# Okay to ask guest to leave their guns at home? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226 "2009-11-20T00:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/141 "2009-11-21T00:59:10Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, this is what I was wondering–for a lot of people a gun is like a cell phone or a watch. Like, if I knew someone who hated mascara and didn’t want it in their house, I might just lie and say I didn’t have any if I had some in my bag and didn’t want to throw it out or whatever. And someone who felt that way about a phone or t shirt or watch or make up is a bit odd. But don’t you think it’s a bit bizarre that you see a gun as no more harmless than a cell phone? No, you’re not going to go on a shooting spree or have it accidentally go off, but it’s not like the people who do those things think they will either. And rationally, a gun is different. > [@norinew](#): > > See, right here is the sticking point for me, personally. It’s not that I don’t trust _you_ to handle your gun safely, it’s that I don’t know who I maybe _can’t_ trust to handle their gun safely. If I allow _you_ to bring your gun, how do I explain to Cousin Bob (who is half-crazy and prone to drinking too much) that I won’t allow _him_ to bring a gun? I am a gun owner. I have fairly drunken multi-day new years parties. MY guns are locked in a safe for the duration, obviously, but I have a few buddies who concealed-carry and who do not drink that I don’t fuss with. On the other hand, I have a friend who pulled out a knife and was brandishing it around drunkenly while insisting he was sober and perfectly safe. I told him he, personally, was not allowed to be armed in my home. He tried to make an issue of it not being a blanket ban, and I said “you brandished it while drunk, that’s an instant disqualification”. We’ll see if he shows up this year. My personal preference is to judge individually, but if you must make a blanket ban, I know I personally as a gun owner who occasionally carries that I’d be much happier if someone told me “look, I ban guns because of crazy Cousin Bob, I don’t want to offend him”–that way I can at least feel like it’s not a trust issue with me personally. Edit: > [@rooostra](#): > > If it is not too much of a hijack of the OP, I’m curious to know what gun owners’ stances are on the subject of alcohol use and carrying a gun. One reason I don’t own a gun is that I do like to drink to excess on occasion and don’t feel comfortable with the idea of potentially handling a gun while intoxicated. > If you are gonna go to a bar or party where you have a reasonably likely chance to drink to excess, do you carry? Fuck no. Carrying while intoxicated past, say, the sane driving limit (which for me as a 240lb man with a fast metabolism is one weak beer an hour max) is a complete no-no, and I’d think much less of someone who did it. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/142 "2009-11-21T02:19:28Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Asking him to leave the gun at home is saying you don’t trust him to be safe with it, which when you think about it is quite insulting. And bringing a deadly weapon into my home for self-defense is saying you don’t trust me to provide you with a safe environment, which every bit as insulting. It appears we are at an impasse. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/143 "2009-11-21T02:27:13Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But guns are scary. They are designed to be very destructive. I think it’s healthy to have a sense of fear of something that can do this much damage. Fear is an unreasoned and emotional response. It is healthy to have a sense of cautious respect for an item that can do damage; fear is a response that is beyond reason, i.e. the fear of harmless and useful spiders and snakes. Nonetheless, if the host is afraid of, or uncomfortable with, firearms, it is the bare minimum of courtesy to secure weapons before entering his or her house. One doesn’t need to be apologetic about it or otherwise excuse it, but demonstrating respect for the host’s concerns and values, reasonable or not, is the hallmark of a good guest. That, and not overstaying one’s welcome. I don’t think “less” of someone who has a fear of weapons (in the hands of trained, responsible owners) but I understand that many people do not have a positive experience with weapons, and often with good reason, as the extent of exposure most people have to firearms is via film and television, where they are poorly handled and portrayed even by the “good guys”. I don’t force the issue–what, really, is the point–and merely offer to introduce people to firearms if and when they express interest, and then with caution and repeated warnings about the degree of responsibility and respect required to handle firearms in a safe manner. > [@rooostra](#): > > If it is not too much of a hijack of the OP, I’m curious to know what gun owners’ stances are on the subject of alcohol use and carrying a gun. Firearms and mind altering substances of any kind are a bad combination, as can be attested to by William S. Burroughs. The same is true with firearms and strong emotions. If one was going to an event where one expected to consume more than a token amount of alcohol, one should not go armed, period. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/144 "2009-11-21T02:28:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Bit presumptuous for you to speak on behalf of intelligent people, isn’t it? \ From the Rules: > [@](#): > > …the basic rule is that you should attack what the other person says, not the other person. **RNATB** , don’t do it again. \ ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/145 "2009-11-21T02:31:57Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’ll repeat again: has this scenario ever come up anywhere besides on this forum? Has anyone, in real life, ever been asked to leave their (concealed) handgun at home? Has anyone, in real life, ever asked someone else to leave their (concealed) handgun at home? It hasn’t come up yet, but I certainly would. I have made a decision to not have guns in my home, if a friend would bring one into my home after being asked not to, not only would they not be invited back but we probably wouldn’t be friends anymore. I have handled and shot a number of different guns, grew up with them and come from a family with a pretty extensive military background. It’s not that I fear guns, it’s that I’ve chosen to have as limited contact with them as possible. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/146 "2009-11-21T03:05:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Bit presumptuous for you to speak on behalf of intelligent people, isn’t it? I think he was giving you the benefit of the doubt, with a gentle rebuke. ---
**Author:** ![trupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@trupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trupa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/147 "2009-11-21T04:17:22Z")
Regarding the fear of guns that has come up in this thread a couple of times, may I refer you to a recent thread in which I admitted I was [perplexed by the fear of guns.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536608) It was a useful learning experience for me. Some of the things I remember from it is that most people who fear guns are not very conversant with how they work. Most of what they know comes from fiction and newsmedia. How many times do these endless founts of knowledge report or depict a situation where “the gun just went off”? If I were in the same situation regarding power saws, I sure as all hell wouldn’t want them in my dining room. I would want them disconnected from any power source and locked away. I’m afraid of chain saws because I don’t know much about them and there’s this thing I vaguely heard about called kickback, where the saw seems to jump up into the user all of a sudden. Another point that struck me as a person afraid of heights is that, when I walk near the edge of a cliff, I know I’m not being sucked towards the edge, I know the ground won’t give way, and I know I can perfectly well stand on a curb or one side of a line painted on a gym floor. Knowing all this still doesn’t make me less scared. It’s a stupid irrational fear for which I am annoyed at myself, but it’s still real. There’s no reason for me to look down on a person who has the exact same thing for guns. Now, I kind of admire those who can stand with their toes dangling over the abyss, and I won’t yell at them, or call them names, I don’t think they’re going to jump. But you won’t catch me standing along side them. Gentleness and consideration in dealing with those around you will win the day, every time. (_Well, unless they’re trying to rob, kill or rape you. Then my money’s on good training, practise, trigger control, and .45 hollow points_) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/148 "2009-11-21T04:51:37Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Really? Personal insults are the best you can do? > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Wow. I didn’t think the content of your posts could get dumber, but I guess I assumed too much. Presented without comment. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/149 "2009-11-21T05:11:08Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Either of those sentiments makes me think less of a person. The latter is a little more easily excused by me because the social conditioning that most Americans go through, that guns are scary and evil and only to be used by movie heroes or criminals, is very tough to break out of, and it’s something that a lot of people are just raised with, the same way Americans in the South were raised with Jim Crow. The former is much more personally insulting to me - the idea that you don’t trust me to carry my weapon responsibly. Speaking of insulting… > [@norinew](#): > > Are these polite, mannerly people Granny is visiting? If not, what’s she doing there in the first place? But if so, polite, mannerly people would either make sure: A. Granny is escorted back to her car by a young, strong-looking person or B. A young, strong-looking person insists on going to get her car _for_ her and pull it up right in front of the house. > > If Granny is this weak/frail/elderly, her carrying a gun could actually be a hazard, as it could easily be removed from her possession by some punk bent on wrong-doing, and used against her. That and most likely, Granny probably wouldn’t be driving herself. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Do I still have to eat strawberries if I don’t like them? I don’t really see the big deal in saying, “No, thanks, I’m not hungry.” That and one might not want to say, “I’m sorry, I’m allergic to strawberries!” [sub]For example, if someone made tiramisu, I’d have to decline – I’m an epileptic, and nowadays I can no longer have caffeine, as it causes me to have seizures. Yet, I don’t want to have to tell my host this, and make them feel like assholes for making a dessert that could be harmful. That’s not right either. So I’ll just say, “No thank you.”[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/150 "2009-11-21T05:20:03Z")
> [@trupa](#): > > Gentleness and consideration in dealing with those around you will win the day, every time. > \*) No, no, no. _So now you’d better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing._ – Led Zeppelin Wonders if he could bring Mjolnir to the dinner party? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/151 "2009-11-21T06:04:00Z")
The OP’s scenario played out on a national scale between NZ and America back in the 80s. New Zealand politely requested that America not bring nuclear ARMED ships into our ports. America refused to “confirm or deny” whether particular ships were nuclear armed, hence American warships were not welcome in New Zealand waters. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/152 "2009-11-21T06:14:24Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Well, “pussy” might be too strong a word. But if I am a concealed-carrier and someone invites me to dinner and specifically requests that I not bring my pistol, he is saying to me one of two things. Either “I don’t trust you not to pull out that gun/properly secure it/whatever” - in other words, not believing in my capacity to responsibly carry the weapon, which is insulting to me - or “I think that the mere presence of a gun, an inanimate object, is scary and discomforting.” > > Either of those sentiments makes me think less of a person. The latter is a little more easily excused by me because the social conditioning that most Americans go through, that guns are scary and evil and only to be used by movie heroes or criminals, is very tough to break out of, and it’s something that a lot of people are just raised with, the same way Americans in the South were raised with Jim Crow. The former is much more personally insulting to me - the idea that you don’t trust me to carry my weapon responsibly. AT - there’s a lot of grey between the two statements. It could be a political standpoint that the home owner thinks that the would safer if all handguns were taken out of private hands, through to personal distaste of handguns, through to a belief that “being armed” and “family dinner” don’t mix. I am not afraid of guns, and have been shooting on occasion before, but I (personally) would rather not have someone carrying a gun in my house, not because I think the person is unsafe, or likely to go on a shooting spree, but merely because I don’t see the need. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/153 "2009-11-21T06:29:37Z")
When you get into this issue of “I don’t see the need,” the argument loses traction. You don’t see the need…so what? That’s enough of a problem for you that you would really ask someone in advance to not do it? Just because you don’t think they need to? Would you say the same thing about someone wearing a medallion of St. Anthony under his shirt or carrying a lucky bottle cap in his pocket? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/154 "2009-11-21T06:43:35Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/155 "2009-11-21T07:49:32Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > When you get into this issue of “I don’t see the need,” the argument loses traction. You don’t see the need…so what? That’s enough of a problem for you that you would really ask someone in advance to not do it? Just because you don’t think they need to? Would you say the same thing about someone wearing a medallion of St. Anthony under his shirt or carrying a lucky bottle cap in his pocket? I think the issue here is a combination of “I don’t see the need” mixed with a vague sense of disquiet about the action. Carrying a firearm is more akin to the behaviour in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=145428) than wearing a medal. I don’t object to or fear the behaviour in that thread either, but it just ain’t appropriate for the dinner table. Since I don’t see the need for it, then in my house I’m gonna ask you not to do it. I would consider it on par with you showing up wearing a bikini or any of a number of other actions that are perfectly legal and accaptable elsewhere, but not something I feel comfortable with at the dinner table in my house. And no, I don’t automatically trust you to be accept complete responsibility for the weapon you carry. For two reasons. Firstly experience tells me that there are vast numbers of people who didn’t responsibly carry a weapon. And you know what? Every single one of them would have told me that they carried responsibly. Maybe you do carry responsibly, but unless I know you very, very well, and have known you for a long time in all sorts of situations, I can’t know that. Maybe if your best friend had reservations on this issue you might have a right to be insulted, but not anybody else. Secondly, firearms are never perfectly safe. You should know that. They pose a real risk. There is always a non-zero probability that something can go wrong. No matter how careful you are, accidents can still happen. I would hope that you acknowledge that, because if you don’t then you are provably \*not \* carrying responsibly. You may consider this increased risk to yourself and your family acceptable, but why the heck do you get your nose out of joint because \*I \* don’t choose to accept that risk for me and my family? Jeez, do you also get insulted when people put on a seat belt when you are driving? After all, they are calling into question your ability to drive a car without injuring them. And so they bloody should. Nobody can drive a car or carry a firearm with an absolute certainty that no injuries will occur as a result. If you believe otherwise then you are demonstrably not accepting responsibility for the weapon you carry. Firearm accidents do happen. The fact that you seem to deny that they can happen to you is, quite frankly, terrifying. And if you aren’t denying that an accident could occur when you carry then you are admitting that you can’t take full responsibilty for your weapon. All you can do is take reasonable care. You can’t repair any damage that could potentially occur in the event of an accident. So why get your nose out of when somebody says they don’t want to take a risk that you yourself acknowledge exists? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/156 "2009-11-21T08:00:47Z")
The very same logic - the _very_ same logic - applies to the carrying of a firearm as to the wearing of a seatbelt. You probably won’t need it, but if you need it, you’ll really need it. Does nobody understand this but me? > [@](#): > > Secondly, firearms are never perfectly safe. You should know that. They pose a real risk. There is always a non-zero probability that something can go wrong. There’s always a non-zero probability that anything might happen. To bring this up is a bunch of hyperbole and poppycock. There’s a nonzero possibility that the chandelier might fall from the ceiling and smash my skull. There’s a nonzero possibility that a sinkhole might swallow up the house and kill me. There’s a nonzero possibility that I’ll set myself on fire with a candlestick. Sure, there’s a nonzero probability that someone carrying a concealed handgun might have an accident with it. There’s also a nonzero probability that the house might get robbed. Do you see where I’m going here? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/157 "2009-11-21T08:01:29Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > You don’t see the need…so what? That’s enough of a problem for you that you would really ask someone in advance to not do it? Just because you don’t think they need to? Would you say the same thing about someone wearing a medallion of St. Anthony under his shirt or carrying a lucky bottle cap in his pocket? But even in the hands of an irresponsible person, a St. Anthony medal or a lucky bottle cap doesn’t pose a serious risk of damage to life or limb. A gun, on the other hand, does. So I think **Blake** is spot on in saying that you shouldn’t be insulted because a host won’t assume that you’re responsible enough to bring a concealed gun into their house without posing a non-negligible risk to them. Pretty much all people who carry guns sincerely believe that they are sufficiently responsible to do so with no serious risk, but unfortunately there’s a minority of them who turn out to be wrong. You should not expect your host to automatically assume that you’re not in that minority. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/158 "2009-11-21T08:05:34Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Sure, there’s a nonzero probability that someone carrying a concealed handgun might have an accident with it. Again, I think you’re over-focusing on the claim that a totally responsible and conscientious gun carrier is extremely unlikely to have an accident with the gun. That’s quite true, but it’s not the point. The point is that there are some people who think, and say, that they’re totally responsible and conscientious gun carriers when in fact they aren’t. You should not expect your host to take your word for it that you’re not one of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/159 "2009-11-21T08:08:39Z")
OK. Well, I highly, _highly_ doubt that there’s any person on the planet who will know me well enough to invite me for dinner, but _not_ know me well enough to trust me with a handgun. If this situation applies to other people in this thread, then fine, do whatever you want to do. Think whatever you want to think. I personally am never going to be in this situation, ever. It is not going to happen. It is pure conjecture and hyperbole, the equivalent of dreaming up fictitious alternate universes and alien races or making up fantasy baseball teams. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226/160 "2009-11-21T08:12:10Z")
I would certainly observe the desires of the inviter BUT leaving a gun in an unattended car is a remarkably bad idea, car’s get broken into all the time and your gun will (probably) get traded for drugs very quickly and when YOUR gun is used illegally you ARE going to get a visit that you’d rather not get. Your gun is MUCH safer on you than stashed in a car. If someone felt that they had to make that demand of me I probably would not have a good time there anyway, I’d just decline the invite. Unclviny [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-ask-guest-to-leave-their-guns-at-home/518226.md?page=9)