# Okay, now it's time to put antifa in the same class as racists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922 "2017-08-28T10:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/101 "2017-08-29T17:21:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > They haven’t rammed their cars into a crowd yet. Nor have they brought guns yet. “Leftist factions like the anti-racist, anti-capitalist Redneck Revolt also showed up wielding guns with the purpose, they said, of defending counter-protesters.” > **[Right-to-Carry Laws Are Making Violent Protests like Charlottesville Even...](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/right-to-carry-laws-are-making-violent-protests-like-charlottesville-even-harder-to-defuse/)** > > "Nobody got shot, but it doesn’t mean that the next time...someone doesn’t reach for their sidearm and feel justified."  ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/102 "2017-08-29T17:29:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > In not aware of any KKKers attending rallies, wearing masks and looking for a beat down. Should they start, lock em up. The larger point is that violence has no point in politics. How charmingly naive. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/103 "2017-08-29T17:35:15Z")
That’s because Antifas is woven into the American culture, especially in Southern states. KKK has been around…what, couple years? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/104 "2017-08-29T17:36:52Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > How charmingly naive. 🙂 Links? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/105 "2017-08-29T18:09:00Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > “Leftist factions like the anti-racist, anti-capitalist Redneck Revolt also showed up wielding guns with the purpose, they said, of defending counter-protesters.” > > [Right-to-Carry Laws Are Making Violent Protests like Charlottesville Even Harder to Defuse – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/right-to-carry-laws-are-making-violent-protests-like-charlottesville-even-harder-to-defuse/) Madsircool already corrected me. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/106 "2017-08-29T18:13:33Z")
Racists enslaved people for 250 years in this country, then denied their descendants opportunities to this present day. The “antifa” boogeyman Adaher is making up out of thin cloth have quite a ways to go to even come close to warranting a thread, much less… how’d he put it… “outpacing the racists.” Stop this equivalency bullshit Adaher. You voted for a morally corrupt man for immoral reasons. Own it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/107 "2017-08-29T18:22:16Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Racists enslaved people for 250 years in this country, then denied their descendants opportunities to this present day. The “antifa” boogeyman Adaher is making up out of thin cloth have quite a ways to go to even come close to warranting a thread, much less… how’d he put it… “outpacing the racists.” > > Stop this equivalency bullshit Adaher. You voted for a morally corrupt man for immoral reasons. Own it. I’m pretty sure he voted for Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/108 "2017-08-29T18:24:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Our end goal is to prevent fascism from taking hold in this country. “Our?” Ok, so you claim to be a member of a violent group. Do you think your group’s tactic of assaulting peaceful people is going to accomplish that stated goal? And do you honestly think that if Trump was truly a fascist he would tolerate SCA wannabes assaulting his people? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/109 "2017-08-29T18:29:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m pretty sure he voted for Clinton. Yeah, you’re right. I withdraw the final two lines. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/110 "2017-08-29T18:41:33Z")
Eh, I don’t mind, it’s entirely reasaonble to assume. But antifa isn’t made up of whole cloth, and Vox even took the trouble to write an article about how they are probably going to hurt the very cause they are fighting for: > **[The case against antifa](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/29/16216346/antifa-violence)** > > The anti-fascist movement often deploys violence in its protests — and that could seriously backfire. It is SO easy to blow these things up and get middle class Americans siding with people they normally wouldn’t side with. IT’s been done before. Now there’s really nothing the mainstream left needs to do here. I think that for the most part they’ve made it clear these people are not doing what they do in their name. What really needs to happen is for police to start getting control of these outbursts. Both at Berkely and at Charlottesville they were too gentle even after things got out of hand. Maybe this is my law and order side coming out, but the scariest gang should always be the police. Anyone who dares to screw with them should get their skulls cracked and spend a long time in the pokey. If a black kid in the inner city punches a cop he gets the book thrown at him. If white college kids do it, they should get the same treatment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/111 "2017-08-29T18:44:05Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > **Okay, now it’s time to put antifa in the same class as racists** > > Why must you tie them to racists? Can’t you oppose them on their own merits? > [@adaher](#): > > Not tie them to racists, just note that their level of violence is similar, and if they keep this up will soon easily outpace the racists. **Bobot** has it exactly correct. You are not going to get traction by trying to look for some equivalency since “racists” have a long, long history of violence and oppression in the US and easily outnumber the antifa yahoos. What you will end up looking like is that you are trying to minimize the threat of the radical right, which consists of white nationalists, actual KKKers and various militia groups with a racialist agenda. Those groups, when taken together, have members that number into the millions. I’ve not seen any official numbers on Antifa in the US, but I would be surprised if the number more than the 10s of thousands. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/112 "2017-08-29T18:55:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bobot** has it exactly correct. You are not going to get traction by trying to look for some equivalency since “racists” have a long, long history of violence and oppression in the US and easily outnumber the antifa yahoos. What you will end up looking like is that you are trying to minimize the threat of the radical right, which consists of white nationalists, actual KKKers and various militia groups with a racialist agenda. Those groups, when taken together, have members that number into the millions. I’ve not seen any official numbers on Antifa in the US, but I would be surprised if the number more than the 10s of thousands. Also they tend to show up to protest in opposition to white supremacist/neo-nazi/KKK rallies, while the racists scum gather to boost their own moral. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/113 "2017-08-29T18:56:11Z")
If there numbers are indeed in the millions then there’s a lot of people who might need to be told that they are utterly screwed. If you’re looking at right-wingers willing to use violence vs. left-wingers willing to use violence, right now, in 2017, I’d say the numbers are close to even, and in most demonstrations the antifas have outnumbered the right-wing peaceful demonstrators. A small group of unarmed people throwing fists aren’t going to disperse a crowd larger than them. These thugs have been overwhelming relatively small, peaceful groups of right-wingers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/114 "2017-08-29T18:57:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Also they tend to show up to protest in opposition to white supremacist/neo-nazi/KKK rallies, while the racists scum gather to boost their own moral. Actually, they’ll come out for anything conservative these days. Good thing the Tea Party protests are over, antifa would be out in force for those if they happened now. The streets would be littered with seniors with broken hips and ankles. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/115 "2017-08-29T19:04:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, they’ll come out for anything conservative these days. Good thing the Tea Party protests are over, antifa would be out in force for those if they happened now. The streets would be littered with seniors with broken hips and ankles. Well, those senile old twats have a lot to answer for. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/116 "2017-08-29T19:10:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If there numbers are indeed in the millions then there’s a lot of people who might need to be told that they are utterly screwed. > > If you’re looking at right-wingers willing to use violence vs. left-wingers willing to use violence, right now, in 2017, I’d say the numbers are close to even, and in most demonstrations the antifas have outnumbered the right-wing peaceful demonstrators. A small group of unarmed people throwing fists aren’t going to disperse a crowd larger than them. These thugs have been overwhelming relatively small, peaceful groups of right-wingers. Nope. You are confusing a small number of Antifa types who show up at these rallies with the larger number of peaceful folks who show up as a counter-protest of the right wingers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/117 "2017-08-29T19:19:37Z")
Nope. If you read the articles, the violent left wingers outnumber the peaceful rightwingers and drive them off. Sure, there’s an even larger group of peaceful left wing demonstrators, but if there really were as many or more, violent right-wingers they’d be meeting force with force. If you’re right about their numbers, they’ll be out soon enough and that’s when things really get out of hand and Charlottesville looks like a minor incident. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/118 "2017-08-29T19:24:19Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Yeesh, that’s a stretch. Gimme a Dylann Roof or Timothy McVeigh example in modern America. McVeigh attacked the government, claiming that their actions against their citizens was the behavior of an out of control entity. > **[The McVeigh letters](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/may/06/mcveigh.usa)** > > The indepth letters Timothy McVeigh invited the Observer to look at were sent to the safekeeping of his friend Bob Papovich who had up until now been told that the correspondence was to be kept 'off-the-record'. So putting him in the Nazi camp is a bit of a stretch - he is closer to antifa in his writings. (ETA - closer to their anti-government beliefs and actions that is). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/119 "2017-08-29T19:27:34Z")
The numbers I was originally referring to are the number of people in the groups, not the numbers you find at any one protest. The danger of violence is not confined to protests. The danger to the country of violence from right wing fringe groups is much greater than that from the left, as attested to by the FBI statistics. That is a fact. That is not to minimize the actions of those Antifa types at the protests, but that is just a fraction of the violence perpetrated by such fringe groups. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922/120 "2017-08-29T19:52:35Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Links? Well yes, I’d assume they’re linked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-its-time-to-put-antifa-in-the-same-class-as-racists/794922.md?page=7)