# Okay, so what is "Desi" ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738 "2002-12-01T05:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/1 "2002-12-01T05:00:57Z")
This has been driving me nuts for the past few weeks. I’ve heard references to it around campus, and even in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=143800&highlight=desi) thread–so what is it? I’m guessing it has something to do with South Asian/Indian culture, but what exactly does it mean to be “Desi”? ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/2 "2002-12-01T05:19:15Z")
Yep, desi is Hindi for Indian… we use it to describe anything that is Indian… a person, movies, food… anything… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/3 "2002-12-01T05:20:34Z")
Oh, okay–like, native Indian vs. born-in-the-U.S. Indian? ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/4 "2002-12-01T05:51:25Z")
As long as he’s Indian (or appears Indian) we are likely to call him desi. e.g. I go for my first trip to the U.S. I return and I tell my friends, “Oh man, there are so many desis in the U.S. They’re all over the place.” Now you realize that my conclusion (in the e.g.) was based merely on appearance, not necessarily place of birth. So, primarily desi means Indian person. But, as **gouda** says, it could also refer to things that are Indian. Des(h) means Country. Desi in Hindi (the national language of India) means “of the country”. **gouda** is a desi. Note that the word desi does not usually have a negative connotation. ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/5 "2002-12-01T13:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Note that the word desi does not usually have a negative connotation True in most cases, but sometimes, it does have negative connotations. For example, I wouldn’t touch desi booze, because I think the Scots do a much better job than we desis do. But that’s personal 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/6 "2002-12-01T14:35:24Z")
Wonderful–thanks so much, guys! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/7 "2002-12-01T14:50:03Z")
Alright then, so what’s a “Lucy”? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/8 "2002-12-01T15:25:59Z")
I was going to post, like a smart aleck: 1. Husband of Lucy. 2. Son of Lucy (i.e. Desi Jr.) 3. Somebody from India or Pakistan, or something connected with I. or P. But everybody else beat me to it. The Cuban name Desi is short for _Desidario_, Spanish for ‘the desired one’. The South Asian word _desi_ comes from the Sanskrit _deSa_, meaning ‘a country’. _The_ country is of course India. Just as the British colonialists in India referred to Britain as “Blighty.” That came from the Bengali _bilâyatî_, from Arabic _wilâyat_ meaning ‘a province, a realm’—Britain was of course _the_ realm to those imperialist blokes. I guess the word “blighter” was also derived from there. 🙂 Just kidding. The Sanskrit word _deSa_ (pronounced “day-sha”, or just “daysh” in Hindi) comes from the word _diSha_ ‘direction, cardinal point’ (north, south, east, west), and that comes from the verb _diShyate_ ‘to show, point out’. So picture the ancient Aryans as they first come into India. They say to each other, “Lo, forsooth, whither shall we bend our steps in this vast land?” The pathfinder **points** (_diShyate_) out a **direction** (_diSha_): “Thither lies our new country (_deSa_)!” Thus are words, along with nations, born. This Sanskrit verb ‘to point out’ comes from the Proto-Indo-European root **[\*deik-](http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE76.html)** ‘to pronounce solemnly; to show, to point’; also ‘finger’ (‘pointer’). In Latin it became _digitus_ ‘finger’ as well as _dicere_ ‘to say, tell’ — and that also produced _indicare_ ‘to point out, indicate’. In Old English it became _tæcan_ ‘to teach’ and also _tacn_ ‘a sign; token’. In Greek it became _diskos_, because a discus is something you aim in a particular direction. Even further back, it is connected to the Proto-World root \ ***TIK** ‘a finger; one; to point’. From this comes a huge number of words in many languages all over the world—from the idea of ‘finger’ comes the numberal ‘1’, and possible also the Old English word _ta_ ‘toe’, from Old Germanic \*_taikhwo_, from \*deik- (in the sense of ‘finger’), and words for ‘hand’ as well (connected to finger): Japanese _te_, for example, as in _kara-te_ ‘empty hand’. I have put my finger on the very ancient prehistoric roots of the word _ **desi** _, I have **indicated** its cousin words in other languages, **taught** us a **token** of the wealth to be found in a **diction** ary, and given us a **toe** hold on the thoughts of ancient peoples through this **digital** forum, which is now in the temp files of your hard **disk** , accessible through an in **dex**. 🙂 Not to speak of **paradigm, policy, vendetta** … Don’t **judge** me too harhsly (\<_jus-dex_, ‘to pronounce the law’). Can you think of another use of the Sanskrit word _deSa_ you’re all familiar with? Sure you can! “Bangladesh” (Sanskrit _Bamla deSha_, 'the country of Bengal). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/9 "2002-12-01T19:06:44Z")
Jesus, that was educational. 🙂 Thanks to you, too, **Jomo Mojo**. ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/10 "2002-12-01T19:50:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\* > The South Asian word _desi_ comes from the Sanskrit _deSa_, meaning ‘a country’. _The_ country is of course India. Just as the British colonialists in India referred to Britain as “Blighty.” That came from the Bengali _bilâyatî_, from Arabic _wilâyat_ meaning ‘a province, a realm’—Britain was of course _the_ realm to those imperialist blokes. \*\* [ Thanks for pointing out the Sanskrit Origin. > [@](#): > > \*\* So picture the ancient Aryans as they first come into India. They say to each other, “Lo, forsooth, whither shall we bend our steps in this vast land?” The pathfinder **points** (_diShyate_) out a **direction** (_diSha_): “Thither lies our new country (_deSa_)!” Thus are words, along with nations, born.\*\* 1\> It is disputed whether Aryans indeed came to India and if they brought Sanskrit to India. 2\> Although Indo-European languages have a common root, there is no evidence to show that the Aryan spoke Sanskrit. So, your Aryans speaking sanskrit maybe an dramatization. 3\> (_diShyate_ - not the way you say it. Sanskrit has the strictest grammar rules (some say its common with German). Verbs are different for - I see (Singular), We two see (Dual) and We all see (Plural). Additionally, there are three more cases. That makes it 9 cases, in each of the nice cases the verb is said written differently. I don’t have my conjugation table, but from what I remember _diShyaTee_ would be right for saying, I see. Incidentally, Nouns have eight cases three genders and three numbers. Its not an easy language to learn, but the sentences are really smaller conveying a larger meaning. “Bangladesh” (Sanskrit _Bamla deSha_, 'the country of Bengal). \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/11 "2002-12-02T02:38:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > **1\> It is disputed whether Aryans indeed came to India and if they brought Sanskrit to India.** Disputed by Hindu fundamentalists like Frawley and Kak, but not by any mainstream scholars. Either you must postulate that the Indo-European language family originated in India and spread to all other lands from there, or it originated outside India and migrated in. The latter is the only possibility that is taken seriously. > [@](#): > > **2\> Although Indo-European languages have a common root, there is no evidence to show that the Aryan spoke Sanskrit. So, your Aryans speaking sanskrit maybe an dramatization.** I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “Aryan.” I used it to mean the speakers of Sanskrit who were the earliest branch of Indo-European to enter India. This is the only current definition of Aryan that I’m aware of. The “dramatization,” as you call it, is just to give an example of how these words from the same root are semantically connected. > [@](#): > > \*\*3\> (_diShyate_ - not the way you say it. Sanskrit has the strictest grammar rules (some say its common with German). \*\* All right, _diSyate_ is the passive voice of this verb. I should have given the active form: _diSati_. My bad. I was typing it up in a hurry and picked up the wrong form from the book. There is a relationship between Sanskrit grammar and German grammar, sure, as well as with Latin, Greek, Slavic, Baltic, Celtic, Armenian, Hittite, and all the other Indo-European languages. But Sanskrit and German grammar, though the similarities are visible to someone trained in comparative linguistics, are nonetheless very different. If someone told you Sanskrit grammar is the same as German, they don’t know Sanskrit and they don’t know German. > [@](#): > > **Verbs are different for - I see (Singular), We two see (Dual) and We all see (Plural). Additionally, there are three more cases. That makes it 9 cases, in each of the nice cases the verb is said written differently. I don’t have my conjugation table, but from what I remember _diShyaTee_ would be right for saying, I see.** I’m afraid you have gotten this confused with a different verb. The root of ‘to see’ is _drSh_, but the funny thing about this verb is that in the present tense it is conjugated with the root _paS_ — so ‘I see’ is _paSyami_. ‘I saw’ is _adrâkSîm_. Correction: verbs have conjugations, not cases. Nouns have cases & declensions. ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/12 "2002-12-02T06:51:39Z")
Wow! I have been educated… ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/13 "2002-12-02T07:17:22Z")
I’ve heard it used by Pakistani & Bengali people as well, so it’s not restricted to India the country ( as it’s known today). Kind of generic for ‘South Asian’, I suppose. Not to start sharing insults, but there is a derogatory term associated with the word : “ABCD”, which stands for _American Born Confused Desi_, used of someone that (in the insulter’s opinion) has betrayed/ignored their desi heritage. One of my friends has had someone say it to him (although he wasn’t even born in the US). ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/14 "2002-12-02T07:22:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\*Disputed by Hindu fundamentalists like Frawley and Kak, but not by any mainstream scholars. Either you must postulate that the Indo-European language family originated in India and spread to all other lands from there, or it originated outside India and migrated in. The latter is the only possibility that is taken seriously. \*\* I am not an linguist or an historian. I don’t know what criteria you use to label Hindu fundamentalists or Mainstream Scholars. My point was that it was disputed. I postulate nothing, I am open to evidence and analysis. > [@](#): > > **I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “Aryan.” I used it to mean the speakers of Sanskrit who were the earliest branch of Indo-European to enter India. This is the only current definition of Aryan that I’m aware of. The “dramatization,” as you call it, is just to give an example of how these words from the same root are semantically connected.** I was not sure either when you called the migrants - "So picture the ancient Aryans as they first come into India."Again, whether the Aryan’s were the first Indo-Europeans to enter India is disputed. For all I know the “Aryans” in the theory which says Aryans migrated to India, were from Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Iraq is not an European country. > [@](#): > > **All right, _diSyate_ is the passive voice of this verb. I should have given the active form: _diSati_. My bad. I was typing it up in a hurry and picked up the wrong form from the book…** My Sanskrit is not so good. And from what I have read, _dis_ or more often it is written as _drish_ is used for vision and _pashya_ is used for seeing. So _drishti_ is vision as in capacity to see, _adrishya_ means invisible, _drishya_ means a scene, etc. _Aham Pashyami_. Would mean I see. Regarding, German and Sanskrit, I have no clue and take your words de-facto. > [@](#): > > \*\*Correction: verbs have conjugations, not cases. Nouns have cases & declensions. \*\* You are very right on that. ---
**Author:** ![twelfthsign](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@twelfthsign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twelfthsign)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/15 "2002-12-02T13:15:29Z")
I know a girl who’s second name is ‘Desi’. She’s Indonesian and has no Indian ethinicty. Beats me. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/16 "2002-12-02T22:45:19Z")
Indonesia and Malaysia use a lot of Sanskrit words. Many of the names there are Sanskrit. For example, Megawati means ‘lady of the clouds’ and Sukarnoputri means ‘Sukarno’s daughter’. Sukarno is from the Sanskrit meaning ‘having good ears’. Indonesia is called \*Indo-\*nesia for a good reason. They absorbed a lot of Indian civilization over the centuries. > [@](#): > > \*\*For all I know the “Aryans” in the theory which says Aryans migrated to India, were from Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Iraq is not an European country. \*\* The speakers of Proto-Indo-European are thought to have originated on the steppes north of the Black Sea, and from there expanded to India, Iran, Central Asia, Xinjiang, Anatolia, and most of Europe. The name “Indo-European” is just conventional and does not imply they necessarily belong either to India or to Europe. The name came from the observation that the language family had spread to India at one end of its extent and Europe at the other end. Aryan is one branch of Indo-European that included two branches: Iranian and Indo-Aryan. The ancient Iranians and the ancient Vedic people both called themselves “Arya.” As for their being in Iraq, you may be thinking of the presence of [Indo-Aryan speakers among the Mitanni kingdom of northern Mesopotamia](http://tied.narod.ru/tree/indo/mitanni.html), documented circa 1700 B.C. Cuneiform tablets were found with words that were not of the Mitanni language. They were found to be Indo-Aryan words, similar to Vedic Sanskrit. They had to do with horse training. The tablets also included numerals and the names of some Vedic gods. Apparently a population of Indo-Aryan speakers made their way to Mitanni somehow and found work as horse trainers. But no one has suggested that they originated from there. It was a place where their migrations took them for a while. > [@](#): > > **And from what I have read, _dis_ or more often it is written as _drish_ is used for vision and _pashya_ is used for seeing. So _drishti_ is vision as in capacity to see, _adrishya_ means invisible, _drishya_ means a scene, etc.** Those words are nouns and an adjective. I was talking about the verb conjugation. Besides, _diSh_ ‘to show’ (\ **Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/17 "2002-12-03T00:04:46Z") **Jomo** , you kill me! I was thinking the same thing when I opened this thread… Babaloo, baby! If you don’t know it now, you never will! …kindly continue with the informative banter… ---
**Author:** ![Yeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/dbc845/32.png) [@Yeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeah)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/18 "2002-12-03T01:43:37Z")
Besides having the name Desi in Indonesia, they also have the word desa, but it means village, not country. ---
**Author:** ![twelfthsign](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@twelfthsign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twelfthsign)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-desi/139738/19 "2002-12-03T06:11:37Z")
I’m enlightened. Yeah