# Okay, now it's time to put antifa in the same class as racists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922 "2017-08-28T10:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/241 "2017-08-31T20:38:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You lump the era of worldwide acceptance of slavery with 20th century genocidal ideologies to overstate a negligible threat now. The ideology more likely to result in people dying today is stuff like communism. We still have in the modern age communist governments that do terrible atrocities. Where is fascism popular enough to take over a nation? > > Yes Nazis are bad. But they do less damage to the US then most decent sized criminal gangs. Not just nazis, but white supremacists in general. Tim McVeigh, [for example](http://www.seattlepi.com/national/article/FBI-tied-McVeigh-to-supremacist-plotters-1107464.php). And all the lynchings and Civil Rights murders of the 20th century. And a lot more since then. Yes, they have done far, far more damage to the US even in recent years than communists. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/242 "2017-08-31T20:46:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s a ridiculous argument. Antifa is a violent group. That’s like saying the mob isn’t a violent group because they didn’t have someone sleep with the fishes today. That’s like saying that cops are a violent group, because some of their members committed acts of violence. What’s ridiculous is your constant need to defend nazi at all costs. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/243 "2017-09-01T12:28:12Z")
Heh. Trevor Noah called them “Vegan ISIS”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/244 "2017-09-01T14:29:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, it’s valid. I’m glad they managed to not attack anyone that day. That’s really decent of you to acknowledge reality. > [@adaher](#): > > Next step: not hiding thier faces. Cowards. …Said the guy who posts anonymously on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/245 "2017-09-01T18:41:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s like saying that cops are a violent group, because some of their members committed acts of violence. > > What’s ridiculous is your constant need to defend nazi at all costs. What’s ridiculous is how stupid and dishonest you are. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/246 "2017-09-01T19:01:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Anarchists have been around forever. I don’t know of any mainstream progressive who takes them seriously and we wish they’d just disappear. The same idiots were the catalysts for riots at the G20 summit in Toronto in 2010. At the time, I would guess not one single person in this thread had heard of the name “Antifa.” Antifa, in North America, is basically some disconnected Facebook pages; it isn’t really an organization. When the usual troublemakers show up at demonstrations now, they call themselves “Antifa” because the same sounds cool. Five years ago they called themselves the “Black Bloc.” Five years from now there will be some other name. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/247 "2017-09-01T20:36:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What’s ridiculous is how stupid and dishonest you are. That’s what a nazi defender would say. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/248 "2017-09-01T21:13:59Z")
Doesn’t matter if they’ve been around for one day, one year, or one hundred years; or if they are a loosely connected bunch of crackpots or a well organized cabal. If they are advocating violence (and actually using it) against a group of people, even if they consider “these people” to be a threat to the American way of life, then they are guilty of using the same tactics that we find so offensive in groups like the KKK and are therefore on the same moral ground. Just because you find them less offensive and less pervasive than other hate organizations doesn’t make them any less a hate organization. And make no mistake, the people calling themselves antifa are advocating violence and actually using it. If you (or anyone else) thinks that adding another hate group to the (sadly) growing list of hate groups takes anything away from monsterishness of any other group, then you really don’t understand what is going on. mc (yes I said “monsterishness”) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/249 "2017-09-01T21:18:22Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > If they are advocating violence (and actually using it) against **a group of people** , even if they consider “these people” to be a threat to the American way of life, then they are guilty of using the same tactics that we find so offensive in **groups like the KKK** and **are therefore on the same moral ground**. Just because you find them less offensive and less pervasive than other hate organizations doesn’t make them any less **a hate organization**. And make no mistake, the people calling themselves antifa are advocating violence and actually using it. > > If you (or anyone else) thinks that adding **another hate group** to the (sadly) growing list of hate groups takes anything away from monsterishness of any other group, then you really don’t understand what is going on. > > mc > > (yes I said “monsterishness”) Wow. “Hate group”, huh? Remind me again: how many people are born fascists? ETA: Your attempt to draw moral equivalence fails mightily, as it would have us “admit” that we were no better than the Nazis in WW2 since we used violence against them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/250 "2017-09-01T21:40:23Z")
Only after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor! ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/251 "2017-09-01T21:46:09Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Wow. > > ETA: Your attempt to draw moral equivalence fails mightily, as it would have us “admit” that we were no better than the Nazis in WW2 since we used violence against them. there is a distinction between acts of state and individual acts This a discussion for another thread, but yeah, I consider all war to be hate crimes. mc ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/252 "2017-09-01T21:51:30Z")
And you make the point that I think a lot on the left are more tolerant of antifa because of the credo “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” but I would say. if you use my enemies tactics (even against my enemy) you are no friend of mine! mc ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/253 "2017-09-01T21:56:52Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > there is a distinction between acts of state and individual acts > > This a discussion for another thread, but yeah, I consider all war to be hate crimes. > > mc Ah, another “if I redefine words, they mean just what I say!” kinda guy. :rolleyes: > [@mikecurtis](#): > > And you make the point that I think a lot on the left are more tolerant of antifa because of the credo “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” but I would say. if you use my enemies tactics (even against my enemy) you are no friend of mine! > > mc No; I don’t make that point at all. You make your own point. For fuck’s sake, is this evidence of how your brain works and what you consider “logical” thought? And your point, by the way, is dumb-as-hell projection. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/254 "2017-09-01T22:59:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Ah, another “if I redefine words, they mean just what I say!” kinda guy. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime) is a prejudice-motivated crime, usually violent, which occurs when a perpetrator **targets a victim because of his or her membership (or perceived membership) in a certain group.** > > Examples of such groups can include and are almost exclusively limited to: sex, ethnicity, disability, language, nationality, physical appearance, religion, gender identity or sexual orientation Yes, I did use the word hate group liberally as "ideolog’y is currently not on the above list, but that list is an evolving one and doesn’t mean it can’t be added to. I don’t think I redefined anything by saying that they should be considered a hate group. and isn’t that part of what this thread is asking us to consider? > [@](#): > > No; I don’t make that point at all. You make your own point. For fuck’s sake, is this evidence of how your brain works and what you consider “logical” thought? And your point, by the way, is dumb-as-hell projection. I can only assume that the reason people are saying that violence against nazis is not the same as violence against anyone is because they feel that violence against nazis is justified. If you are not making that point fair enough, but others in this thread and elsewhere seem to be making it. mc ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/255 "2017-09-02T16:02:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Wow. > > “Hate group”, huh? > > Remind me again: how many people are born fascists? > > ETA: Your attempt to draw moral equivalence fails mightily, as it would have us “admit” that we were no better than the Nazis in WW2 since we used violence against them. Yeah all these Nazi sympathizers and wannabe KKKers should get back to us when “antifa” starts building camps with ovens, or sneaking around at night lynching people for their skin color, or running people down with cars. As for WW2, I fully accept my family’s “guilt” in killing Nazis during the war as Allied soldiers. Too bad they didn’t kill even more. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/256 "2017-09-02T16:04:08Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > And you make the point that I think a lot on the left are more tolerant of antifa because of the credo “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” but I would say. if you use my enemies tactics (even against my enemy) you are no friend of mine! > > mc So it was bad to fight Hitler with guns and planes and tanks and stuff. Got it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/257 "2017-09-04T03:31:52Z")
Well good news: Antifa (whatever it is and whoever its membership are deemed to be) are now possibly “terrorists” according to the feds. > **[FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235)** > > Confidential documents call the anarchists that seek to counter white supremacists "domestic terrorists." But armed militia men? Sheriffs who believe that they actually have more supremacy than the constitution? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/258 "2017-09-04T03:51:57Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Well good news: Antifa (whatever it is and whoever its membership are deemed to be) are now possibly “terrorists” according to the feds. > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235) > > But armed militia men? Sheriffs who believe that they actually have more supremacy than the constitution? Not so much. The FBI does not make public its list of domestic groups it views as ones likely to commit terror acts, so you really have no way of knowing which groups are or are not on the list. It would not surprise me if Antifa is now “on the list”, but that is not to say that right wing extremist groups that advocate violence are not “on the list”. But note, from your own cite: > [@](#): > > In recent decades, authorities have focused almost exclusively on right-wing groups as the most likely instigators of domestic terrorist violence, especially since Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995, killing 168 people. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/259 "2017-09-04T11:43:04Z")
Personally I can’t stand antifa. My concern isn’t so much putting them on a watch list, which seems fair to a degree. The problem is that I could see Jeff Sessions and other conservatives at the local level using a push on antifa to go after anti-Trump protesters more broadly the way Nixon tried to. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/260 "2017-09-04T16:37:56Z")
Calling “Antifa” “terrorists” does seem to open the door to calling anybody with anti-fascist tendencies a “terrorist sympathizer”. Do we really want this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922.md?page=14)