# Okay to ask guest to leave their guns at home? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226 "2009-11-20T00:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/341 "2009-11-22T19:32:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **jtgain** , no one said you had to leave it at home – just not bring it into the house. Read the thread again. I guess we need some clarification of that. The OP stated back on page 1 that leaving it in the car wasn’t an option for whatever reason. Either carry, or leave it at home. Yet others have included the possibility of leaving it in the car. Obviously, if the guest can leave it in his car it is far less of an imposition. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/342 "2009-11-22T19:41:08Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > No, just too obscure. WTF? Neville Chamberlain, 30 September, 1938, although I was surprised to learn I was mis-paraphrasing his [Peace for our Time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time) speech. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/343 "2009-11-22T19:57:41Z")
Oh I give up. It’s completely pointless to debate this with someone who is so unwilling to realize the microscopic risk that a person properly carrying a concealed weapon poses. You can dream up of all the crazy scenarios where a kid would somehow discover and obtain a concealed firearm from someone, but that’s all they are – dreams. It simply doesn’t happen. The examples you gave, of a kid grabbing a gun from an unattended purse and a guy who was asleep are completely and utterly irrelevant because they don’t happen _if_ a person is carrying their concealed weapon properly and responsibly. The kid has a much bigger risk choking on a turkey bone, but like I’ve said a dozen times before, it’s still your decision to allow or disallow my firearm in your house. I’ve never debated that. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/344 "2009-11-22T20:04:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, you _can’t_ speak for other concealed weapon carriers, but I have yet to meet one that didn’t make the exact same claim as yours. > So tell us-what is so special about _you_ as opposed to everyone else, and if you are not special, are you saying that we should accept all the other owners claims of being incapable of making mistakes? > Are you the Only True Scotsman? What’s so “special” about me is that I haven’t made a mistake yet, so what else do we have to go on? Gun mistakes don’t just happen, they require negligence. And until I make a negligent error, I guess you would just have to take my word that I’m responsible, since there’s really no other way of determining such a thing. It doesn’t take a genius to see that someone leaving a firearm in their unattended purse is a stupid thing to do. So is falling asleep with guns that are accessible to others. Since I’ve done neither of those things and don’t have kids running around my house, I’d say I’m much more responsible than either of those individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/345 "2009-11-22T20:15:17Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Ummm, Did you actually read YOUR own post, or are you changing what you so very clearly previously said? If YOUR post, post 286, what YOU wrote, is incorrect, then please correct it. I can only respond to what YOU clearly said. If you want to change what you said, then please make it clear what you are changing. **Susann** , it looks like you edited **Lamia** ’s quote. We ask that users don’t alter quotes inside the quote tags, so please don’t do this again. I restored the original full text of post 286. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/346 "2009-11-22T21:39:15Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > What’s so “special” about me is that I haven’t made a mistake yet, so what else do we have to go on? Gun mistakes don’t just happen, they require negligence. And until I make a negligent error, I guess you would just have to take my word that I’m responsible, since there’s really no other way of determining such a thing. It doesn’t take a genius to see that someone leaving a firearm in their unattended purse is a stupid thing to do. So is falling asleep with guns that are accessible to others. Since I’ve done neither of those things and don’t have kids running around my house, I’d say I’m much more responsible than either of those individuals. [Celebrity News | Entertainment News | TMZ.com](http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php) Over 500 kids get killed every year from firearms. Do you think it was a second or third time or was it the first time a mistake was made. It is not the kind of thing that happens several times in a family. Every one says I am a responsible gun owner and a mistake was made. I don’t recall any saying we just leave loaded guns laying around the house all the time. Kids will be kids. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/347 "2009-11-22T21:41:56Z")
**jtgain** and **BrandonR** , if you don’t know of at least one gun owner who you personally wouldn’t trust with the gun, then you clearly don’t know many gun owners, and that’s all I’m going to say. [QUOTE=Freudian Slit] This isn’t the 17th century where there is no centralized police and highwaymen and marauders roam the land. What exactly do we need guns to protect us from? [/QUOTE] As I said earlier in the thread, I could make a case for wanting one at thanksgiving because my uncle’s neighbors have vicious, poorly-trained, escape-prone dogs. Note, I don’t carry anything to Thanksgiving except my shotgun for recreational target shooting that afternoon, but I could make a case for dealing with known dangerous canines in the yard. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/348 "2009-11-22T21:44:32Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Celebrity News | Entertainment News | TMZ.com](http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php) Over 500 kids get killed every year from firearms. Do you think it was a second or third time or was it the first time a mistake was made. It is not the kind of thing that happens several times in a family. Every one says I am a responsible gun owner and a mistake was made. I don’t recall any saying we just leave loaded guns laying around the house all the time. Kids will be kids. There are a surprisingly large number of gun owners who do that kind of thing–I think, actually, we even have a doper who prefers to have loaded guns easily accessible in the house and relies on training for preventing his children playing with them. Perversely, I can name a few families (redneck past, etc) who have had multiple stupid preventable accidents happen with more than one of their children, too. Usually it’s ATVs rather than guns, but I know at least one case where two separate kids in the same family had firearm accidents. Fellow gun owners, the point a lot of these folks are trying to make is that there are a lot of stupid fucks out there with guns, and if people need to keep them out of the house to be comfortable, it’s their house and basic politeness and respect says you respect their right to keep their property the way they want it. If that means a friendship ends because you’re feeling personally judged, that’s fine–I get the feeling a lot of people who would ban guns either aren’t making any judgment calls on you personally but making a blanket ban to make things easier. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/349 "2009-11-22T22:14:58Z")
I have to say I’m pretty speechless. Some of you folks need a mental readjustment cos you’re just not right in the head. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/350 "2009-11-22T22:28:58Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > And until I make a negligent error… …you’re a negligent error waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/351 "2009-11-22T22:42:51Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Fellow gun owners, the point a lot of these folks are trying to make is that there are a lot of stupid fucks out there with guns, and if people need to keep them out of the house to be comfortable, it’s their house and basic politeness and respect says you respect their right to keep their property the way they want it. If that means a friendship ends because you’re feeling personally judged, that’s fine–I get the feeling a lot of people who would ban guns either aren’t making any judgment calls on you personally but making a blanket ban to make things easier. +1, rinse, repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/352 "2009-11-22T22:44:33Z")
Well, I’m glad that’s settled. What’s the next topic? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/353 "2009-11-22T22:58:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, I’m glad that’s settled. What’s the next topic? 😉 Should fetuses have guns? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/354 "2009-11-22T23:11:50Z")
Not until the third trimester. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/355 "2009-11-23T00:22:55Z")
Sheessss. Everyone that I know has at the very least a rifle and or shotgun at home. That’s a given around here. I don’t carry. But listening to Argents and jtgain’s unsupportable arguments. I just might start. Face it guys. Being asked to not carry in a hosts home is not a ‘pussyfication’ of the host. And how DARE you **Argent** suggest such a thing. I’ll show you a ‘pussy’ **Argent**. It’s the so called man that is afraid to go anywhere without his gun. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/356 "2009-11-23T00:40:57Z")
If your host was a gang leader, a drug cartel kingpin, a mafia Don or James Bond going to their house armed probably makes sense. Basically people who you know have other people actively trying to kill then and are unconcerned about bystanders…not to mention the other guests of your host might be deemed dangerous to you as well. Barring those rather narrow circumstances there is just no good reason to come armed with a gun as a guest in someone else’s house. If you are truly so fearful for your safety at someone else’s home it is best you just stay locked in your bunker preparing for the impending zombie apocalypse anyway. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/357 "2009-11-23T02:36:33Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > For a person to want to invade a crowded home on Thanksgiving, I think they have more nefarious plans than just taking some wallets. Well yeah, and if you wanna say that, then they are probably going to come sufficiently prepared with firepower to achieve their aims - so now you have the ok corral happening in your house, not a happy thought. There are countless studies floating around about how stress affects accuracy and perception when firing a gun - just google police shootings to get a picture, it seems that all those in this thread that wanna carry are a combination Jason Bourne, Rambo and that fellah from 24, that can easily, qucikly and effectively put the smackdown on a criminal in short order at anytime. > [@BrandonR](#): > > Here’s a fun thought experiment. Would you feel safer knowing it was a police officer who has the concealed weapon rather than a friend? Why? I’ve seen just as many stories of incompetent officers with firearms as CCW holders, perhaps more so since CCW holders are already likely to be interested in guns and their proper usage while some [officers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_91jcFTbLE8) aren’t all that proficient with their gun to begin with. > > Again, I acknowledge that it’s the homeowner’s right to decline guns in their own home, I’m just trying to understand some of the irrational explanations of why. Frankly for me, if the subject were ever to come up (which considering where I live it won’t) it wouldn’t be because I was “scared” it would be more of a political statement that I don’t particularly believe in the need for Concealed Carry, what you do outside your home is your problem, but I can at least make the point in my own home. I also don’t beleive in religion, so I don’t allow “prayer” in my home, this is not because I am scared of it, but because I don’t like it. I do “pray” when I am in someone elses home as hey - when in rome and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/358 "2009-11-23T03:28:34Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Oh I give up. It’s completely pointless to debate this with someone who is so unwilling to realize the microscopic risk that a person properly carrying a concealed weapon poses. 1)Who would that person be? It’s certainly not me, so how about you debate me instead? 1. How did you ascertain what the risk is? What evidence you use in coming to this conclusion? I don’t believe anybody knows what the risk is, least of all you. 2. Who the hell are you to tell me what risks must be acceptable for me to enforce on my family in my own home? > [@](#): > > You can dream up of all the crazy scenarios where a kid would somehow discover and obtain a concealed firearm from someone, but that’s all they are – dreams. It simply doesn’t happen. No, they are not dreams, they have actually happened. We provided the references. Did you even bother to read them? > [@](#): > > The examples you gave, of a kid grabbing a gun from an unattended purse and a guy who was asleep are completely and utterly irrelevant because they don’t happen _if_ a person is carrying their concealed weapon properly and responsibly. And how do you know this? That’s right, because anybody whose weapon is grabbed by a kid doesn’t wear a kilt. Illogical, irrational nonsense. And I can prove it’s illogical irrational nonsense. > [@](#): > > The kid has a much bigger risk choking on a turkey bone… Right. And they are much more likely to drown in a pool than to shoot themselves with an unsecured firearm. So if you have a pool you’re obliged to have unsecured firearms lying around the house as well. This whole argument is ridiculous. It’s a total non sequitur. Just because A is more dangerous than B, that doesn’t mean that I’m obliged to multiply the risk by practicing both A and B. Brandon you are just going round and round in circles, presenting the same provably irrational and illogical arguments over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/359 "2009-11-23T03:33:23Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Sheessss. Everyone that I know has at the very least a rifle and or shotgun at home. That’s a given around here. > > I don’t carry. But listening to Argents and jtgain’s unsupportable arguments. I just might start. > > Face it guys. Being asked to not carry in a hosts home is not a ‘pussyfication’ of the host. And how DARE you **Argent** suggest such a thing. > > I’ll show you a ‘pussy’ **Argent**. It’s the so called man that is afraid to go anywhere without his gun. You and I used to me on good terms, or so I thought. Now you seem to have an axe to grind against me. What could you possibly have to gain by picking at me even after I said I was done debating this issue? Did I do something to offend you? If it makes any difference, I admitted several pages ago that “pussy” was too strong a word and that maybe I was overly harsh about it. If that’s not good enough for you, what is? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/360 "2009-11-23T03:45:34Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > 1. Who the hell are you to tell me what risks must be acceptable for me to enforce on my family in my own home? Sigh. For the 10th time in this thread, nobody is telling you anything about what to do in your home. If you want to insist that your guests be members of Handgun Control, Inc. as a condition of entry, that is perfectly acceptable. > [@Blake](#): > > Right. And they are much more likely to drown in a pool than to shoot themselves with an unsecured firearm. So if you have a pool you’re obliged to have unsecured firearms lying around the house as well. Now were are getting somewhere. You admit that having a pool is more of a risk to your kids than a gun. So, what if this discussion was about how we weren’t going over to Aunt Peggy’s house for Thanksgiving because she has a backyard pool? I think there would be universal derision at such a statement, and it would be correct. And then the argument would disintegrate into whether Aunt Peggy has a right to have a pool, or whether you have a right to decide where you go for Thanksgiving dinner. None of that is at issue. The question is whether it is reasonable, rationale, polite, mannerly, whatever, to ask a guest to leave his gun at home. I, and others, have argued that there is no rational reason to insist upon this because the risk posed by that guest carrying a gun is so small as to be near zero. Nobody has refuted this point as of yet. What people have said is, “Well, why does the person need to carry in the host’s home?” They don’t need to, but that’s not the question. The fact is that they usually carry a gun, and as a host, I should have a decent reason for asking them to stop doing something that poses no threat or problem to me. 1. They smoke. Well, I don’t allow that in my home. Feel free to go on the back porch. The rational reason for that doesn’t need to be debated. 2. They want booze and I’m a teetotaler. Could be many rational reasons for this: religious, recovering alcoholic, want kids shielded from that, etc. But with this gun issue, you are asking a guest to not do something that he usually does without providing anything resembling a rational reason for doing so. I consider that to be rude and unmannerly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226.md?page=19)