# okay. Now you disgust me Madonna. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861 "2006-10-25T17:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/41 "2006-10-25T20:30:14Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] That’s a man who loves his son, but I think the government is assuming WAY too much. What makes them think the boy would come back? [/QUOTE] I thought that too. It will be Madonna’s job to keep him connected with his heritage, but he will have every chance to sell out. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/42 "2006-10-25T20:31:16Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Your parents didn’t have a choice. She fell in love with one and was told she might not be able to take him. So what? Does that mean your parents are somehow BETTER than her? [/QUOTE] You were the one who brought up my parents, not me. I was just trying to show that the two situations are not the same. > [@](#): > > You don’t think that the fact that she’s world famous has any bearing on her wanting to keep the accompanying static to a minimum with regard to the baby? Of course she got out of there as quickly as she could. That’s how she operates all the time to protect her privacy. I think that if she wanted to show her sincerity, that was not the best way to go about it. > [@](#): > > The fact that her adoption was different (and better) than your parents doesn’t make her a bad person. Your parents would have cut corners (and shopped around, most likely) if they had the opportunity. The constricts of the American system doesn’t make them more suitable for adoption. Would they have, really? I think you owe my parents an apology for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/43 "2006-10-25T20:36:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] You were the one who brought up my parents, not me. I was just trying to show that the two situations are not the same. I think that if she wanted to show her sincerity, that was not the best way to go about it. Would they have, really? I think you owe my parents an apology for that one. [/QUOTE] How do I owe them an apology? You think they _wanted_ to contend with all the red tape? You think that if the officials gave them a break on it that they would have said, “No…we’re enjoying the suspense…drag it out another year if you can.”? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/44 "2006-10-25T20:40:16Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] How do I owe them an apology? You think they _wanted_ to contend with all the red tape? You think that if the officials gave them a break on it that they would have said, “No…we’re enjoying the suspense…drag it out another year if you can.”? [/QUOTE] First of all, you didn’t only say that they would have worked outside the system (an unwarranted charge, no matter WHAT you think they would have preferred), but you also said they probably would have shopped around. Just because YOU think this is the appropriate way to run adoption, not everyone thinks so. You don’t know my parents. Maybe you should just refrain from commenting on what you think their actions mean and what their preferences are. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/45 "2006-10-25T20:45:08Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] As I said, it’s just my impression. It’s an opinion, based on what I have read. Sure, maybe she is sincere, and I hope she is, for that boy’s sake. The whole thing just seems a little too calculated to me. And you know what? I thought it was kind of funny that you called me a fucking idiot over my opinions of a rather obnoxious celebrity. But I really think you have NO call whatsoever to tell me who I should donate to, or question my own charitable works. You don’t have any idea what I do or don’t do for ANY disadvantaged group. Make a donation yourself if it it will make you feel that you are as good of a person as you apparently think Madonna is. [/QUOTE] No, moron, I called you a fucking idiot for spewing out bullshit on a subject you clearly know nothing about; Madonna, the history of her charitable works, her contribution to the entire Malawi orphan population, and her desire to adopt this particular boy. You don’t even have the first fucking clue how many international adoptions _work_. YES, numbnuts, in many countries you can go to an orphanage and actually pick out a child! The whole world isn’t just like the United States. Whatta surprise! And suggesting you _might_ have room to talk if you were willing to put your money where your bigass mouth is, is hardly the same as telling you “who [you] should donate to.” But we already established with your first post that reading for comprehension isn’t your strong suit, so no surprise there, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/46 "2006-10-25T20:50:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] First of all, you didn’t only say that they would have worked outside the system (an unwarranted charge, no matter WHAT you think they would have preferred), but you also said they probably would have shopped around. Just because YOU think this is the appropriate way to run adoption, not everyone thinks so. You don’t know my parents. Maybe you should just refrain from commenting on what you think their actions mean and what their preferences are. [/QUOTE] And maybe you should take your own advice and quit second-guessing what someone else’s motivation is behind adoption. Or are the rules just for everyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/47 "2006-10-25T20:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] No, moron, I called you a fucking idiot for spewing out bullshit on a subject you clearly know nothing about; Madonna, the history of her charitable works, her contribution to the entire Malawi orphan population, and her desire to adopt this particular boy. You don’t even have the first fucking clue how many international adoptions _work_. YES, numbnuts, in many countries you can go to an orphanage and actually pick out a child! The whole world isn’t just like the United States. Whatta surprise! And suggesting you _might_ have room to talk if you were willing to put your money where your bigass mouth is, is hardly the same as telling you “who [you] should donate to.” But we already established with your first post that reading for comprehension isn’t your strong suit, so no surprise there, either. [/QUOTE] Wow. You get awfully angry when defending celebrites. I hope Madonna is worthy of your passionate defense of her. There is nothing in my post that indicated that I misunderstood any of what you say (except, maybe, the specifics of what charitable work she has done over there.) I am sorry if it is my provincial American attitude that makes me feel this way, but I think it is obnoxious to visit an orphanage, scan the available children, and say “I want THAT one.” I couldn’t care less who is doing it. Especially when many of the children are probably old enough to know what is going on. They used to do it that way here in the U.S., and it is hurtful to children who get passed over. I know many people who have adopted internationally, from all parts of the globe, and NONE of them have EVER used this method. I am not sure that I am the one who is ignorant about how things are usually done. Again, none of what I say has anything to do with where I put my money, or where Madonna puts her money, or whether or not I think that orphanages in Africa are a worthwhile cause. Who has trouble with reading comprehension? ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/48 "2006-10-25T20:54:02Z")
Before we get all hot and bothered about this lets wait until that kid is an adult, then ask him if he’d rather have grown up in that orphanage in Malawi or ben raised by Madonna’s nanny. I don’t care what Madoona’s motives are, and getting worked up about them is beside the point. That kid is better off because of her. _That’s_ the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/49 "2006-10-25T20:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] And maybe you should take your own advice and quit second-guessing what someone else’s motivation is behind adoption. Or are the rules just for everyone else? [/QUOTE] You don’t see the difference between discussing an international celebrity’s motivation and discussing my parents? I’ll tell you what…I’ll take my own advice and not call any dopers’ parents onto the carpet over anything. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/50 "2006-10-25T21:01:14Z")
I would add to what I said before that I _hope_ adopting poor kids from the Third World becomes fashionable for rich peple! I hope it becomes so fashionable that every millionaire on the planet feels compelled to adopt multiple such children. It might be the only way to develop a sense of caring for what goes on in those countries. And when those children grow to adulthood, with access to their parents’ money and connections, they might feel compelled to actually do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/51 "2006-10-25T21:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] You don’t see the difference between discussing an international celebrity’s motivation and discussing my parents? I’ll tell you what…I’ll take my own advice and not call any dopers’ parents onto the carpet over anything. [/QUOTE] No, I see no difference at all. I didn’t call you parents on the carpet. You know damn well that if your parents would have received permission to speed up the paperwork, they would have. And you’re being disingenuous to pretend otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/52 "2006-10-25T21:10:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] No, I see no difference at all. I didn’t call you parents on the carpet. You know damn well that if your parents would have received permission to speed up the paperwork, they would have. And you’re being disingenuous to pretend otherwise. [/QUOTE] Not if it meant that they had an advantage that others didn’t, because of some kind of status or money that they had. And you are being insulting to assume otherwise. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/53 "2006-10-25T21:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Not if it meant that they had an advantage that others didn’t, because of some kind of status or money that they had. And you are being insulting to assume otherwise. Seriously. [/QUOTE] Seriously…think about what you said and apply that to your holier-than-thou attitude toward Madonna. Rather unchristian of you to assume the worst with no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/54 "2006-10-25T21:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] You don’t see the difference between discussing an international celebrity’s motivation and discussing my parents? [/QUOTE] I don’t see a difference. I don’t know what sort of a person Madonna really is. I have no way to guess what her motivations are in adopting a kid. I don’t know how she really feels about it, or how she might have acted in different circumstances. All of these are equally true of what I know about your parents. If you can second guess Madonna’s motivations in adopting her kid, it seems to me that second guessing your parents motivations in adopting you should be fair game. Or does the fact that Madonna can sing and dance somehow preclude her from being given the same benefit of the doubt you’d give to anyone else in her situation? > [@](#): > > Not if it meant that they had an advantage that others didn’t, because of some kind of status or money that they had. And you are being insulting to assume otherwise. Seriously. The fact that your parents were allowed to adopt _at all_ means they were getting an advantage because they had status and money that other people don’t have. They don’t just hand out infants like it’s a free prize in a box of Crackerjacks. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/55 "2006-10-25T21:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Seriously…think about what you said and apply that to your holier-than-thou attitude toward Madonna. Rather unchristian of you to assume the worst with no evidence. [/QUOTE] I think I know a little bit more about Madonna than you know about my parents. I judge her only on her own actions and words. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/56 "2006-10-25T21:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I think I know a little bit more about Madonna than you know about my parents. I judge her only on her own actions and words. [/QUOTE] And you’re getting judged in return. I think there’s a famous quote about that somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/57 "2006-10-25T21:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] > [@](#): > > I don’t see a difference. I don’t know what sort of a person Madonna really is. I have no way to guess what her motivations are in adopting a kid. I don’t know how she really feels about it, or how she might have acted in different circumstances. All of these are equally true of what I know about your parents. If you can second guess Madonna’s motivations in adopting her kid, it seems to me that second guessing your parents motivations in adopting you should be fair game. Even if I was not the one who brought up my adoption in this thread, and I find it completely irrelevant? Discuss motivations in adoption all you want, but please leave my parents out of it…ESPECIALLY if you are going to make assumptions about their ethics (not that you did this, **Miller** ). > [@](#): > > Or does the fact that Madonna can sing and dance somehow preclude her from being given the same benefit of the doubt you’d give to anyone else in her situation? Look, Madonna never has hidden her desire to put herself out there. I think that if you are a celebrity that is doing something of questionable ethics, you have to expect that people will question it. > [@](#): > > The fact that your parents were allowed to adopt _at all_ means they were getting an advantage because they had status and money that other people don’t have. They don’t just hand out infants like it’s a free prize in a box of Crackerjacks. That may be true, but they worked with the system as it was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/58 "2006-10-25T21:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] And you’re getting judged in return. I think there’s a famous quote about that somewhere… [/QUOTE] I have no problem being judged for anything I say on this board. My problem was with what was said about my parents, not what was said about me. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/59 "2006-10-25T21:38:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Wow. You get awfully angry when defending celebrites. I hope Madonna is worthy of your passionate defense of her. [/quote] No, I get defensive when faced with bold-faced ignorance. _Especially_ when said ignorance is being spewed against someone’s charitable works, and _most_ especially when it comes from someone like you who’s pretty much against more than the most minimal “safety net” of government involvement in feeding and housing the poor, pretending to advocate a more one-on-one approach to helping the needy, yet when someone you don’t approve of steps up to the plate and does just that, you question their motives and dis them for their efforts. Make up your mind – you can’t have it both ways. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I am sorry if it is my provincial American attitude that makes me feel this way, but I think it is obnoxious to visit an orphanage, scan the available children, and say “I want THAT one.” I couldn’t care less who is doing it. Especially when many of the children are probably old enough to know what is going on. They used to do it that way here in the U.S., and it is hurtful to children who get passed over. No, you’re not sorry at all, so once again, quit pretending. Your world-view is so fucking narrow that you not only expect everyone to do things the way the United States does, but if they don’t, they’re wrong. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I think I know a little bit more about Madonna than you know about my parents. I judge her only on her own actions and words. Now there’s a good one! I proved to you just how little you do know about Madonna in my very first post in this thread. And yet you have the audacity to claim a deep enough knowledge of her to judge her motivations for adopting this little boy. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861/60 "2006-10-25T21:47:25Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] No, I get defensive when faced with bold-faced ignorance. _Especially_ when said ignorance is being spewed against someone’s charitable works, [/QUOTE] So adopting this child was just another one of her “charitable works.” THAT is precisely what I have a problem with. > [@](#): > > and _most_ especially when it comes from someone like you who’s pretty much against more than the most minimal “safety net” of government involvement in feeding and housing the poor, pretending to advocate a more one-on-one approach to helping the needy, yet when someone you don’t approve of steps up to the plate and does just that, you question their motives and dis them for their efforts. I applaud her for every effort to help the children who so desperately need help. I just don’t happen to think that there should be a deeper reason for adopting a child than to be symbolic of these efforts. If this is not what she has done, then I applaud her even more…but I just have my doubts. > [@](#): > > Make up your mind – you can’t have it both ways. No, you’re not sorry at all, so once again, quit pretending. Your world-view is so fucking narrow that you not only expect everyone to do things the way the United States does, but if they don’t, they’re wrong. Hurting children IS wrong, no matter who does it. My worldview is certainly narrow enough to be able to understand that. > [@](#): > > Now there’s a good one! I proved to you just how little you do know about Madonna in my very first post in this thread. And yet you have the audacity to claim a deep enough knowledge of her to judge her motivations for adopting this little boy. All you showed is that I did not know the SPECIFICS of what she has done, charity-wise. I wasn’t talking about any of that, either. Being interested in adoption issues, I have followed the story of the adoption pretty closely, and I don’t think you demonstrated anywhere that I have a misunderstanding of it. And, incidentally, I am not judging…I am questioning. There is a big difference. > [@](#): > > Shame on you. Whatever. I feel really bad about questioning whether the right thing has been done by this little boy. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-now-you-disgust-me-madonna/377861.md?page=4)