# Okay to create a subhuman species ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683 "2008-11-20T18:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/1 "2008-11-20T18:34:20Z")
Engineered Genetics Inc. have created a subhuman species incorporating the genes of a human, bonobo and a dog. This species exhibits an IQ sufficient to communicate with humans orally, and easily trained in hygiene. It also exhibits a behavioral instinct that wants to please humans. In appearance the body looks like four foot human with an even smaller head and protruding muzzle. EG has genetically prevented the development of sexual organs in order to monopolize the market and prevent socially disturbing events. Any ethical problems with this scenario ? It should cut labour costs in the economy, Environmentally sound, replacing energy use in many appliances. I’m afraid that we are eventually going to get to this point. My sense is that society is slowly stripping away taboos like fetal stem cell research (which I’m not opposed to) and I just don’t know where we hit the wall on playing with bio- engineering. ---
**Author:** ![bobthebuilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobthebuilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobthebuilder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/2 "2008-11-20T18:41:53Z")
I dont question the creation of such species in general. I do question how they would be treated. If the creature is sentient then it should be free to live as it pleases, even if it is not as intelligent as us. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/3 "2008-11-20T18:43:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Any ethical problems with this scenario ? Well, uhm, yeah! Of course there are. > [@](#): > > I’m afraid that we are eventually going to get to this point. My sense is that society is slowly stripping away taboos like fetal stem cell research (which I’m not opposed to) and I just don’t know where we hit the wall on playing with bio- engineering. We may well get there in a hundred years or so. I don’t think we should be making almost-human life forms, but someone somewhere will. We should think about how to deal with it when it happens, as much as how to prevent it from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/4 "2008-11-20T18:49:51Z")
The labor unions would object, but other than that, I don’t see a big problem with it. It seems like that would be a model of the “natural slave” that the ancient philosophers were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/5 "2008-11-20T18:56:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We should think about how to deal with it when it happens, as much as how to prevent it from happening. Why would we want to prevent it from happening? You’ve got a creature that is intelligent enough and dexterous enough to be put to work at manual labor, and instinctively wants to obey and please us. ---
**Author:** ![bobthebuilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobthebuilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobthebuilder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/6 "2008-11-20T19:09:37Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Why would we want to prevent it from happening? You’ve got a creature that is intelligent enough and dexterous enough to be put to work at manual labor, and instinctively wants to obey and please us. is it ethically right? Would it be okay to take the mentally hadicapped who might still be able to dig ditches and force them to be our slaves? How would this really be any different? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/7 "2008-11-20T19:16:26Z")
I think the moment you used human genes you didn’t elevate a lower order animal, you diminished a human, which you shouldn’t have a right to do. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/8 "2008-11-20T19:17:16Z")
> [@bobthebuilder](#): > > is it ethically right? > Would it be okay to take the mentally hadicapped who might still be able to dig ditches and force them to be our slaves? How would this really be any different? The difference would be that these beings were created by us for the sole purpose of helping our civilization. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/9 "2008-11-20T19:17:25Z")
I think creating a species of almost-humans raises ethical problems that we probably shouldn’t tackle until we figure out what to do with elephants, dolphins, and bonobos. Hell, we can’t even agree on chickens? **bobthebuilder** , What if they really, really, enjoyed digging ditches? I’m not sure I would have a problem with that. I _would_ have a problem with deliberately creating mentally handicapped people to dig ditches though. That’s what robots are for. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/10 "2008-11-20T19:18:21Z")
> [@bobthebuilder](#): > > is it ethically right? > Would it be okay to take the mentally hadicapped who might still be able to dig ditches and force them to be our slaves? How would this really be any different? I could see how it might be OK since you’re not forcing them to be slaves, they want (instinctively) to do work for us. Similar to how my dog loves to chase squirrels – if I employed him to chase squirrels, he would happily do it for free (he’s part beagle, so he’s bred, I guess, to chase small animals). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/11 "2008-11-20T19:18:50Z")
> [@bobthebuilder](#): > > is it ethically right? > Would it be okay to take the mentally hadicapped who might still be able to dig ditches and force them to be our slaves? How would this really be any different? Nearby when I was growing up, there was a mentally handicapped man who lived in a foster home who happily performed all kinds of menial chores on a hobby farm. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/12 "2008-11-20T19:19:46Z")
Great idea! I think that the only think it needs is a catchy name for the creatures. I’m thinking “Morlocks” for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/13 "2008-11-20T19:29:28Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Engineered Genetics Inc. have created a subhuman species incorporating the genes of a human, bonobo and a dog. > > This species exhibits an IQ sufficient to communicate with humans orally, and easily trained in hygiene. > > It also exhibits a behavioral instinct that wants to please humans. > > In appearance the body looks like four foot human with an even smaller head and protruding muzzle. > > EG has genetically prevented the development of sexual organs in order to monopolize the market and prevent socially disturbing events. > > Any ethical problems with this scenario ? > > It should cut labour costs in the economy, > Environmentally sound, replacing energy use in many appliances. > > I’m afraid that we are eventually going to get to this point. My sense is that society is slowly stripping away taboos like fetal stem cell research (which I’m not opposed to) and I just don’t know where we hit the wall on playing with bio- engineering. Nope. I have a big problem with this. Not with engineering and gestating the creature, mind, but doing so for the sole purpose of creating a cheap labor force. I’m all for crossing genetic strains to see what we get. I’m totally against abusing the result. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/14 "2008-11-20T19:30:03Z")
How much would these things cost? Would they be privately owned on a household to household basis, or perhaps owned by the government and sent to do certain tasks around the community? What do they eat? Could I beat mine with sticks and a swift backhand every now and then? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/15 "2008-11-20T19:30:25Z")
Did we learn nothing from watching _The Planet of the Apes_? Bad idea. And damned inconvenient when the “subhumans” rebel and torch the planet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/16 "2008-11-20T19:47:10Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Nope. I have a big problem with this. Not with engineering and gestating the creature, mind, but doing so for the sole purpose of creating a cheap labor force. I’m all for crossing genetic strains to see what we get. I’m totally against abusing the result. So you are okay with producing this creature but not with the “abuse”. Given that you are okay with the research, are you confident that the abuse can be prevented by future generations? If not, would you not be partially responsible by not speaking out against this research ? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/17 "2008-11-20T20:06:09Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So you are okay with producing this creature but not with the “abuse”. Given that you are okay with the research, are you confident that the abuse can be prevented by future generations? If not, would you not be partially responsible by not speaking out against this research ? Yes, I am confident abuse can be prevented, as much as abuse of mentally deficient people is prevented today. Let me be clear. I’m not for mass production of mentally deficient and willingly maliable creatures. I’m for scientific progress, education, and the expansion of humanity’s knowledge database. Creation (and that’s what this would be) of such creatures in a very finite number of, say, less than five, should be done solely to achieve these goals. They should not be allowed to interract with society, but should be able to live their somewhat restricted lives in relative comfort. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/18 "2008-11-20T20:07:17Z")
Well, better to create a subhuman species than a superhuman species. (I for one welcome our new clone overlords. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/19 "2008-11-20T20:18:12Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Any ethical problems with this scenario ? Yes, millions of them. Slavery is still wrong if the slaves have been genetically manipulated to enjoy it. Forget _Planet of the Apes_, the OP has proposed scenario directly out of _Brave New World_. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683/20 "2008-11-20T20:38:29Z")
What if these creatures actually enjoyed helping us without being coerced? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/okay-to-create-a-subhuman-species/473683.md?page=2)