I am a gun owner. I have fairly drunken multi-day new years parties. MY guns are locked in a safe for the duration, obviously, but I have a few buddies who concealed-carry and who do not drink that I don’t fuss with. On the other hand, I have a friend who pulled out a knife and was brandishing it around drunkenly while insisting he was sober and perfectly safe.
I told him he, personally, was not allowed to be armed in my home. He tried to make an issue of it not being a blanket ban, and I said “you brandished it while drunk, that’s an instant disqualification”. We’ll see if he shows up this year.
My personal preference is to judge individually, but if you must make a blanket ban, I know I personally as a gun owner who occasionally carries that I’d be much happier if someone told me “look, I ban guns because of crazy Cousin Bob, I don’t want to offend him”–that way I can at least feel like it’s not a trust issue with me personally.
Edit:
Fuck no. Carrying while intoxicated past, say, the sane driving limit (which for me as a 240lb man with a fast metabolism is one weak beer an hour max) is a complete no-no, and I’d think much less of someone who did it.
And bringing a deadly weapon into my home for self-defense is saying you don’t trust me to provide you with a safe environment, which every bit as insulting. It appears we are at an impasse.
Fear is an unreasoned and emotional response. It is healthy to have a sense of cautious respect for an item that can do damage; fear is a response that is beyond reason, i.e. the fear of harmless and useful spiders and snakes.
Nonetheless, if the host is afraid of, or uncomfortable with, firearms, it is the bare minimum of courtesy to secure weapons before entering his or her house. One doesn’t need to be apologetic about it or otherwise excuse it, but demonstrating respect for the host’s concerns and values, reasonable or not, is the hallmark of a good guest. That, and not overstaying one’s welcome.
I don’t think “less” of someone who has a fear of weapons (in the hands of trained, responsible owners) but I understand that many people do not have a positive experience with weapons, and often with good reason, as the extent of exposure most people have to firearms is via film and television, where they are poorly handled and portrayed even by the “good guys”. I don’t force the issue–what, really, is the point–and merely offer to introduce people to firearms if and when they express interest, and then with caution and repeated warnings about the degree of responsibility and respect required to handle firearms in a safe manner.
Firearms and mind altering substances of any kind are a bad combination, as can be attested to by William S. Burroughs. The same is true with firearms and strong emotions. If one was going to an event where one expected to consume more than a token amount of alcohol, one should not go armed, period.
It hasn’t come up yet, but I certainly would. I have made a decision to not have guns in my home, if a friend would bring one into my home after being asked not to, not only would they not be invited back but we probably wouldn’t be friends anymore.
I have handled and shot a number of different guns, grew up with them and come from a family with a pretty extensive military background. It’s not that I fear guns, it’s that I’ve chosen to have as limited contact with them as possible.
Regarding the fear of guns that has come up in this thread a couple of times, may I refer you to a recent thread in which I admitted I was perplexed by the fear of guns.
It was a useful learning experience for me. Some of the things I remember from it is that most people who fear guns are not very conversant with how they work. Most of what they know comes from fiction and newsmedia. How many times do these endless founts of knowledge report or depict a situation where “the gun just went off”? If I were in the same situation regarding power saws, I sure as all hell wouldn’t want them in my dining room. I would want them disconnected from any power source and locked away. I’m afraid of chain saws because I don’t know much about them and there’s this thing I vaguely heard about called kickback, where the saw seems to jump up into the user all of a sudden.
Another point that struck me as a person afraid of heights is that, when I walk near the edge of a cliff, I know I’m not being sucked towards the edge, I know the ground won’t give way, and I know I can perfectly well stand on a curb or one side of a line painted on a gym floor. Knowing all this still doesn’t make me less scared. It’s a stupid irrational fear for which I am annoyed at myself, but it’s still real. There’s no reason for me to look down on a person who has the exact same thing for guns. Now, I kind of admire those who can stand with their toes dangling over the abyss, and I won’t yell at them, or call them names, I don’t think they’re going to jump. But you won’t catch me standing along side them.
Gentleness and consideration in dealing with those around you will win the day, every time.
(Well, unless they’re trying to rob, kill or rape you. Then my money’s on good training, practise, trigger control, and .45 hollow points)
That and most likely, Granny probably wouldn’t be driving herself.
That and one might not want to say, “I’m sorry, I’m allergic to strawberries!”
[sub]For example, if someone made tiramisu, I’d have to decline – I’m an epileptic, and nowadays I can no longer have caffeine, as it causes me to have seizures. Yet, I don’t want to have to tell my host this, and make them feel like assholes for making a dessert that could be harmful. That’s not right either. So I’ll just say, “No thank you.”[/sub]
The OP’s scenario played out on a national scale between NZ and America back in the 80s.
New Zealand politely requested that America not bring nuclear ARMED ships into our ports. America refused to “confirm or deny” whether particular ships were nuclear armed, hence American warships were not welcome in New Zealand waters.
AT - there’s a lot of grey between the two statements. It could be a political standpoint that the home owner thinks that the would safer if all handguns were taken out of private hands, through to personal distaste of handguns, through to a belief that “being armed” and “family dinner” don’t mix.
I am not afraid of guns, and have been shooting on occasion before, but I (personally) would rather not have someone carrying a gun in my house, not because I think the person is unsafe, or likely to go on a shooting spree, but merely because I don’t see the need.
When you get into this issue of “I don’t see the need,” the argument loses traction. You don’t see the need…so what? That’s enough of a problem for you that you would really ask someone in advance to not do it? Just because you don’t think they need to? Would you say the same thing about someone wearing a medallion of St. Anthony under his shirt or carrying a lucky bottle cap in his pocket?
I think the issue here is a combination of “I don’t see the need” mixed with a vague sense of disquiet about the action.
Carrying a firearm is more akin to the behaviour in this thread than wearing a medal. I don’t object to or fear the behaviour in that thread either, but it just ain’t appropriate for the dinner table. Since I don’t see the need for it, then in my house I’m gonna ask you not to do it. I would consider it on par with you showing up wearing a bikini or any of a number of other actions that are perfectly legal and accaptable elsewhere, but not something I feel comfortable with at the dinner table in my house.
And no, I don’t automatically trust you to be accept complete responsibility for the weapon you carry. For two reasons.
Firstly experience tells me that there are vast numbers of people who didn’t responsibly carry a weapon. And you know what? Every single one of them would have told me that they carried responsibly. Maybe you do carry responsibly, but unless I know you very, very well, and have known you for a long time in all sorts of situations, I can’t know that. Maybe if your best friend had reservations on this issue you might have a right to be insulted, but not anybody else.
Secondly, firearms are never perfectly safe. You should know that. They pose a real risk. There is always a non-zero probability that something can go wrong. No matter how careful you are, accidents can still happen. I would hope that you acknowledge that, because if you don’t then you are provably *not * carrying responsibly. You may consider this increased risk to yourself and your family acceptable, but why the heck do you get your nose out of joint because *I * don’t choose to accept that risk for me and my family?
Jeez, do you also get insulted when people put on a seat belt when you are driving? After all, they are calling into question your ability to drive a car without injuring them. And so they bloody should. Nobody can drive a car or carry a firearm with an absolute certainty that no injuries will occur as a result. If you believe otherwise then you are demonstrably not accepting responsibility for the weapon you carry. Firearm accidents do happen. The fact that you seem to deny that they can happen to you is, quite frankly, terrifying.
And if you aren’t denying that an accident could occur when you carry then you are admitting that you can’t take full responsibilty for your weapon. All you can do is take reasonable care. You can’t repair any damage that could potentially occur in the event of an accident. So why get your nose out of when somebody says they don’t want to take a risk that you yourself acknowledge exists?
The very same logic - the very same logic - applies to the carrying of a firearm as to the wearing of a seatbelt. You probably won’t need it, but if you need it, you’ll really need it. Does nobody understand this but me?
There’s always a non-zero probability that anything might happen. To bring this up is a bunch of hyperbole and poppycock. There’s a nonzero possibility that the chandelier might fall from the ceiling and smash my skull. There’s a nonzero possibility that a sinkhole might swallow up the house and kill me. There’s a nonzero possibility that I’ll set myself on fire with a candlestick.
Sure, there’s a nonzero probability that someone carrying a concealed handgun might have an accident with it. There’s also a nonzero probability that the house might get robbed. Do you see where I’m going here?
But even in the hands of an irresponsible person, a St. Anthony medal or a lucky bottle cap doesn’t pose a serious risk of damage to life or limb. A gun, on the other hand, does.
So I think Blake is spot on in saying that you shouldn’t be insulted because a host won’t assume that you’re responsible enough to bring a concealed gun into their house without posing a non-negligible risk to them. Pretty much all people who carry guns sincerely believe that they are sufficiently responsible to do so with no serious risk, but unfortunately there’s a minority of them who turn out to be wrong. You should not expect your host to automatically assume that you’re not in that minority.
Again, I think you’re over-focusing on the claim that a totally responsible and conscientious gun carrier is extremely unlikely to have an accident with the gun. That’s quite true, but it’s not the point.
The point is that there are some people who think, and say, that they’re totally responsible and conscientious gun carriers when in fact they aren’t. You should not expect your host to take your word for it that you’re not one of those people.
OK. Well, I highly, highly doubt that there’s any person on the planet who will know me well enough to invite me for dinner, but not know me well enough to trust me with a handgun. If this situation applies to other people in this thread, then fine, do whatever you want to do. Think whatever you want to think. I personally am never going to be in this situation, ever. It is not going to happen. It is pure conjecture and hyperbole, the equivalent of dreaming up fictitious alternate universes and alien races or making up fantasy baseball teams.
I would certainly observe the desires of the inviter
BUT
leaving a gun in an unattended car is a remarkably bad idea, car’s get broken into all the time and your gun will (probably) get traded for drugs very quickly and when YOUR gun is used illegally you ARE going to get a visit that you’d rather not get.
Your gun is MUCH safer on you than stashed in a car.
If someone felt that they had to make that demand of me I probably would not have a good time there anyway, I’d just decline the invite.