… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/4 "2017-08-28T11:00:53Z")
The “Black Bloc” types are opportunists who insert themselves in situations that will magnify their apparent influence, by finding a crowd, identifying where the news cameras are, and going there to look like they are leading. Their main tactic is to see if they can provoke an overreaction. Their usual effect is to drive people away from the movements they try to associate themselves with, and in the end weaken them, but that’s fine with them as it’s a way of leaving violent revolution as the only alternative. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/5 "2017-08-28T11:02:09Z")
These Black Bloc are assholes. Throw the book at anyone inciting violence. They do not speak for me and I disavow their methods. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/6 "2017-08-28T11:07:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The Black Bloc does not represent those of us on the left who oppose fascism, right-wing racism, and white nationalism. > > They’re not part of us. They never were. They do not speak for us and we do not endorse them or approve of their tactics. We are not anarchists. We do not wish to have any association with them, as we find them abhorrent, and it is a gross misstatement of fact to attribute their acts to us. > > Can your president say, unequivocally and without qualification, the same of the Nazis that march in his name? Your argument is sound. You are absolutely correct. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/7 "2017-08-28T11:07:46Z")
There is no evidence to support a claim that this was an attack by “ANTIFA.” As frustrating as I know it is for advocates of any extreme viewpoint to accept, the reality is that NO group of self-labeled people is directly represented in the way that you wish them to be for your own purposes. Even if you can prove that a vile person who misbehaved thought of themselves as A REPUBLICAN, for example, that doesn’t mean that they represent all Republicans. The fact that someone thinks that they are A LIBERAL does not mean that they represent all Liberals. And so on. What I have seen many many times in the past of the world, is that there are lots of eager, mentally “off” people in the world, who are essentially looking to feel that they are heroes, because they do something extreme. Such people will often latch on to one group and then another, because they hope to find peace in themselves by proving their fanatic support for a righteous-sounding cause. Many terrorists are exactly this kind of person, which is why those who are captured, rarely turn out to be “all there” in their minds. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/8 "2017-08-28T11:13:59Z")
Anarchists have been around forever. I don’t know of any mainstream progressive who takes them seriously and we wish they’d just disappear. This is not to in any way minimize their behavior, for which they should be held completely accountable, but I’ll say that there is a much greater danger of right wing extremism going mainstream than there is left wing radicalism. The oppression espoused by the right has a history that history; there is no history of antifascist oppression or terrorism other than the occasional riot at a Seattle G20 meeting. So while I think antifascist thugs oughtta be tossed in the clink - as they have been - I don’t really fear them as a movement. I’m also not going to completely rule out the idea that some of these “protesters” could be right-wing plants. Admittedly, there’s no evidence of that to date, but I’m saying I wouldn’t discount that possibility in the future. When people like James O’Keefe fraudulently cook up claims that ACORN was involved in helping prostitution or in voter fraud or whatever else, I don’t put anything past the right wing brown shirts. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/9 "2017-08-28T11:16:31Z")
Looks like more than just a few bad apples though, seems to be more of these people than there are right-wing demonstrators as a whole. Glad they weren’t active during the Tea Party protests, that could have gotten ugly. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/10 "2017-08-28T11:29:45Z")
When the anarchists and “antifa” have a history of consisting of slavery, mass murder, lynchings, subjugation and terror, then they can be put in the same category as nazis and racists. Until then, they are just garden variety street thugs. Trump’s moronic false equivalence only resonates with the wilfully ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/11 "2017-08-28T11:32:32Z")
They are associated with regimes and ideologies that enslaved whole peoples and committed mass murder on a scale that dwarfs anything in human history. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/12 "2017-08-28T11:38:14Z")
I absolutely condemn the use of violence to disrupt a peaceful protests. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/13 "2017-08-28T11:40:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They are associated with regimes and ideologies that enslaved whole peoples and committed mass murder on a scale that dwarfs anything in human history. Wake me when the president of the United States calls them “very fine people”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/14 "2017-08-28T12:09:13Z")
THat’s true, the Nazis now have a friend in the White House, the antifas never have. But if we’re comparing them on the violence scale, the antifas consider violence to be their primary tactic, and they are the only political group in the country that functions this way. Knowing this, the police should act accordingly and crack their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/15 "2017-08-28T12:33:33Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > When the anarchists and “antifa” have a history of consisting of slavery, **mass murder** , lynchings, subjugation and **terror** , then they can be put in the same category as nazis and racists. Until then, they are just garden variety street thugs. (bolding added) I don’t think you want to go there. For example, note the Barcelona opera house bombing and the Cafe Terminus bombing (described [here](http://listverse.com/2014/05/04/10-acts-of-anarchist-terrorism-that-shocked-the-world/)): \*"The bombing of a Parisian cafe in February 12, 1894 ignited the age of modern terrorism, and its perpetrator, an intellectual named Emile Henry, fits the description of a “terrorist” as we define it today. Before this, Anarchists had largely targeted authority figures—policemen, military, government officials. Henry chose as his victims ordinary people simply going about their daily lives. Seeking to avenge the death of Vaillant, Henry hid a bomb in a metal lunchbox as he stalked the elegant cafes along the Avenue de l’Opera. He decided on the Cafe Terminus, ordered a beer and a cigar, and lit his bomb. The ensuing carnage killed one and injured 20. Henry was wrestled to the ground as he tried to escape. Henry had acted on his belief that “there are no innocent bourgeois.” He had intended to kill more. At his trial in April 1894, which ended with him sentenced to death, Henry did not hide his guilt. He rather used the court as a forum for Anarchist propaganda. He ranted, “We who hand out death know how to take it . . . (Anarchism) is in violent revolt against the established order. It will finish by killing you.”" \* ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/16 "2017-08-28T12:33:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THat’s true, the Nazis now have a friend in the White House, the antifas never have. But if we’re comparing them on the violence scale, the antifas consider violence to be their primary tactic, and they are the only political group in the country that functions this way. Knowing this, the police should act accordingly and crack their heads. Is your memory failing or just highly selective? It’s been two weeks since a neo-nazi drove a car into a crowd of peaceful protesters. [Who is behind the violence in last 15 years](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/): > [@](#): > > Since then — from Sept. 12, 2001, to Dec. 31, 2016 — there have been 85 attacks in the country by violent extremists resulting in 225 deaths. GAO reported citing data from the U.S. Extremist Crime Database. > > Of those 225 deaths: > > • 106 individuals were killed by far-right violent extremists in 62 separate incidents; > > • 119 individuals were killed by radical Islamist violent extremists in 23 separate incidents; Now, what was that you were saying about that violence scale and how antifa rates? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/17 "2017-08-28T12:36:18Z")
Well, one of their victims is in a coma, so you might be adding one to the tally. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/18 "2017-08-28T12:44:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, one of their victims is in a coma, so you might be adding one to the tally. You win the internet today! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/19 "2017-08-28T12:52:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Bad enough that they attacked peaceful rightwing demonstrators, but they attacked police and reporters too Arrest 'em and jail 'em. If I have to start attending right-wing rallies to deploy Gandhian nonviolence to help protect horrible but currently law-abiding right-wing turdbigots from criminal assault by antifa, I am gonna be **PISSED** (she said nonviolently). ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/20 "2017-08-28T13:04:13Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > (bolding added) > > I don’t think you want to go there. > > For example, note the Barcelona opera house bombing and the Cafe Terminus bombing (described [here](http://listverse.com/2014/05/04/10-acts-of-anarchist-terrorism-that-shocked-the-world/)): > > \*"The bombing of a Parisian cafe in February 12, 1894 ignited the age of modern terrorism, and its perpetrator, an intellectual named Emile Henry, fits the description of a “terrorist” as we define it today. Before this, Anarchists had largely targeted authority figures—policemen, military, government officials. Henry chose as his victims ordinary people simply going about their daily lives. > > Seeking to avenge the death of Vaillant, Henry hid a bomb in a metal lunchbox as he stalked the elegant cafes along the Avenue de l’Opera. He decided on the Cafe Terminus, ordered a beer and a cigar, and lit his bomb. The ensuing carnage killed one and injured 20. Henry was wrestled to the ground as he tried to escape. > > Henry had acted on his belief that “there are no innocent bourgeois.” He had intended to kill more. > > At his trial in April 1894, which ended with him sentenced to death, Henry did not hide his guilt. He rather used the court as a forum for Anarchist propaganda. He ranted, “We who hand out death know how to take it . . . (Anarchism) is in violent revolt against the established order. It will finish by killing you.”" \* Yeesh, that’s a stretch. Gimme a Dylann Roof or Timothy McVeigh example in modern America. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922.md?page=2)