# Okay, so what is the argument FOR parental consent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517 "2005-12-14T00:54:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/121 "2005-12-16T01:41:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > On one side you have the argument that the girl might be beaten bu her parents - bad logic, as I pointed out beating your child is a crime in itself. > > On the other side you have a frightened girl who now has the support of her parents and open lines of communication - a very good thing which is what we as a society want. If they had open lines of communication, she would tell them without being compelled by law. IMHO, the whole point of notification laws is to force girls into a position where parents can terrorize them into submission, or kill them. And yes, I think the majority of people who support such laws will do one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/122 "2005-12-16T01:59:50Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > That’s really all you’ve gotten out of this discussion? Are you just being disingenuous, or do you really believe that those are the only possible outcomes? I was pointing out the extreams and aruging that the beat your pregnant daughter is a non-issue as she is protected by law and she does have legal options. > [@](#): > > If you’ve argued that the parents have the right to make all decisions regarding a minor’s pregnancy, do you believe that means they have the right to make the girl have an abortion Sorry I missed this, but yes to be totally consistent the parents have the right to make all medical decisions for their children - The exception is if we grant the fetus human rights - untill that time it is just another medical procedure. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > If they had open lines of communication, she would tell them without being compelled by law. The lines were not open before, now they are due to the law. > [@](#): > > IMHO, the whole point of notification laws is to force girls into a position where parents can terrorize them into submission, or kill them. And yes, I think the majority of people who support such laws will do one or the other. > Reply With Quote I’ll grant you your humble O, but I don’t agree - but your O helps confirm my humble O that, well to put it nicely people who are afraid of Christains and blow things WAY out of proportion and event their own demons. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/123 "2005-12-16T03:05:59Z")
Originally Posted by DianaG For the record, let me tell you something about abortions. They’re expensive. And they hurt. No one is using them as birth control. Originally Posted by SaintCad I personally know at least three women who have had multiple abortions that were on no other birth control. So yes, some women use abortions as birth control. > [@cowgirl](#): > > Who exactly would be better off if these women were prevented from having abortions, ie obliged to have babies they don’t want? > [@Brain Glutton](#): > > So what? For the record I was not passing judgment, but rather disputing DianaG’s claim that “No one is using them as birth control.” As far as I’m concerned, any woman over 18 can get abortions until her uterus lining thickness is measured in mircons. > [@DianaG](#): > > If you’ve argued that the parents have the right to make all decisions regarding a minor’s pregnancy, do you believe that means they have the right to make the girl have an abortion? I have never stated this. Clearly parents do not have the right to decide if their daughter is going to engage in sexual intercourse that led to the pregnancy. And I never advocated forced abortions. I am simply addressing two points: If a girl is irresponsible enough to engage in behavior that leads to her teenage pregnancy, why is she responsible for unilaterally deciding to terminate that pregnancy? Is a very scared teen-age girl with little life experience the best person to have the ultimate say in this major life decision? I know that you equate this with right to forced abortion, but there is a fundamental difference between giving parents veto power over an abortion and allowing the parents to force an abortion. The argument that not allowing an abortion is equivalent to forcing the girl to bring a baby to term neglects one important fact: **Having a baby is a natural biological possibility if a person is engaged in sexual intercourse!** Thus if a girl engages in sexual intercourse, she is opening up herself to a variety of consequences, namely pregnancy and STD’s. If she has sex, she must be prepared for consequences. This is not to say that I am completely heartless. I would rather a 15 year-old get an abortion than throw a newborn in a dumpster. What I would favor is that parental consent is required with a method in place that would allow the girl to have a judge overrule the lack of consent with something more substancial than Girl: My dad will hit me. Judge: Go get your abortion. Is this an acceptable compromise or do you still advocate abortions on demand for 14 year-olds? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/124 "2005-12-16T03:24:12Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > I know that you equate this with right to forced abortion, but there is a fundamental difference between giving parents veto power over an abortion and allowing the parents to force an abortion. The argument that not allowing an abortion is equivalent to forcing the girl to bring a baby to term neglects one important fact: > > **Having a baby is a natural biological possibility if a person is engaged in sexual intercourse!** So is abortion ( stillbirth/miscarriage ). Besides, having a baby is a major moral choice; having an abortion isn’t, except in the minds of anti-choice true believers. Major emotional choice yes, moral, no. > [@SaintCad](#): > > Thus if a girl engages in sexual intercourse, she is opening up herself to a variety of consequences, namely pregnancy and STD’s. If she has sex, she must be prepared for consequences. Of course, and abortions are an effective means of dealing with some of those consequences. > [@SaintCad](#): > > This is not to say that I am completely heartless. I would rather a 15 year-old get an abortion than throw a newborn in a dumpster. What I would favor is that parental consent is required with a method in place that would allow the girl to have a judge overrule the lack of consent with something more substancial than > Girl: My dad will hit me. > Judge: Go get your abortion. In other words, if a father molests a girl, she should be forced to beg her rapist for an abortion. > [@SaintCad](#): > > Is this an acceptable compromise or do you still advocate abortions on demand for 14 year-olds? No; this is not an issue on which compromise is acceptable. You might as well compromise on slavery; which this is really a form of. In both cases, she doesn’t own her body. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/125 "2005-12-16T03:31:42Z")
> [@](#): > > If a girl is irresponsible enough to engage in behavior that leads to her teenage pregnancy, why is she responsible for unilaterally deciding to terminate that pregnancy? > > Is a very scared teen-age girl with little life experience the best person to have the ultimate say in this major life decision? > > I know that you equate this with right to forced abortion, but there is a fundamental difference between giving parents veto power over an abortion and allowing the parents to force an abortion. What’s the basis for giving the parent the power to veto but not to mandate? If the girl is too immature/irresponsible to make the ultimate decision, then she’s too immature/irresponsible to make the ultimate decison. She doesn’t suddenly become mature enough when her parent believes an abortion is the best decision and she doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/126 "2005-12-16T03:35:35Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > In other words, if a father molests a girl, she should be forced to beg her rapist for an abortion. > > No; this is not an issue on which compromise is acceptable. You might as well compromise on slavery; which this is really a form of. In both cases, she doesn’t own her body. You know as well as I that most abortion laws allow allow abortion on demand for cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother. These laws would be no exception. Slavery? So before 1865 a slave could go to court and get released? My books must have misinterpreted the Dred Scott decision. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/127 "2005-12-16T03:37:50Z")
Let’s have a show of hand here. How women here made the decision as teenagers that if you got pregnant you would abort, and have later come to realise as adults that that would not have been the best plan for you at the time? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/128 "2005-12-16T03:39:17Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > So is abortion ( stillbirth/miscarriage ). Besides, having a baby is a major moral choice; having an abortion isn’t, except in the minds of anti-choice true believers[. You’re wrong about this. Perhaps for you abortion is not a major moral choice, but there are plenty of people who believe that having an abortion is a major moral choice which pregnant women should be allowed to make for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/129 "2005-12-16T05:08:24Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > You’re wrong about this. Perhaps for you abortion is not a major moral choice, but there are plenty of people who believe that having an abortion is a major moral choice which pregnant women should be allowed to make for themselves. They can believe it’s a big moral decision, but it’s not. It’s her body, and a lump of flesh - there aren’t any major moral issues there. Having an abortion is no more morally important than having a wart removed. Like I said, it’s _emotionally_ important, but not morally. There’s nothing there to have moral issues _about_; morality requires a dispute between two people. And yes, that’s true even if a fetus has a soul; a mindless thing with a soul is no more of a moral agent than one without. > [@SaintCad](#): > > You know as well as I that most abortion laws allow allow abortion on demand for cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother. These laws would be no exception. And after these laws are passed, the exceptions will be eliminated. They make no sense; if abortion is murder, then such exceptions make no sense ( except the health one ), and anti-choice people are fundamentally the enemy of women. They will do whatever they can to hurt them. > [@SaintCad](#): > > Slavery? So before 1865 a slave could go to court and get released? My books must have misinterpreted the Dred Scott decision. Legalistic quibbling. If I own a woman’s body, she is my slave whether or not anyone uses the word. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/130 "2005-12-16T06:37:37Z")
BrainGlutton et al > [@](#): > > Ummm . . . no, it isn’t. Not unless the minor is under a specified age and the inseminator is over a specified age (each of which varies from state to state). I retract. I’m pretty certain I’d once read that (at least) in some states, it can be statutory rape even if both participants are minors, but clearly my use of the word “all” is incorrect. Nonetheless, I’d wager that the only real reason for an exception for minor-minor sex exists is not to imply that both parties are capable of informed consent but as a practical matter to prevent a flood of accusations and counter-accusations between the two parties to the act from choking the court system. jsgoddess: > [@](#): > > Continuing the pregnancy through inaction is also a choice. True, but it’s a choice that requires no consultation with an outside party, so a consent rule would be unenforcable. Ideally, the minor would consult with someone mature before choosing either option, but in the case of seeking an abortion, there is a way to force said consultation, and in the case of letting nature take its course, there is no way to do that. (bolding below mine) > [@](#): > > I think the minor has to give as informed a consent to whichever option because she’s the only person **who can.** How so? The fact that she will be most heavily affected by this choice does not instantly give her the maturity or wisdom to consider her choosing to be informed. Der Trihs: > [@](#): > > Then how can she consent to having a baby? There is no option that does not involve her making a major decision, or being coerced. None. See my reply above to **jsgoddess**. > [@](#): > > Therefore, parents should not be allowed a say in the matter. The parents are assumed to be taking advantage of their minor daughter? That runs counter to the assumption on which all legal parental authority - which extends to pretty much every facet of a minor’s life, with this notable exception of abortion - is based. Parents are assumed to be acting in the best interests of their children, and are empowered to do so because their judgment is assumed to be more sound and more mature than that of their minor children. I have yet to see someone put forth a reason why this is not true of pregnancy-related decisions as well. > [@](#): > > And who should decide if the parents are likely to be abusive about this? How about the local Child Welfare authorities? If there’s some evidence of abusive tendencies, let’s have an investigation or record of it. Let’s not rely on the fear of a teenager who clearly knows she did something her parents would consider wrong, nor on her willingness to exaggerate reasonable parental discipline into actual abuse. > [@](#): > > Who knows them better? The child. I disagree. The child is afraid of being disciplined. It is never pleasant to be told you’ve done wrong, it’s never pleasant to deal with parental disapproval of one’s actions, and it’s never pleasant to be punished. This does not, in the large majority of circumstances, constitue abuse, but I have little doubt that in the mind of a confused and frightened teenager, it will be thought of as such. > [@](#): > > Besides, we’re talking about a relatively old child here, not a three year old; they don’t have the judgement of an adult, but they aren’t the giggling morons some people seem to think. Be that as it may, we draw a line in our society, based on chronological age, for what one is legally allowed to do. We don’t consider them mature enough to enter into a contractual agreement, even if they are not “giggling idiots” - no difference between 3 and 17. If you wish to argue that there should be some other line drawn for pregnancy decisions, I’d be willing to hear the argument for that, but I certainly don’t think that the ability to get pregnant (or to impregnate, for that matter, but males are kind of moot to this discussion) indicates some improved judgment ability. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/131 "2005-12-16T07:31:37Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Nonetheless, I’d wager that the only real reason for an exception for minor-minor sex exists is not to imply that both parties are capable of informed consent but as a practical matter to prevent a flood of accusations and counter-accusations between the two parties to the act from choking the court system. Are there any other crimes they’ve decriminalized to prevent “a flood of accusations and counter-accusations”? In Czechoslovakia they recently lowered the age of consent to 14, with the stated reason that “our minds and bodies mature more quickly in this day in age.” I doubt the US bases their laws on some other completely different theory. Statutory rape laws are not to prevent kids from having sex, they are to prevent older predators from taking advantage of kids. > [@](#): > > How so? The fact that she will be most heavily affected by this choice does not instantly give her the maturity or wisdom to consider her choosing to be informed. It just doesn’t take a lot of maturity and wisdom to figure out you don’t want to be a teenage mother. This isn’t some minor thing with multiple nuanced choices. Either you have a baby or you don’t. Most people have a very strong opinion on it. Ask around. Do you hear anyone saying “well, maybe…” And few people are sitting there going “Gee, I wish I had had the maturity and wisdom to have a baby at fifteen!” > [@](#): > > The parents are assumed to be taking advantage of their minor daughter? That runs counter to the assumption on which all legal parental authority - which extends to pretty much every facet of a minor’s life, with this notable exception of abortion - is based. Parents are assumed to be acting in the best interests of their children, and are empowered to do so because their judgment is assumed to be more sound and more mature than that of their minor children. I have yet to see someone put forth a reason why this is not true of pregnancy-related decisions as well. There are many examples where parents do not get to make important choices and may never even know those choices are being made. Children don’t need parental permission to choose their classes, which determines if they will go to college or not. Few parents could even tell you when their kids did the actual signing up. Children do not need parental authority or notification to get many medical procedures- notably substance abuse treatment and STD treatment. Children do not need a parent’s authority to get birth control. Indeed, a child can make any purchase she wishes to as long as it is not an age-restricted item. There are also lots of decisions that parents cannot make for their children. For example, they cannot pull them out of school before a certain age. They can’t decide to throw a nice booze party for their kid’s sweet sixteen. I’d argue that pregnancy has such long lasting effects on both the pregnant person, the child, and society at large that it’s one of those things that parents should not be in charge of deciding. > [@](#): > > How about the local Child Welfare authorities? If there’s some evidence of abusive tendencies, let’s have an investigation or record of it. Let’s not rely on the fear of a teenager who clearly knows she did something her parents would consider wrong, nor on her willingness to exaggerate reasonable parental discipline into actual abuse. Or we could live in the real world. The foster care system is the most fucked up system in America. Children that are in it are far less likely to finish school and far more likely to commit crimes and get in to real trouble. This is the system that tells foster parents that it is okay to stop supporting your foster child at age 18- even if they are halfway through their senior year in high school. Then these kids will live the rest of their life without _any_ family, not even their brothers and sisters who will likely be separated and bounced between countless foster homes alone for the rest of their childhoods. The sad truth is that by the time you are in your later teens, it is often a better bet to stick with your abusive family, try to protect your siblings, and finish school. > [@](#): > > I disagree. The child is afraid of being disciplined. It is never pleasant to be told you’ve done wrong, it’s never pleasant to deal with parental disapproval of one’s actions, and it’s never pleasant to be punished. This does not, in the large majority of circumstances, constitute abuse, but I have little doubt that in the mind of a confused and frightened teenager, it will be thought of as such. And it is _never pleasant to be pregnant when you don’t want to be!_ I promise you that no pregnant kid that wants an abortion would be totally cool with having a kid except for the fact that their parents would yell at them. Most people seeking abortions are seeking abortions primarily because they do not want to be pregnant. And yes, even notification is too much. It is perfectly legal to have your child picked up from school by a [juvenile escort](http://www.siinvestigations.com/Juvenile_Transport/juvenile_transport.html), handcuffed with no explanation, put on a plane, and transported to an offshore private prison calling itself a “school for troubled teens” where they are forced to do stuff like stand with their nose to a wall for twelve hours straight. Frankly I support every kid that thinks that may happen to them doing whatever it takes to make sure it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Be that as it may, we draw a line in our society, based on chronological age, for what one is legally allowed to do. We don’t consider them mature enough to enter into a contractual agreement, even if they are not “giggling idiots” - no difference between 3 and 17. And 99% of kids never get in a situation where they want or need to get into a contractual agreement. We base our laws on what their effects will be. There is a reason why you can’t drink until you are 21 but you can buy cigarettes at 18. There is a reason why you can be legally left at home alone after age 11, but you can’t rent a hotel room until you are 18. There is a reason why you can’t get a job until you are 14, and you can’t drive until you are 16. There is a reason you can’t be president until you are 35. There are countless legal age milestones you make besides legal emancipation. Few of these have to do with estimations about people’s judgments, but are rather very practical matters. > [@](#): > > If you wish to argue that there should be some other line drawn for pregnancy decisions, I’d be willing to hear the argument for that, but I certainly don’t think that the ability to get pregnant (or to impregnate, for that matter, but males are kind of moot to this discussion) indicates some improved judgment ability. We aren’t basing it on improved judgment. We are basing it on what is best for the child. While the idea that parents know whats best for the child in most cases is weighted in, it doesn’t outweigh the enormity of someone being able to saddle you with a burden that will never go away for the rest of your life against your will. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/132 "2005-12-16T11:28:16Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > They can believe it’s a big moral decision, but it’s not. It’s her body, and a lump of flesh - there aren’t any major moral issues there. Having an abortion is no more morally important than having a wart removed. Like I said, it’s _emotionally_ important, but not morally. There’s nothing there to have moral issues _about_; morality requires a dispute between two people. Guess I wasn’t clear enough - where you’re definitely wrong is > [@](#): > > except in the minds of anti-choice true believers ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/133 "2005-12-16T12:59:50Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Let’s have a show of hand here. How women here made the decision as teenagers that if you got pregnant you would abort, and have later come to realise as adults that that would not have been the best plan for you at the time? > > Anyone? The two women (that I personally know of) who had abortions both regret it to certain extents. I do not think it wise for anyone to generalize from experience on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/134 "2005-12-16T13:13:00Z")
How do people here feel about – prior notification laws, in which parents told about the abortion before it happens and have a chance to discuss it with the child before she makes a decision. – notification laws, in which parents are at least told that the child has already had an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/135 "2005-12-16T13:47:12Z")
> [@furt](#): > > How do people here feel about > > – prior notification laws, in which parents told about the abortion before it happens and have a chance to discuss it with the child before she makes a decision. Unacceptable to me. They allow for parental coercion or worse. > [@](#): > > – notification laws, in which parents are at least told that the child has already had an abortion. Very grey area for me. The deed is done and can’t be reversed. The girl must have at least the option of refusing notification if her parents are abusive. Otherwise, I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/136 "2005-12-16T15:14:54Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Let’s have a show of hand here. How women here made the decision as teenagers that if you got pregnant you would abort, and have later come to realise as adults that that would not have been the best plan for you at the time? > > Anyone? You mean only Dopers? If other opinions count, [I can think of one.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/06/17/national1410EDT0606.DTL) > [@](#): > > There are many examples where parents do not get to make important choices and may never even know those choices are being made. Children don’t need parental permission to choose their classes, which determines if they will go to college or not. Few parents could even tell you when their kids did the actual signing up Wrong there too. I signed the forms for my son’s classes for next year day before yesterday. And [there are plenty of other examples](http://www.thebody.com/kaiser/2003/sep10_03/parents_sex_ed.html) [if you need them.](http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:vKpeVEzG9y8J:scimath.unl.edu/EDU/images/ASA%2520Survey%2520Directions.pdf+parental+consent+classes+&hl=en) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/137 "2005-12-16T15:19:29Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I’m not sure about that at all. Do you have children? My daughter’s crises certainly \*feel \* like crises to me, and I’m not one tiny bit detached when it comes to things that affect her. And this is an excellent point. A parent might very well _feel_ that a daughter’s problem is his or her own problem and treat it as such. But, really, it is _not_ the parent’s problem and that’s why the parent should not be permitted to overrule the daughter’s decision. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/138 "2005-12-16T16:28:57Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And this is an excellent point. A parent might very well _feel_ that a daughter’s problem is his or her own problem and treat it as such. But, really, it is _not_ the parent’s problem and that’s why the parent should not be permitted to overrule the daughter’s decision. Exactly. As a parent, I certainly have my daughter’s best interests in mind. And I want her to do what I think is best for her. But what if it’s not what she wants? And I’ll take it a step further… if my daughter has a baby, it \*\*is \*\* my problem, because I would never allow my young daughter or my grandchild to need for anything. If she has an abortion, to my knowledge or not, that’s really \*\*not \*\* my problem in quite the same way, is it? I’m not doing a dance of joy, but our lives continue on much as they were before. And so, all things considered, I feel that an abortion is the best choice not only for her, but for me, and that is what I would recommend that she do. Is that selfish? Of course. Am I unique in my thinking? I’d be stunned. Of course, I personally wouldn’t \*\*insist \*\* that she have an abortion. But if you’re under the impression that no one would, I think you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/139 "2005-12-16T20:17:06Z")
> [@](#): > > **SaintCad** said: > Thus if a girl engages in sexual intercourse, she is opening up herself to a variety of consequences, namely pregnancy and STD’s. If she has sex, she must be prepared for consequences. And part of that is deciding which option you will exercise if an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy happens: adoption, abortion, or motherhood. > [@](#): > > **SaintCad** said: > Is this an acceptable compromise or do you still advocate abortions on demand for 14 year-olds? So you want to tell a girl who is afraid to tell her father about it that she has to face a judge? Why can’t we leave this between the patient and her doctor, where medical decisions such as these belong? Are you hoping she won’t have it in her to either tell her father or go to a judge (which is pretty likely) and that will lead to birth by default? Cause that’s how it sounds to me. And also, what if her parents disagree? Her mother wants to allow the abortion, and her father will not consent. What happens then? > [@](#): > > **cmkeller** said: > The fact that she will be most heavily affected by this choice does not instantly give her the maturity or wisdom to consider her choosing to be informed. The very fact that she is the one who will be most heavily affected means that her say should count for everything. No one else will have to live with the decision the way she does, and so the decision should be hers. > [@](#): > > **furt** said: > – prior notification laws, in which parents told about the abortion before it happens and have a chance to discuss it with the child before she makes a decision. So that they can use that ‘discussion’ to pressure her until she does exactly what they want? Oh hell no. > [@](#): > > – notification laws, in which parents are at least told that the child has already had an abortion. Once it is over and done there is no reason for them to know that it happened at all. There is no good that could come of someone else telling them. If she needs to, and wants to, she will. Otherwise, all the busybodies in government and anti-choice groups should learn to let sleeping dogs lie. > [@](#): > > **Shodan** said: > Wrong there too. I signed the forms for my son’s classes for next year day before yesterday. And there are plenty of other examples if you need them. My parents never signed any of those class scheduling things. I filled out what classes I wanted on the request sheet and turned it in. Then I got a schedule with those classes on it. I got my driver’s license at 16 years old without one peep from my parents. All I needed was a licensed driver 18+ to sit in the passenger seat. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517/140 "2005-12-16T22:39:35Z")
Time to stun the world: I am with **catsix** all the way on this one. > [@catsix](#): > > And part of that is deciding which option you will exercise if an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy happens: adoption, abortion, or motherhood. ExACTly. Why is it that the only decision seen as “taking responsibility for one’s actions” as it applies to a pregnant teen is having the baby? Terminating a pregnancy is also taking responsibility for one’s actions. It involves evaluation of the situation and making a decision based on what is best for the persons involved. By which I mean the _two_ parties which caused the pregnancy. It’s a very difficult decision to make and then to follow through with either way. It isn’t as if girls just run down to the clinic every month after a heavy few weeks of partying on their backs, despite what the propogandists would have everyone believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-so-what-is-the-argument-for-parental-consent/335517.md?page=8)