# "Okay" sign NOT? High School Year book pulled
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 17, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117 "2019-05-17T14:50:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/41 "2019-05-17T18:13:31Z")
> [@steronz](#):
>
> That’s a false dichotomy and you’re smart enough to know that.
The school administrators don’t seem to know that.
> [@email to parent](#):
>
> … Regardless of intent, the potential negative impact of this gesture has led us to decide that we cannot distribute the yearbook as is …
Not only can’t they tell if the gesture is racist or not, they don’t care. They pulled the yearbook anyway.
They were successfully trolled. 4chan is giggling from under their bridge.
If you don’t care if you are being trolled or not, you’re gonna get trolled.
Next up - no waving. Because that’s what they did to the Jews when they were being hauled off in trains!
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/42 "2019-05-17T18:20:12Z")
I missed where the school called anyone a racist.
---
### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/43 "2019-05-17T18:36:11Z")
> [@steronz](#):
>
> … We’ve got 3 possibilities –
>
> 1. The school administrators are easily triggered liberal snowflakes
> 2. The school is simply making a slightly difference calculation and erring on the side of not giving racists a platform, even though they don’t suspect actual racism and fully understand the history and trollish nature of this “prank”
> 3. There’s more to the story that we don’t know and the school is 1000% in the right
> …
I go by the facts as presented in the email I was sent. There is no accusation of the okay sign having been done as a prank or with bad intent. The issue is exclusively that the in addition to its usually understood meaning “the gesture has more recently become associated with white nationalism”, and that association is _by itself_ enough to not risk a “potential negative impact”, again, “regardless of intent”.
I do not think that means that the school administrators are easily triggered liberal snowflakes, liberal though they may be, but I do think it means that they are excessively worried about not appearing sensitive enough to those who might claim being racially offended, and who tend to be loud. They’d rather the bad press of excessive concern about those issues than any noise about not caring enough about them.
---
### Author:  [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/44 "2019-05-17T19:13:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> I go by the facts as presented in the email I was sent. There is no accusation of the okay sign having been done as a prank or with bad intent. The issue is exclusively that the in addition to its usually understood meaning “the gesture has more recently become associated with white nationalism”, and that association is _by itself_ enough to not risk a “potential negative impact”, again, “regardless of intent”.
>
> I do not think that means that the school administrators are easily triggered liberal snowflakes, liberal though they may be, but I do think it means that they are excessively worried about not appearing sensitive enough to those who might claim being racially offended, and who tend to be loud. They’d rather the bad press of excessive concern about those issues than any noise about not caring enough about them.
That’s correct. They’re afraid of SJWs.
---
### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/45 "2019-05-17T19:22:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> I go by the facts as presented in the email I was sent. There is no accusation of the okay sign having been done as a prank or with bad intent. The issue is exclusively that the in addition to its usually understood meaning “the gesture has more recently become associated with white nationalism”, and that association is _by itself_ enough to not risk a “potential negative impact”, again, “regardless of intent”.
>
> I do not think that means that the school administrators are easily triggered liberal snowflakes, liberal though they may be, but I do think it means that they are excessively worried about not appearing sensitive enough to those who might claim being racially offended, and who tend to be loud. They’d rather the bad press of excessive concern about those issues than any noise about not caring enough about them.
Does the email say what they plan to do with the yearbooks? Are they just all going in the dumpster? Is there any thought to obscuring/removing the pictures in question and distributing them anyway? It seems that if it’s just one or a few pictures, this should be “fixable” with a sharpie or an exacto knife, though obviously I have no idea how many books we’re talking about.
---
### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/46 "2019-05-17T19:34:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> Should sensitivity to the possibility of offense go to this point?
I came from an era where, if they spotted someone making bunny ears behind someone’s head in a school photo, it was airbrushed out. So I can’t get on board with righteous indignation.
And for the record,[this photo of the 1965 St. Louis Cardinals was reshot.](https://thebig1070.iheart.com/content/2018-04-02-ueckers-greatest-moment-as-a-cardinal/)
---
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/47 "2019-05-17T19:43:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Unfortunately, DNFTT doesn’t work any better in real life than it does on the Internet. Letting 4chan control the public discourse is a bad idea, but there are always going to be people who fall for it. And catering to the gullible and over-sensitive is a growth industry.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
In this case, though, actual white supremacists (such as the NZ shooter, for example, and those politicians mentioned elsewhere in this thread) have adopted the symbol at face value. Is it catering to the gullible and over-sensitive if actual bigots use the symbol un-ironically?
Basically, it has become an actual white power symbol when used in certain contexts, especially when held in certain ways. If someone doesn’t want to be mistaken for a racist, they should avoid racist symbolism.
I can try and wear swastikas and claim it’s because of some Indian heritage, but I shouldn’t be surprised if people take it wrong.
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/48 "2019-05-17T19:55:38Z")
Question – isn’t the “okay” sign ASL? I swear I read that somewhere.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/49 "2019-05-17T20:00:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> I do not think that means that the school administrators are easily triggered liberal snowflakes, liberal though they may be, but I do think it means that they are excessively worried about not appearing sensitive enough to those who might claim being racially offended, and who tend to be loud. They’d rather the bad press of excessive concern about those issues than any noise about not caring enough about them.
I don’t see how being liberal has anything to do with it. The administrators are a bunch of dumbasses who need to be relieved ASAP from their duties, since they have miserably failed at them, ie the proper education of youth.
Their political persuasion are irrelevant.
---
### Author:  [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/50 "2019-05-17T20:01:09Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> In this case, though, actual white supremacists (such as the NZ shooter, for example, and those politicians mentioned elsewhere in this thread) have adopted the symbol at face value. Is it catering to the gullible and over-sensitive if actual bigots use the symbol un-ironically?
>
> Basically, it has become an actual white power symbol when used in certain contexts, especially when held in certain ways. If someone doesn’t want to be mistaken for a racist, they should avoid racist symbolism.
>
> I can try and wear swastikas and claim it’s because of some Indian heritage, but I shouldn’t be surprised if people take it wrong.
mmmm…Holocaust…4chan…they seem kinda different
---
### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/51 "2019-05-17T20:02:48Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> I came from an era where, if they spotted someone making bunny ears behind someone’s head in a school photo, it was airbrushed out. So I can’t get on board with righteous indignation.
>
> And for the record,[this photo of the 1965 St. Louis Cardinals was reshot.](https://thebig1070.iheart.com/content/2018-04-02-ueckers-greatest-moment-as-a-cardinal/)
It sounds like the yearbooks have been printed & delivered to the school, so there’s no airbrushing option available at this point.
---
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/52 "2019-05-17T20:16:57Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#):
>
> mmmm…Holocaust…4chan…they seem kinda different
Thank you for that excellent insight. Here’s the thing, it’s not 4chan, it’s actual white supremacists using the symbol. So, your reference to 4chan is out of date. Regarding the idea that symbol meanings can change and one symbol vs. the other, maybe this will help: [Analogy - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy)
You see, the swastika used to not have the meaning ascribed to it by the Nazis, and then it did. The OK sign never had any white supremacy meanings and now, depending on the usage and context, it does. Let me know if you have any questions.
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/53 "2019-05-17T20:19:28Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> In this case, though, actual white supremacists (such as the NZ shooter, for example, and those politicians mentioned elsewhere in this thread) have adopted the symbol at face value. Is it catering to the gullible and over-sensitive if actual bigots use the symbol un-ironically?
It’s catering to the gullible and over-sensitive if you don’t care whether it is being used ironically, un-ironically, or for reasons having nothing to do with race.
Read the email from the administrators. They didn’t know or care what the intent was - they were afraid not to cater to the gullible and over-sensitive. Which is why the 4chan trolls can usually be assured of a target-rich environment. There are always some idiots who are afraid not to fall for it.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/54 "2019-05-17T20:20:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Question – isn’t the “okay” sign ASL? I swear I read that somewhere.
[Yes and no.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_gesture#American_Sign_Language)
---
### Author:  [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/55 "2019-05-17T20:42:46Z")
You know what I’d like to see when something like this happens?
Have every POC in the school get together for a group shot, all showing the same and sign, and caption it something like “It’s ok to be me!”
Put a wrench their little “let’s let each other know we’re racists while hiding it from other people” games.
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/56 "2019-05-17T20:43:08Z")
Society nowadays is completely unequipped to deal with fundamental liberties. Instead of learning to deal with the triggering OK sign or whatever it needs to be completely eradicated. Well, the real world doesn’t work that way. People are going to push buttons because the response is entertaining. The solution is to not worry to an unhealthy extreme about what other people think.
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/57 "2019-05-17T21:00:50Z")
The moron who got himself banned from Wrigley Field entertained the shit out of himself.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/58 "2019-05-17T21:08:52Z")
> [@Sailboat](#):
>
> I _guarantee_ you that, with possible lone exceptions like your kid, high schoolers as a group are _keenly_ aware of the gesture’s racist significance.
Daughter briefly home from school and discussed before running out to work out with friends.
One. If this was one of my boys I’d say maybe. They were a pretty socially out of the loop lot. Her? Nope. She travels with agility in and out of many social groupings and knows what is known. In this school at least teens are pretty clueless of the gesture’s recent adoption by White nationalist at least in all the circles she travels in (including the boy athletes to the eggheads and mixed across the SES and racial groups).
Your _guarantee_ don’t mean too much to me. My daughter’s report does.
She has friends who worked on the yearbook so has some detail regarding the actual photo. Hand held upright above the shoulder taken of a yearbook staffer saying okay. No prank intended and no racist message intended. All approved by administrators before going to the printer.
> [@UnwittingAmericans](#):
>
> That’s correct. They’re afraid of SJWs.
No.
We are a community filled with people who would proudly self-describe as being willing to fight for social justice and who do not see that label as anything other than a good thing. They are not afraid of us. They are afraid of being labelled or maybe even thought of as insensitive. They are afraid of a certain sort of press more than another.
> [@muldoonthief](#):
>
> Does the email say what they plan to do with the yearbooks? Are they just all going in the dumpster? Is there any thought to obscuring/removing the pictures in question and distributing them anyway? It seems that if it’s just one or a few pictures, this should be “fixable” with a sharpie or an exacto knife, though obviously I have no idea how many books we’re talking about.
The school has about 3700 students. The books are printed and were due to be distributed. They are “looking at alternative options, and in the coming days we will share further details …” It’s prom week end and I doubt the yearbook staff will give time up to Sharpie out a couple of thousand books over something they think is absurd. The administrators doing it? Yeah right. Get teachers to? Uh huh.
Maybe the community backlash will get them to revisit the decision … I dunno.
---
### Author:  [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/59 "2019-05-17T21:15:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> They are afraid of being labelled or maybe even thought of as insensitive. They are afraid of a certain sort of press more than another.
That’s exactly what I said.
---
### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 17, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-sign-not-high-school-year-book-pulled/834117/60 "2019-05-17T21:58:31Z")
That ≠ SJW. Fighting for actual social justice is not a derisive thing and not about press or noisemaking; it is something that we should all want to do. I would much rather hang with those who fight for social justice than those who fight against it! I don’t do it enough and I admire my friends who do it more. This is not an item of social justice and the press they fear would come from no warriors.
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